HEATHROW

[BurglarsDog]

Flying in to Heathrow next week. And of course the first travellator we encounter at Heathrow probably wont work (again)! No worries. Dont really care as its part and parcel of visiting Blighty. But family leaving for Oz without me Sat night end of July. Can someone advise current waiting times for security after checking in baggage? Just wondering whether to tell Mrs Dog to take the tent and a couple of bones with her?
Ta
DogGone

[halo]

The simple fact is that Heathrow is a dump.

The maintenance is terrible.

The terminals are overcrowded.

There are hardly any bins anywhere at all... Surely if you have been through security then the risk of putting something deadly in a bin has been dramatically reduced... Of course emptying bins costs money which is why it isn't done at Heathrow.

The toilets are completely and utterly disgraceful. Just because there is a little electronic monitor on the wall saying that they are cleaned every 30 minutes does not mean that it is getting done.

There are hardly any seats anywhere. Nobody gives a toss about the shops. They do care about not standing around for hours on end.

The airport is so far over its capacity with regards to passenger numbers and number of flights coming in and out that nobody appears to have any control over it anymore.

It's all well and good for the Chief Executive to accept criticism, but it purely comes down to the fact that he needs to do something about it. If you are taking on too many flights, and allowing ACL to fill up the airport with aircraft that you can't competently handle, then you surely must be thinking "We need to get our arses in gear".

Problem is... the BAA only care about money, profit, and shareholders. The last people they think about are the long suffering passengers who pay well over the odds for a sandwich and have to suffer the frankly awful conditions and environment that Heathrow airport presents.

[Benny Lin]

I personally cannot see how T5 is going to make things better, which seems to be the standard mantra. Most of the operational issues seem to centre around staffing, either 1. not enough people (security, maintenance, cleaning, baggage, dispatchers, etc) and 2. working practices (baggage again, bus drivers, etc). Whilst I recognise some limited improvements in the latter with respect to BA, they are only very limited and none of the other issues are addressed by the new terminal. Indeed, won't staff be spread more thinly (presumably there will be another Flight Connection Centre for T5 to T5 transfers for example), so it could get worse? Added to the inevitable teething problems with a new build, I would think that Heathrow will be a place to avoid for a few weeks next Spring.

[groundbum]

been there done that

my background, my wife and I own an 11 bedroom B&B in the Yorkshire Dales and I'm an always wannabe pilot and love jetfumes.

I have a lot of sympathy for LHR and BAA, as we find ourselves in the same situation here. We are incredibly popular and are nearly 100% full. What this means is loadsa money which is great, but there is just NO reasonable way of getting any DIY done, as checkout is 11am and checkin is 4pm. So as well as doing the day job of phones, cleaning beds etc, unless it's replacing a lightbulb or tightening a tap there's no way of getting into the bedroom room to do anything major.

So we built an 8 bedroom extension this winter, thinking that would take some pressure off the existing rooms. Nope, we're now down to 95% occupancy, still not enough to get in and do anything major!

So we're like a mini LHR adding our own capacity but being overrun again. Yes we could turn people away and cancel bookings etc, but that means upsetting a lot of people.

Funnily enough, the second set of people in our new extension in May were.... 6 quantity surveyers from T5 on a boys weekend away!

The only way to totally clean nasty old terminals is close them for a week and really go at it hammer and tongs for a top to bottom clean. But at 110% capacity all year how can BAA do that?!?! Other countries have the benefit of unlimited land so they can just add another mega building and close the old one in a rotating fashion, but England being a small island nation..

G

[MarkD]

They could always reduce demand from LHR by asking BA to run more flights direct from where people are coming from to where they are going out of places like MAN, BHX, GLA...

[turnipgreen]

LHR

switch some flights to LCY! Actually thinking about it, don't. I like LCY as it is with not many queues, smiling staff and a relaxed atmosphere. In fact, you couldnt get further from the experience of Heathrow (Which i had to experience last week!)

[Buster the Bear]

The Spaniards paid a Kings ransom for the BAA, so efficiencies have to made somewhere! Staffing probably is the largest single fixed cost, therefore whilst the demand is there, terminals can look dirty. Do long queues stop folk from wanting to fly?

After the last departure, there is plenty of time to clean and freshen up a terminal overnight. The airport itself is effectively closed during the 'small hours'. The security delays are not of the BAA's making, and will take time to recruit and train sufficient quality staff (assuming they are recruiting)?

[Skipness One Echo]

Had to pass through Terrible 3 Flight Connections last week and got searched AGAIN!!! What on Earth is the idea behind getting searched when airside? I was cleared by security at Toronto.
Also if the Canadians have the resources to safely check my TWO items of cabin baggage, why in the UK are connecting passengers FORCED to check one in on transit. Is airport security in Canada not trusted?

Also the whole random shoe X-Ray is becoming embarrassing. Either x-ray themn all or for all our sakes stop. It is needlessly humiliating.

[spanishflea]

Security screening connecting pax is the rule rather than the exception.

Most transit points do what LHR do, they just manage it a little better...

[egnxema]

After PanAm 102 i became policy at LHR that all pax and bags leaving LHR, either in transit or originating, would be screened by Heathrow security.

The 1 bag policy is current DfT directive which is hopefully under review.

The T3 transfers facility is a disgrace, but is soon to be replaced by a new facility directly behind the current one with 7 x ray machines.

Complaining to security officers or supervisors, or on pprune, will not get things changed - they agree with you 100% and make their feelings known to management regularly.

All frontline staff in T3 would urge you to complain strongly to BAA via the website www.heathrowairport.com/feedback and make it clear that you intend to connect in AMS FRA or CDG in future, and that you will adjust your company's travale policy to reflect the same. BAA don't fear much, and sit in an enviable position of a queue of airlines waiting to use the cramped facilities. The main thing BAA fear is being overtaken by a rival airport on on the continent.

Complain, complain, complain.

Also, Canadian security, just like UK security, is only as good as the guard sitting at that moment, looking at that particular bag. Screen reading is incredibly boring, but possibly one of the most important parts of aviation security. Hats off to all that do it.

[Skipness One Echo]

The last time I used Flight Connections in 2001 my bags were through checked from Glasgow to Singapore and I was not rescreened at Heathrow. The experience was quite pleasant.
I ask again, what is the point of this security?
If it is a DFT rule can someone supply the details or a link to the site please.

[newscaster]

Air China have started using A340 with new First and Business class cabins on PEK-LHR route daily since June 21, no more 747.

[WHBM]

The 1 bag policy is current DfT directive which is hopefully under review.

It may have been determined by the DfT but they were entirely encouraged by BAA to do this, all the while pretending it would be good for security. In fact BAA (or the security-minded team who attended the DfT meetings) wanted it because they knew it would reduce security screening costs per pax, which were rising as pax took more and more hand luggage to overcome chronic difficulties with checked baggage, and airlines were starting to allow greater hand baggage amounts.

I had the good fortune to go on Tuesday of this week through T1 domestic security at it's quietest time, 9.30pm. You would think it would be deserted, wouldn't you ? Well it took 20 minutes of queueing and the queue was way back past the BA domestic check-in and starting down the terminal. Reason was entirely down to five out of the six checkpoints being closed, just the "staff" one on the far left being open. No delayed domestic departures on the board at all.

The real trouble with BAA management is they have lost any interest in aviation or passengers. Their entire targets and budgets are focused around how much margin they can screw out of the operation each month to remit to Madrid to service the debt borrowed to buy the place. Everyone who should be running the operation is stuck in their office looking at spreadsheets and playing with budgets and cost reporting. Even the retail units steadily change over, dropping the few that were of any use in favour of the highest rent-offerers, regardless of the mix of units. What goes on outside in the terminals has ceased to involve them.

[spanishflea]

The last time I used Flight Connections in 2001 my bags were through checked from Glasgow to Singapore and I was not rescreened at Heathrow. The experience was quite pleasant.

Correct, if you are arriving from the UK you don't have to be searched again.

If you arrive from any other country then you do.


Just be thankful its not as bad as the USA where not only do you have to reclear security, but you have to recheck your bags too. Now that is a pain...

[Skipness One Echo]

Let me make myself a wee bit clearer. I also came back the same way and walked all the way from Flight Connections to the Shuttle Lounge with no need to be searched!!! ie SYD-BKK-LHR-GLA and cleared all security for the ENTIRE journey at Sydney.
I repeat, can someone explain why we need to rescreen arriving pax in the UK and then point me to the appropriate DfT guidance.

[WHBM]

Just announced today is a new American Airlines service from Stansted to JFK, building to twice daily by next year. I think this sends one of the clearest shots across Heathrow's bows of all the recent bad press they have been gettuing from all sides, if American is going to split their service.

[spanishflea]

Let me make myself a wee bit clearer. I also came back the same way and walked all the way from Flight Connections to the Shuttle Lounge with no need to be searched!!! ie SYD-BKK-LHR-GLA and cleared all security for the ENTIRE journey at Sydney.

That is not possible.

You land at T4, get off the plane, follow the FCC signs, get on the bus, and get dropped at the ground floor of the FCC. From there you go up the stairs, round the corner, and to the security searchpoint.

You can't access the FCC without going through security. Once you are through, you pass all the airline desks, clear immigration, and enter the Shuttle Lounge (after a long walk looking down over T1 International).

I would be intrigued if you did this any other way than I described above as something would have to have gone very seriously wrong for you to not be security cleared.

[Skipness One Echo]

Hey Spanish, as I said "The last time I used Flight Connections in 2001", so it was a wee while ago. Sorry if I sound as if I am moaning but the logic of this defeats me. If we are happy to fly a load of passengers over Westminster into LHR then why on Earth is it not safe to connect them on to Glasgow without yet more uniformed intrusion into my possesions.
I'm genuinely looking for the official reasoning on this. If Mohammed from Riyadh is allowed ( rightly ) to have cleared ( Saudi )security and permitted access to our airspace in the first place, what the Hell do we need to check again for?

[Gonzo]

Might this have anything to do with the fact that on one pier in terminal three arriving and departing passengers are still able to mix?

[Skipness One Echo]

Yes I did notice that one is able to meet arriving pax after being seperated by a glass screen all the way to the end of the pier at Stands 313 / 318 ! Quite surprised about that! That is an obvious loophole. Can anyone confirm this is the official reason?