HEATHROW
Join Date: Sep 2003
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It is not the reason. As previously stated the reason is that all pax taking off from the UK have to be cleared by UK security. At the current time the minimum standard that ALL the world's pax handling airports must adhere to are set out by ICAO. In Europe the standards are further refined and improved by ECAC, and in the UK the standard - tighter again - is set by the UK Government. Therefore at world hub airports like LHR it is quite likely that a significant percentage of transiting pax could have boarded their flight in a country complying to the ICAO standard, which is not currently as high as the UK Standard. Therefore the rule - all pax taking off from a UK airport must have been processed by UK security. All transit bags will go through the HBS system at LHR.
Stand 323 is on Pier 6, 322 is on the end of Pier 7. There is a huge amount of visible security, and an equally huge amount of invisible securty on Pier 7, which is in place until Pier 7 is demolished and replaced in the near future.
For DfT rules, try the DfT website.
Security in T3 cannot wait for the DfT to relax rules on the number of bags permitted through security. Security queues only became a regular feature after the Liquid threat last August. Believe me, BAA want nothing more than for pax to be speeded into the Departure lounges as quickly as possible. No money is made out of pax in queues. Infact, you would be surprised at the amount of money T3 refunds airlines because of queue lengths at security. Ferrovial have set a target of 5 min queue time.
If you find the current security process difficult, complain to your MP, complain to the DfT, but don't assume that any part of the security process is at the request of BAA. BAA are legally required to comply with the UK governments regulations and LHR is constantly monitored by the DfT to ensure this happens.
If aviation security in the UK is still not to your liking then take the Eurostar to Paris and make your future trips through CDG.
Stand 323 is on Pier 6, 322 is on the end of Pier 7. There is a huge amount of visible security, and an equally huge amount of invisible securty on Pier 7, which is in place until Pier 7 is demolished and replaced in the near future.
For DfT rules, try the DfT website.
Security in T3 cannot wait for the DfT to relax rules on the number of bags permitted through security. Security queues only became a regular feature after the Liquid threat last August. Believe me, BAA want nothing more than for pax to be speeded into the Departure lounges as quickly as possible. No money is made out of pax in queues. Infact, you would be surprised at the amount of money T3 refunds airlines because of queue lengths at security. Ferrovial have set a target of 5 min queue time.
If you find the current security process difficult, complain to your MP, complain to the DfT, but don't assume that any part of the security process is at the request of BAA. BAA are legally required to comply with the UK governments regulations and LHR is constantly monitored by the DfT to ensure this happens.
If aviation security in the UK is still not to your liking then take the Eurostar to Paris and make your future trips through CDG.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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You seem very keen to defend BAA but let's face it they're a bit rubbish at what they're supposed to do, ie get folk through airports. Way more interested in bloody shops. When I finally got through T3 security in the first place I found myself hopping like a loony putting my shoes on in the middle of the Duty Free Shop with nice smelling women very keen to take all my money!!
It's just WRONG WRONG WRONG. Toronto incidentally was RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT but then what the Hell do Canadians know? ( Answer : good manners, courtesy, respect and how to say "No" to the US of A when you need to !)
Incidentally since an ICAO standard airport cannot be trusted to screen security for a UK departure why on Earth would we allow them into our airspace in the first place? That in itself is logically an unacceptable risk.
Incidentally the numbert of times that they need to tell you on Pier 7 you are being watched does rather suggest there is a weakness there somewhere !
It's very creepy, like being threatened every ten feet by Big Brother, a corrosive feeling I think.
It's just WRONG WRONG WRONG. Toronto incidentally was RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT but then what the Hell do Canadians know? ( Answer : good manners, courtesy, respect and how to say "No" to the US of A when you need to !)
Incidentally since an ICAO standard airport cannot be trusted to screen security for a UK departure why on Earth would we allow them into our airspace in the first place? That in itself is logically an unacceptable risk.
Incidentally the numbert of times that they need to tell you on Pier 7 you are being watched does rather suggest there is a weakness there somewhere !
It's very creepy, like being threatened every ten feet by Big Brother, a corrosive feeling I think.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Obviously it varies, but I am not so confident about the security on pier 7.
I was approached by two members of BAA security a few weeks ago on the pier, asking to see my ID and sign. I responded by asking to see their passes and get them to sign a piece of paper that I had, in return, to prove that they were permitted to be there.
They then backed down and said they weren't going to check, and I could continue to the tower.
I was approached by two members of BAA security a few weeks ago on the pier, asking to see my ID and sign. I responded by asking to see their passes and get them to sign a piece of paper that I had, in return, to prove that they were permitted to be there.
They then backed down and said they weren't going to check, and I could continue to the tower.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Anyone comment on the suggestion in the Manchester thread that I as a British citizen will be required to be finger printed flying domestically from Terminal 5?
Have we fallen so far?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...260996&page=20
Have we fallen so far?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...260996&page=20
Stupidly when the UK Government started thinking about expanded security checks they asked BAA to assist, not having realised that BAA long ago gave up having airport matters as their main thrust, and only treat them as an incidental add on to running a retail park. BAA said they could not make enough screeners available to check more than one bag per passenger, even for transits.
It was bad enough that passengers would have any bottles of wine or normal-sized cosmetics confiscated from them, only to be offered them for sale again by the BAA monopoly immediately afterwards. BAA lobbied hard to have the limitation applied at security, not when boarding the aircraft (makes sense, huh ?
). But BAA said they were unable to make any additional staff available for security checks, despite having hundreds of fully security-cleared retail staff on duty airside who, in a number of the concessions, appear to have little to occupy them during the day.So one bag through security, buy your replacements in our conveniently located outlets just beyond. Yes please, minister, as the experts on airports we can say that is exactly the way to do it.
Anyone comment on the suggestion in the Manchester thread that I as a British citizen will be required to be finger printed flying domestically from Terminal 5?
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Is it mandatory for everyone to be fingerprinted? It all sounds fascist to me. Fingerprinting people has very serious connotations.
I fail to see the link with shopping?
I fail to see the link with shopping?
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I read somewhere else that the reason was that because the departure retail mall has domestic and international pax mingling together there was a possibility that an incoming pax could enter the country by getting on a domestic flight without clearing immigration. I guess that would mean a devious pax who had earlier arrived on an international flight to connect to another international flight, but had cunningly also booked a domestic flight and printed his/her boarding pass at home might get on that domestic flight and thus join the great mass of IIs.
Manchester and Gatwick take photographs of domestic pax and only allow them to enter domestic gate areas if the photos match.
I guess the fingerprint approach is BA's or BAA's or both to do away with the staff carrying out this function by getting the paying pax to "self serve". I may be doing the bean counters an injustice though, as I suspect the real reason will be to allow flexibility at each gate to handle both domestic or international flights.
I have no problem with this approach if, as with the photos, the record is destroyed after 24 hours. But given the nature of the present security animal, there must be some interest from one agency or another to keep them for a century of two once they get wind of the process.
But it remains a complete mystery me why I get my picture taken at LGW South gates 1-10 as I arrive on a domestic flight, and am only let through to domestic baggae reclaim if the photo matches.... That's blamed on Customs, as I recall.
Manchester and Gatwick take photographs of domestic pax and only allow them to enter domestic gate areas if the photos match.
I guess the fingerprint approach is BA's or BAA's or both to do away with the staff carrying out this function by getting the paying pax to "self serve". I may be doing the bean counters an injustice though, as I suspect the real reason will be to allow flexibility at each gate to handle both domestic or international flights.
I have no problem with this approach if, as with the photos, the record is destroyed after 24 hours. But given the nature of the present security animal, there must be some interest from one agency or another to keep them for a century of two once they get wind of the process.
But it remains a complete mystery me why I get my picture taken at LGW South gates 1-10 as I arrive on a domestic flight, and am only let through to domestic baggae reclaim if the photo matches.... That's blamed on Customs, as I recall.
E European airlines at Heathrow at weekends
Let's get away from all this security stuff for a moment.
A number of carriers, particularly from Eastern Europe, are developing a trend to serve London through Gatwick, but operating a token rotation through Heathrow, generally on Saturdays when there are one or two slots available.
Now perceived wisdom is you don't want to split operations, particularly low-volume operations, like this, so there must be a reason behind it. Pulkovo (now Rossiya) has done it for a while, now Air Ukraine and Azerbaijan Airlines are doing the same.
Is there some advantage should a couple of free slots come up in having an existing presence at the airport ? It can't be because of Heathrow's business traffic advantage as the slots used are on a Saturday.
A number of carriers, particularly from Eastern Europe, are developing a trend to serve London through Gatwick, but operating a token rotation through Heathrow, generally on Saturdays when there are one or two slots available.
Now perceived wisdom is you don't want to split operations, particularly low-volume operations, like this, so there must be a reason behind it. Pulkovo (now Rossiya) has done it for a while, now Air Ukraine and Azerbaijan Airlines are doing the same.
Is there some advantage should a couple of free slots come up in having an existing presence at the airport ? It can't be because of Heathrow's business traffic advantage as the slots used are on a Saturday.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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In the case of Pulkovo, their LHR slot goes back to when Aeroflot operated LGW/LHR-St Petersburg - I guess their aim was to have as many flights at LHR as possible, so thats why there was one LHR-LED flight a week. When Pulkovo took over LON-LED from Aeroflot, the once weekly LHR flight came with it, and they havent changed it since
Join Date: Jun 2007
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A question to people who have better knowledge than me of lhr even though i fly through it quite often.
There is lots of evidence for aerlingus operating to bfs later this year or early next. Will the bfs flights depart from gate2(the belfast lounge) or the aerlingus irish flights departure area gates 74 on?
There is lots of evidence for aerlingus operating to bfs later this year or early next. Will the bfs flights depart from gate2(the belfast lounge) or the aerlingus irish flights departure area gates 74 on?
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Adding to that it may well be the case that within another couple of years there will be no BFS, MAN, GLA, ABZ, and EDI. Airlines involved with these routes see bigger aircraft and perhaps more value in disposing of these slots. Such routes will \ may move to LGW just like INV, GCI and JER.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Not gonna happen. BMI are the Star Alliance feed into Heathrow. BA feed their long haul from the regions. They might need to tighten the frequencies but there's no way Heathrow will lose it's domestic routes as they are the arteries to the international services. That would be silly.
Do you seriously want to arrive at 5am from the Far East and get on a bus to an different airport?
Quite the contrary - with the new northern SHORT runway, we might see a limited return of the likes of Inverness and others. Be good to get the Highlands linked back in again and join up the dots.
Do you seriously want to arrive at 5am from the Far East and get on a bus to an different airport?
Quite the contrary - with the new northern SHORT runway, we might see a limited return of the likes of Inverness and others. Be good to get the Highlands linked back in again and join up the dots.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Aer Lingus can't just use their slots to fly anywhere; they need permission from the Irish Department of Transport (it's a legacy of the privatisation process). There would probably be considerable tolerance shown if they want to switch slots from Dublin to Belfast, but I can't see the same thing happening if they want to start long-haul.
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BA feed their long haul from the regions. They might need to tighten the frequencies but there's no way Heathrow will lose it's domestic routes as they are the arteries to the international services.
Would be interested to know actually how much regional traffic is generated from the regions into LHR for BA - I seem to remember BA withdrawing from many of the UK's regions not so long ago.
Would be interested to know actually how much regional traffic is generated from the regions into LHR for BA - I seem to remember BA withdrawing from many of the UK's regions not so long ago.
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Well you've got it half right. The point to point services from the regions into Europe were withdrawn as they were losing money and not intergral to feeding the long haul routes. THAT was pretty obvious alas.
The business model at BA is built around regional feed and feed from Europe into a single hub at Heathrow.
The business model at BA is built around regional feed and feed from Europe into a single hub at Heathrow.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Heathrow Terminal 5
Predicted here on PPrune some while back...
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2120834.ece
BAA asks for lenience as chaos looms at Heathrow
Heathrow is at risk of further significant disruption to airline and passenger services following the opening of Terminal 5 in March next year believes BAA, the company that owns London’s airports.
BAA’s concern prompted the airport operator to ask its regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority, to consider suspending a penalty regime relating to service quality that requires BAA to pay rebates to airlines if the airport fails to meet certain service quality standards. A BAA spokesman said that it would be an exceptional suspension, analagous to “what happened after a terrorist attack”.
Signals that widespread airport disruption could coincide with the transfer of British Airways’ services from Terminals 1 and 4 to their new home from March 27 will be a blow to travel-lers who had hoped for a swift reduction in delays and overcrowding after the opening of the new terminal.
Worsening delays and overcrowding have plagued Heathrow, with the pressure on space exacerbated by the introduction of stringent new security measures last year. The Heathrow operator must meet 27 service quality measures ranging from cleanliness and speed of passenger security checks to the provision of piers to airlines.
Tony Douglas, who last week quit his job as chief executive of Heathrow, has described the airport as “at times held together by sticking plaster”.
BAA’s request for suspension of the penalty regime emerges in documents relating to the five-year review by the CAA of the pricing regime for the London airports.
In a document reviewing the airport pricing regime, published by the CAA in December, the regulator disclosed that BAA had asked for a blanket suspension of standards and rebates scheme at Heathrow during periods of change. “BAA believed that the service quality scheme should be temporarily suspended, at Heathrow, during those stages . . . when airport operations would be in a significant state of flux while airlines relocate to alternative terminals following the opening of T5.”
The airlines oppose a blanket suspension of the scheme, the CAA report states, suggesting that there should be a temporary suspension of only parts of the scheme in specific areas for brief periods.
BAA said that it believed it would be “harsh” to penalise the company during the move of airlines to different terminals.
“It is going to be a huge move – British Airways is 40 per cent of our business. A move of 90 airlines is a massive operation. We would hope that nothing goes wrong,” it said.
Heathrow is groaning under the strain of 68 million passengers a year, about 50 per cent more than its capacity of 45 million. The security crisis that erupted last year with the introduction of new measures limiting hand luggage and more intense scrutiny of passengers has left the airport struggling to cope and vulnerable to every new challenge, from weather to terrorist threats.
The opening of Terminal 5, which will handle all of BA’s flights, was intended to ease congestion but there are still concerns about the availability of piers and jetties for aircraft.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2120834.ece
BAA asks for lenience as chaos looms at Heathrow
Heathrow is at risk of further significant disruption to airline and passenger services following the opening of Terminal 5 in March next year believes BAA, the company that owns London’s airports.
BAA’s concern prompted the airport operator to ask its regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority, to consider suspending a penalty regime relating to service quality that requires BAA to pay rebates to airlines if the airport fails to meet certain service quality standards. A BAA spokesman said that it would be an exceptional suspension, analagous to “what happened after a terrorist attack”.
Signals that widespread airport disruption could coincide with the transfer of British Airways’ services from Terminals 1 and 4 to their new home from March 27 will be a blow to travel-lers who had hoped for a swift reduction in delays and overcrowding after the opening of the new terminal.
Worsening delays and overcrowding have plagued Heathrow, with the pressure on space exacerbated by the introduction of stringent new security measures last year. The Heathrow operator must meet 27 service quality measures ranging from cleanliness and speed of passenger security checks to the provision of piers to airlines.
Tony Douglas, who last week quit his job as chief executive of Heathrow, has described the airport as “at times held together by sticking plaster”.
BAA’s request for suspension of the penalty regime emerges in documents relating to the five-year review by the CAA of the pricing regime for the London airports.
In a document reviewing the airport pricing regime, published by the CAA in December, the regulator disclosed that BAA had asked for a blanket suspension of standards and rebates scheme at Heathrow during periods of change. “BAA believed that the service quality scheme should be temporarily suspended, at Heathrow, during those stages . . . when airport operations would be in a significant state of flux while airlines relocate to alternative terminals following the opening of T5.”
The airlines oppose a blanket suspension of the scheme, the CAA report states, suggesting that there should be a temporary suspension of only parts of the scheme in specific areas for brief periods.
BAA said that it believed it would be “harsh” to penalise the company during the move of airlines to different terminals.
“It is going to be a huge move – British Airways is 40 per cent of our business. A move of 90 airlines is a massive operation. We would hope that nothing goes wrong,” it said.
Heathrow is groaning under the strain of 68 million passengers a year, about 50 per cent more than its capacity of 45 million. The security crisis that erupted last year with the introduction of new measures limiting hand luggage and more intense scrutiny of passengers has left the airport struggling to cope and vulnerable to every new challenge, from weather to terrorist threats.
The opening of Terminal 5, which will handle all of BA’s flights, was intended to ease congestion but there are still concerns about the availability of piers and jetties for aircraft.