HEATHROW

[Fairdealfrank]

Sounds like you have just reinvented the Heathrow Express, which is just about the last link that needs any more capacity.

With all the changes going on, western access to LHR, crossrail, Great Western electrification, etc., it is likely that the franchises will need to be altered. Who knows if there will even be a Heathrow express in its present form.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Fairdealfrank

With all the changes going on, western access to LHR, crossrail, Great Western electrification, etc., it is likely that the franchises will need to be altered. Who knows if there will even be a Heathrow express in its present form.

Well HAL are absolutely determined it will continue in pretty much its present form, notwithstanding that it will become an irrelevant nonsense once Crossrail starts. HAL marked up huge costs against the construction of HEx, including some dubiously allocated to it, and is still looking for their excessive rate of return on this that the Spanish seem to want.

One of the many stupidities is that there will be far more Crossrail trains through Central London than will be going down the western arms of the system, so many of them will be turning round at Paddington. Meanwhile HEx will be starting from Paddington, to run out to Heathrow duplicating what Crossrail does at n (where n is quite a large number) times the fare. It will never be worth changing trains at Paddington between Crossrail and HEx, as the time taken changing to platforms at the opposite side of the station, buying fresh tickets, waiting for the next departure, and the inconvenience if with baggage/children/etc, will more than absorb the time spent waiting for the next through Crossrail.

[BasilBush]

A couple of points for info, WHBM.

Firstly Heathrow Express predates the current franchising system. I recall it has a track access agreement (for 4 train paths per hour, each way) for a period of 25 years.

Secondly, HEX has never earned anything like an adequate return on investment. But it was never expected to, based on fare revenues alone. Instead, the investment in HEX is included in Heathrow's regulatory asset base (RAB), such that any shortfall against the target regulated return is effectively made up by the airlines through airport charges.

Thirdly, "the Spaniards" only own around 25% of Heathrow now, having sold down to a range of sovereign wealth funds, pension funds etc. Not really relevant, but just for info!

[Porrohman]

BA163 to Tel Aviv tonight departed 1hr 50 mins late, got as far as overhead Dunkirk, did a couple of orbits overhead and looks like it's returning to LHR.
A321 G-MEDJ according to Flightradar24.com

[Porrohman]

Following on from my post yesterday, according to BA Source;

British Airways A321 G-MEDJ BA163 Heathrow Technical Return.
February 15, 2014
British Airways A321 G-MEDJ operating last night’s delayed BA163 London Heathrow – Tel Aviv reached Dunkirk in the early hours of this morning whilst still at 12,000 ft, circled to troubleshoot a technical issue and then returned to London Heathrow. The flight and the return BA162 were subsequently cancelled.

Perhaps a pressurisation problem?

[Bagso]

This all presupposes that the Governement "of the day" will run with Davies !

Heathrow Expansion ;

Lib dems are against

Conservative lukewarm

Labour well God knows

UKIP Against (I have included as they could severely dent Liberals/Tory vote)

If the flooding issue goes badly for the present Government as the New Orleans Hurricane did for George Bush what then.

Could be a real mish mash !

---------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't the flooding near Wraysbury a bit close for comfort, especially if land to North is reclaimed as it will be !

According to the BBC flood alert The Riverside cargo centre is surrounded by "the possibility" of flooding that's only 500yds from T5.

Was there not talk of removing reservoirs as well ?

[BasilBush]

Was there not talk of removing reservoirs as well ?

I think the idea was to build over the reservoirs, with them remaining as effectively underground reservoirs. But this option was not one of the schemes that Davies is taking forward.

[Skipness One Echo]

This all presupposes that the Governement "of the day" will run with Davies !

Politicians lie.
The last Labour government bit the bullet and approved LHR expansion.
Cameron vetoed it for political gain then when in office understood why it needs to happen. Hence Davies gives Tory and Labour cover to make a touch choice forty years too late. We need to pay our way and to do that we need to trade, to do that we need to loosen the constraints on our hub connectivity.
Follow the money :
Crossrail is funded and coming soon.
Further rail enhancements are planned.
Terminal 2 is nearly complete. Terminal 2C is in the planning stages.
Terminal 5 is world class.

Zac Goldsmith (billionaire, nice house under the flightpath), Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Boris is his stage name, (clever guy, lazy, repeatedly fired, never had a real job), Edward Milliband, theoretical academic socialist, never had a real job, and whatever's left of the Lib Dems can bleat all they like. Follow the money. See what's happening on the ground and in the planning. Red Ed needs *some* credibility with business and he's not in a position to fund Boris Island or fudge the issue for another decade.

It's not beyond the wit of man to prevent Heathrow flooding in expceptional weather, it's really, really not. It's also somewhat cheaper than spening BILLION of pounds building a magical floating island on the wrong side of London, distant from the M4 corridor and all the jobs it supports. Follow the money, ignore the hot air from windbag opportunist politicians who say what you want to hear then do what they were going to do anyway.

[Heathrow Harry]

"Thought that there some new fast-track process for "infrastructure of national significance" and that legislation was pending for more of the same to thwart the eco-warriors, the "swampy"s and the litigators."

maybe but people will fight THAT legislation through every court in the UK & Europe as well as an infringement of their rights to sue - and everything will be put on hold

And the lawyers and judges will of course back them and the legal eagles grow fat on all these appeals

parliament is no longer sovereign, even without the European dimension - just like the USA - checks & balances

[anothertyke]

Follow the money--totally agree. Who is going to fund it (whichever it is) is the single most interesting question. That's the ball to watch.

But also follow the politics. Suppose we have a four party election next year, the result will not be nailed on. Another close result of any kind could make life difficult. The number of marginal seats is not necessarily where it's at as a political favourable wind indicator.

[Northbound A1]

Heathrow news.
Spain's Ferrovial has offered to buy three British airports from its partners in Heathrow Airport Holdings.
Maybe they would like to buy DTV as well?

Yahoo News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines

[EMB-145LR]

Surprised no one has mentioned yesterdays announcement of a new daily service to Chicago operated by Delta.

[Fairdealfrank]

This all presupposes that the Governement "of the day" will run with Davies !

Heathrow Expansion ;

Lib dems are against

Conservative lukewarm

Labour well God knows

UKIP Against (I have included as they could severely dent Liberals/Tory vote)

If the flooding issue goes badly for the present Government as the New Orleans Hurricane did for George Bush what then.

Could be a real mish mash !

Of course it is possible that Davies would be ignored after 2015, fantastic waste of taxpayers' money (no change there) if this does turn out be the case.

However, Skipness's "follow the money" advice is sensible and makes good sense.

Be in doubt that UKIP will take votes from Labour as well as Con-Lib, it's just that Labour haven't woken up to this yet, but the main point is that the Heathrow issue is not going to determine any election results, and no seats, even those around Heathrow, will change hands because of it.

Isn't the flooding near Wraysbury a bit close for comfort, especially if land to North is reclaimed as it will be !

According to the BBC flood alert The Riverside cargo centre is surrounded by "the possibility" of flooding that's only 500yds from T5.

It will concentrate minds if expansion happens, everything will that little bit higher than originally planned. Chances are that the airport authorities will have chat with their counterparts at Schiphol.

Was there not talk of removing reservoirs as well ?

Yes, (1) for the original scheme of four rwys to the immediate west of Heathrow, (2) for Jock Lowe's idea to double the length of both rwys and use them as four rwys, and (3) for Heathrow Airport Ltd's own "south west rwy" proposal.

However for the Commission's option of extending only 09R/27L does not involve reservoir demolition.

[Bagso]

What other infastructure improvmenst are in the pipleine?

Widening M25, additional junction to North near T6 ?

[DaveReidUK]

However for the Commission's option of extending only 09R/27L does not involve reservoir demolition.

It would, if that was the runway they were considering extending.

But of course it's the 09L/27R extension that's been shortlisted.

[KelvinD]

On Sunday, I was talking with a chap who lives in Stanwell. He told me the residents have now received a "consultation paper" re the new runway and this refers exclusively to a new runway, NW of the airport, heading toward Datchet. The M25 will go in a tunnel and a reservoir will be filled in. Still, the way these things go in the UK, I doubt many of us on this forum will live long enough to see the eventual outcome!

[DaveReidUK]

He told me the residents have now received a "consultation paper" re the new runway and this refers exclusively to a new runway, NW of the airport, heading toward Datchet.

http://www.heathrowairport.com/stati...tion_FINAL.pdf

The M25 will go in a tunnel and a reservoir will be filled in.

I suspect you may be thinking of the former gravel pits just to the SW of the M4/M25 junction.

They would certainly be under the proposed runway and need to be filled in, but neither the original nor the revised NW runway proposal go anywhere near either the Queen Mary or Wraysbury reservoirs:

[NWSRG]

The drawings currently being shown are obviously only conceptual at this stage, but it looks like there are only satellites, and no core terminal, for the new runway.
Is it planned to service the satellites directly from T2 or T5?

[Fairdealfrank]

It would, if that was the runway they were considering extending.

But of course it's the 09L/27R extension that's been shortlisted.

yes, of course it is, apologies!

The drawings currently being shown are obviously only conceptual at this stage, but it looks like there are only satellites, and no core terminal, for the new runway.
Is it planned to service the satellites directly from T2 or T5?

Hopefully LHR-5, else it's a very long train ride!

Also, there's no LHR-3 on the conceptual drawing.

[DaveReidUK]

Is it planned to service the satellites directly from T2 or T5?

The scheme includes a new Terminal (T6), located just to the west of Terminal 5, serving the 3/4 satellites. There will also be access to them from T2.