NEWCASTLE - 2
Join Date: Feb 2005
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In respect of todays announcement by GSM of their new 07 service LPL-EWR then firstly I suppose it can be said that yet again another UK provincial airport has moved ahead of NCL in providing a regular direct US connection.
Secondly given that GSM are setting up against MAN in an attempt to attract pax., then given that GSM are looking to set up a base at DTV, could we forsee the day when the only NE direct connection to the US eminates from DTV
On a more serious note then how can such a service possibly be viable using two class 752's of which the predominant 'Y' is little more than "cattle class" with only 30" seat pitch. Also much NYC generated traffic and a major contribution to profitability is on through connections.
I for one would be horrified if the possibility of GSM moving into the NE would put off a larger carrier. It is completely incomprehensible to suggest that if AA or CO could not make go of NCL, then GSM with two "naff" configured 752's could, but then stranger things happen
Secondly given that GSM are setting up against MAN in an attempt to attract pax., then given that GSM are looking to set up a base at DTV, could we forsee the day when the only NE direct connection to the US eminates from DTV
On a more serious note then how can such a service possibly be viable using two class 752's of which the predominant 'Y' is little more than "cattle class" with only 30" seat pitch. Also much NYC generated traffic and a major contribution to profitability is on through connections.
I for one would be horrified if the possibility of GSM moving into the NE would put off a larger carrier. It is completely incomprehensible to suggest that if AA or CO could not make go of NCL, then GSM with two "naff" configured 752's could, but then stranger things happen
Join Date: Dec 2005
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A tad jealous Skyman771? Nobody ever thought that easyJet could operate a viable service every day from Liverpool to Nice when they started in 1997, it now operates 16 times a week, the rest at Liverpool is history....... and I hope an even brighter future with at least 14 new routes set to start over the next 10 months.
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Ametyst, I hope your airports expansion plans are not built on (Mersey) sand!
Jealous has nothing to do with this. It seems to me that all that is happening is that GSM is simply adding pressure to the Loco bubble in an area of the market that is largely untried & tested (at least since Laker days). It remains to be seen as to what the market is for the largely basic product that GSM are to offer. Personally I'd prefer a higher end product offering occasional discounts with an airline that has strong US links as a basis of expansion, rather than rest my hopes on the performance reliability of a couple of old 752's offering less than average levels of service & comfort, focusing on NYC as the 'end product'...but then perhaps that's what market research has indicated is appropriate for you.
Jealous has nothing to do with this. It seems to me that all that is happening is that GSM is simply adding pressure to the Loco bubble in an area of the market that is largely untried & tested (at least since Laker days). It remains to be seen as to what the market is for the largely basic product that GSM are to offer. Personally I'd prefer a higher end product offering occasional discounts with an airline that has strong US links as a basis of expansion, rather than rest my hopes on the performance reliability of a couple of old 752's offering less than average levels of service & comfort, focusing on NYC as the 'end product'...but then perhaps that's what market research has indicated is appropriate for you.
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Do you know the source of the 752's? No complaints I take it when AA were planning to use 752s between Newcastle and New York.
The basic product that you refer to is the same as that offered by American, Delta, Continental et al. Meals may be included pn their flights but drinks have to be paid for and the seat pitch is the same. GSM's '757s will seat 189 passengers (167 economy & 22 Business) which is exactly the same configuration that American use on their 757s. New York is a big enough market to stand alone without needing interline traffic.
The basic product that you refer to is the same as that offered by American, Delta, Continental et al. Meals may be included pn their flights but drinks have to be paid for and the seat pitch is the same. GSM's '757s will seat 189 passengers (167 economy & 22 Business) which is exactly the same configuration that American use on their 757s. New York is a big enough market to stand alone without needing interline traffic.
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Ametyst : I've no intention of prolonging this discussion with you as it really is going nowhere. What I will say is that you do need to look at your facts, the source of the seat pitch on GSM ecconomy is their own site & is stated as 30" if you were to check the other airlines that you quote then you will find that the seat pitch is considerably larger.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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GSM going to do New york from liverpool
Could we see New york from newcastle with them.
They have highlighted long haul routes for S07 out of NCL so maybe this will be one.
(i hope not would rather see CO or DL on the route but least we would have a direct NEW york)!!
Could we see New york from newcastle with them.
They have highlighted long haul routes for S07 out of NCL so maybe this will be one.
(i hope not would rather see CO or DL on the route but least we would have a direct NEW york)!!
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Hmmmm..........DTV... It's not hard to make a case for this, in theory at least, ie Peel airports, established relationship with GSM presumably leading to low fees. At this time GSM albeit with Scottish connections appear to be staying away from direct competition with NYC based flights at GLA, EDI & also at MAN. But the reality is that if there is genuine substance that AA could not see a workable business model from NCL with an established customer base, then GSM could presumably only succeed on an entirely different business model of largely tourist punters attracted by Loco fares i.e. a reduced frequency summer only service. I would have thought if GSM is to continue it's expansion on the same principles as LPL, the the obvious move for them would be DSA. After all this would attack the percieved market that LBA has for some time suggested exists.
Curiously I have heard no noises or comment from NCL on their own case following the LPL announcement, when clearly they are more than abreast of GSM developments.
Do they have a ace up their sleeve?
Curiously I have heard no noises or comment from NCL on their own case following the LPL announcement, when clearly they are more than abreast of GSM developments.
Do they have a ace up their sleeve?
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Rumours are going around that MME is going to get EWR from GSM for Summer 2007.
Could MME really get a New York service before NCL!!!!
NCL management needs to really be doing some talking to airlines if this is true.
Could MME really get a New York service before NCL!!!!
NCL management needs to really be doing some talking to airlines if this is true.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Originally Posted by HH6702
Rumours are going around that MME is going to get EWR from GSM for Summer 2007.
Could MME really get a New York service before NCL!!!!
NCL management needs to really be doing some talking to airlines if this is true.
Could MME really get a New York service before NCL!!!!
NCL management needs to really be doing some talking to airlines if this is true.
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A sad state of affairs if DTV got a NYC link before NCL. If I was an airline I would be very dubious of starting such a route from a fairly small airport with a smaller catchment area than NCL. NCL also has a better route structure, with potentially other loco routes used to connect with a loco US link. NCL has been crying out for so many years for a link to the US, but I do think that CO or similar would be more viable in terms of offering onward connections.
It seems that route expansion has gone awfully quiet at NCL of late. Either there is no more scope for growth and hence airlines are looking elsewhere or the airport management have an ace up their sleeve and we'll see another big expolsion in new routes happening soon. Lets hope it is the latter as NCL is the only UK major airport now without a link to NYC, with BRS and BFS etc already having one. It also seems that airports such as LBA, BRS are attracting new airlines and routes more frequently?
Maybe NCL has reached its capacity, lets face it at nights most parking stands are occupied and the departures area of the terminal is sometimes overcrowded and maybe airlines do not want to operate at off peak times.
It seems that route expansion has gone awfully quiet at NCL of late. Either there is no more scope for growth and hence airlines are looking elsewhere or the airport management have an ace up their sleeve and we'll see another big expolsion in new routes happening soon. Lets hope it is the latter as NCL is the only UK major airport now without a link to NYC, with BRS and BFS etc already having one. It also seems that airports such as LBA, BRS are attracting new airlines and routes more frequently?
Maybe NCL has reached its capacity, lets face it at nights most parking stands are occupied and the departures area of the terminal is sometimes overcrowded and maybe airlines do not want to operate at off peak times.
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Id say its all happened a little too fast for NCL. You're spot on when you say there is so little room.
Its time for NCL to take stock of what its got and forget about any new routes
Its time for NCL to take stock of what its got and forget about any new routes
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757 Seat Pitch
Originally Posted by skyman771
Ametyst : I've no intention of prolonging this discussion with you as it really is going nowhere. What I will say is that you do need to look at your facts, the source of the seat pitch on GSM ecconomy is their own site & is stated as 30" if you were to check the other airlines that you quote then you will find that the seat pitch is considerably larger.
American - 31"
Delta - 31"
Continental - 31" or 32"
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Originally Posted by RobT100
id love it, absolutely love it
Although, you are perhaps correct when you say Newcastle may have grown too quickly.
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I've made quite a few posts in the past relating to NYC flights, but what I certainly don't want to do is add any weight to the DTV - EWR rumour. Basically from what I can see it is totally unfounded, without any substance and is simply the result of circumstance !! WHERE has GSM even hinted that DTV is a runner ? One can make a story out of anything if one tries, particularly when everyone is desperate for news !
Lets just look at this sensibly, NYC is a fine tourist destination for a few months of the year, but when the weather turns it's not such a nice place & thus a significant number of transit pax to other US cities LAS, LAX or where ever are required to support such a service, both as added revenue for extra route miles & obviously to keep up the load factors. Now how can GSM possibly obtain this revenue, not to mention the hassle factor on those pax who do need to transit, probably realising too late that there is no point doing it on the cheap to EWR, when they realise that the additional connection cost, makes the whole deal more expensive than a through ticket via LHR, AMS or wherever !
Now on the issue of DTV itself, not a lot of infrastructure in place, not many hotels, transport not brilliant, but perhaps more significant, no significant route structure in place to attract any inbound passengers transitting on in Europe.
I would not be surprised that if the original rumour eminated from DTV / MME itself, trying desperately to put one over on it's more illustrious neighbour. If they can 'move' the geographic location of Durham (ie it is actually nearer NCL than MME) then perhaps there is a thought been sown that anything is possible.Lets face it any publicity is good publicity for them
Lets just look at this sensibly, NYC is a fine tourist destination for a few months of the year, but when the weather turns it's not such a nice place & thus a significant number of transit pax to other US cities LAS, LAX or where ever are required to support such a service, both as added revenue for extra route miles & obviously to keep up the load factors. Now how can GSM possibly obtain this revenue, not to mention the hassle factor on those pax who do need to transit, probably realising too late that there is no point doing it on the cheap to EWR, when they realise that the additional connection cost, makes the whole deal more expensive than a through ticket via LHR, AMS or wherever !
Now on the issue of DTV itself, not a lot of infrastructure in place, not many hotels, transport not brilliant, but perhaps more significant, no significant route structure in place to attract any inbound passengers transitting on in Europe.
I would not be surprised that if the original rumour eminated from DTV / MME itself, trying desperately to put one over on it's more illustrious neighbour. If they can 'move' the geographic location of Durham (ie it is actually nearer NCL than MME) then perhaps there is a thought been sown that anything is possible.Lets face it any publicity is good publicity for them
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Originally Posted by skyman771
I would not be surprised that if the original rumour eminated from DTV / MME itself, trying desperately to put one over on it's more illustrious neighbour. If they can 'move' the geographic location of Durham (ie it is actually nearer NCL than MME) then perhaps there is a thought been sown that anything is possible.Lets face it any publicity is good publicity for them
Seems someone doesn't like MME!!!
I would be very suprised indeed if the rumours started at MME, since certainly in ATC, we don't hear about routes until after they are announced to the public...I actually found out GSM were starting the TFS route by reading it on the airport website - we are still yet to receive official word in the Tower!!
However, with regards to your point on poor links to transit passengers from Europe - I agree. The only services really for this would be the KLC link through Amsterdam, and the BMA Heathrow and even then there aren't many services per day per route.
Not sure why Peel have such a good business relationship with GSM - they did all their route training for the new B767 flying GLA-MME-LPL-MME-GLA, and we all cynically thought that we were just helping opposition airports so I suppose it was a nice suprise to hear they were setting up a route from us. My guess is someone, somewhere has taken the fact that GSM are doing MME-TFS and thought up a ridiculous suggestion that we will get an EWR route. Don't get me wrong, it would be fabulous to gain such a prestigious route, but looking at it realistically I cannot see how it can happen because of the reasons Skyman has given (although I do not agree with the comment quoted at the top of this post!!!).
-HD-
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Maybe MME-LPL-EWR-LPL-MME ? Again not really sure where the rumour came from but a seasonal service may work if the price is right. Anyone know what the population distribution is like around MME compared to SNN? SNN sustain quite a few US routes albeit a split load with DUB so can't see why it couldn't work from MME. Well unless no PAX use it then well..... 