DUNDEE
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 10,588
Likes: 805
From: Northumberland
Porrohman got it spot on - with EDI, GLA and ABZ well established, where is the business case for substantially re-developing Dundee? How do you get your money back?
If Dundee can't attract pax who are prepared to pay a high enough premium for the convenience/time saving of not having to travel to another airport, it is going to need a public subsidy to retain airline services.
Also, how many of those people who don't know about Dundee airport regularly fly to London? There's a difference between the awareness of the general public and that of your target market.
If Dundee can't attract pax who are prepared to pay a high enough premium for the convenience/time saving of not having to travel to another airport, it is going to need a public subsidy to retain airline services.
Also, how many of those people who don't know about Dundee airport regularly fly to London? There's a difference between the awareness of the general public and that of your target market.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,056
Likes: 2
From: London
130,000 people in the whole of Perth & Kinross, 144,000 in Dundee - and a handful of villages
let's be optomistic and say a catchment of 300,00 and for a lot of those EDI and ABZ are more convenint
It just is too damn small without a MASSIVE subsidy - and who is going to pay that???
Not the good peopleof Dundee who have already voted with their feet - 70 pax a day for heavens sake...............
let's be optomistic and say a catchment of 300,00 and for a lot of those EDI and ABZ are more convenint
It just is too damn small without a MASSIVE subsidy - and who is going to pay that???
Not the good peopleof Dundee who have already voted with their feet - 70 pax a day for heavens sake...............
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
From: uk
Looking at the Cityjet website for April flights on the London City route there the following message:
How soon might another London route start?
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This route has been discontinued from April 2014. Please search for an earlier date
bb
Joined: Jan 2007
Aviation Qualifications: Non-Aircrew
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
From: Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning
Maybe BA Cityflyer with their E170s might be able to tempt Dundonians away from using EDI? They offer the best connections at LCY plus Avios points.
The E170 would almost certainly be more appealing than the D328. Apart from anything, Dundonians are more likely to notice a BA E170 with its striking livery and traditional twin jet profile flying in and out of their local airport than the rather nondescript and antiquated D328 which has a size, appearance and livery which probably leads any Dundonians who might happen to notice it to believe it is probably a private aircraft.
It would be a big gamble though given the lack of patronage for the existing and previous services from Dundee. Maybe if HIAL gave BA Cityflyer reduced or free landing charges for a time to try to get the service up and running and if the local newspapers, Chamber of Commerce and other business organisations gave it one last big push it could be made to work. I have my doubts though. Dundee Airport is just too close to EDI.
The E170 would almost certainly be more appealing than the D328. Apart from anything, Dundonians are more likely to notice a BA E170 with its striking livery and traditional twin jet profile flying in and out of their local airport than the rather nondescript and antiquated D328 which has a size, appearance and livery which probably leads any Dundonians who might happen to notice it to believe it is probably a private aircraft.
It would be a big gamble though given the lack of patronage for the existing and previous services from Dundee. Maybe if HIAL gave BA Cityflyer reduced or free landing charges for a time to try to get the service up and running and if the local newspapers, Chamber of Commerce and other business organisations gave it one last big push it could be made to work. I have my doubts though. Dundee Airport is just too close to EDI.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Springfield
given the lack of patronage for the existing and previous services from Dundee
Dundee London City is a great niche, and successful route, which has been shagged by external forces. FACT!
A Dundee London (not London City) route definitely still has great potential.
As for Cityflyer using Dundee or the runway getting extended etc etc...come on...dream on.
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
From: scotland
Why not a Dundee (EGPN) to London southend (EGMC) as alternative, it would give Dundee a link to London and the landing fees at London southend are better than the London city (EGLC) i know that the airport is further outside of London, but Dundee is small and any link to the capital would be helpful.
Fats
Fats
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 824
Likes: 12
From: Essex
SEN might just happen if Join! get off the ground. Read this article:
Join! offers hope for Dundee Airport - Local / News / The Evening Telegraph
Join! offers hope for Dundee Airport - Local / News / The Evening Telegraph
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Springfield
Just what Dundee doesn't need, a start up carrier. Flywoosh anyone?
The most relevant airlines for Dundee in the 'Tele's article were the ones that 'offered no specific comment on Dundee', whatever that means.
The most relevant airlines for Dundee in the 'Tele's article were the ones that 'offered no specific comment on Dundee', whatever that means.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
From: Essex
deecie -
You are repeating what is - with respect - a common misconception. When you factor in the time taken to actually get from plane to train, Southend actually compares very favourably with other London airports - particularly if you are travelling to the City of London district. What leads you to believe differently? How did you fare last time you used Southend? Last time I arrived there - hand luggage only - I was on the station platform some 10 minutes after descending the steps from the aircraft.
And before certain Stansted / Luton fans chip in - yes - we all know that there is still work to be done on persuading Greater Anglia to provide additional trains to the airport in the early morning and from the airport in the late evening.
You are repeating what is - with respect - a common misconception. When you factor in the time taken to actually get from plane to train, Southend actually compares very favourably with other London airports - particularly if you are travelling to the City of London district. What leads you to believe differently? How did you fare last time you used Southend? Last time I arrived there - hand luggage only - I was on the station platform some 10 minutes after descending the steps from the aircraft.
And before certain Stansted / Luton fans chip in - yes - we all know that there is still work to be done on persuading Greater Anglia to provide additional trains to the airport in the early morning and from the airport in the late evening.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Aberdeen
Essexman -
I have only once flown into Southend, and I agree, from my seat on the plane to the front door of the airport took no more than 30 minutes. The slow part was to get from there onwards into London.
To get into the City of London from Dundee I would be amazed if a flight to Southend from Dundee could be either faster or cheaper than heading down to Edinburgh to fly into London City.
I have only once flown into Southend, and I agree, from my seat on the plane to the front door of the airport took no more than 30 minutes. The slow part was to get from there onwards into London.
To get into the City of London from Dundee I would be amazed if a flight to Southend from Dundee could be either faster or cheaper than heading down to Edinburgh to fly into London City.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,173
Likes: 0
From: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
You are repeating what is - with respect - a common misconception. When you factor in the time taken to actually get from plane to train, Southend actually compares very favourably with other London airports - particularly if you are travelling to the City of London district. What leads you to believe differently? How did you fare last time you used Southend? Last time I arrived there - hand luggage only - I was on the station platform some 10 minutes after descending the steps from the aircraft.
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 0
From: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Absoultely spot on and accurate, however you need to market the airport and as soon as you do, people see the word "Southend-(on-Sea)" and book elsewhere.
FR have been doing it for years: Brussels-South (Charleroi), Frankfurt-Hahn, etc.. London-West (Bournemouth) anyone?
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Dundee
Loganair to take up the slack with a Dundee-> Stansted from 30 March with DO 328.
Twice weekday and once on a Sunday states report.
Full copy BREAKING NEWS: Dundee Airport gains new Loganair service to London Stansted - Dundee / Local / News / The Courier
Twice weekday and once on a Sunday states report.
Full copy BREAKING NEWS: Dundee Airport gains new Loganair service to London Stansted - Dundee / Local / News / The Courier
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,405
Likes: 31
From: LV
mmm. STN ? Who is that useful for ? Not exactly what business sorts will be needing or wanting I suspect. Something rather than nothing, and probably done to make the route as cheap as possible. Will it still be there in a year ?
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 262
Likes: 2
From: Scotland
Well, good news for DND in that it probably secures the airport for the short term. However beyond that the jury remains out - STN may well be cheaper to operate into, but the flip side is it's much less convenient. Even biz pax who currently use the existing LCY service may well feel they're as well going from EDI when faced with the STN express and the fares appear to be too high to tempt more price sensitive pax to replace them. LCY struggled to attract pax at high fares, I think STN could struggle even more.
Imo the only way we'll get a sustainable service at DND is if they can get a larger aircraft in to increase the volume and lower the fares, but I can't see any airline who'll come in and do that.
Imo the only way we'll get a sustainable service at DND is if they can get a larger aircraft in to increase the volume and lower the fares, but I can't see any airline who'll come in and do that.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
From: Winterfell
DUNDEE
On the up side there are onward flights to far more destinations from STN than from LCY(and the reverse is true, more destinations inbound to STN that can now travel onward to DND). This in itself opens up DND to a whole new set of pax.