HEATHROW
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Heathrow Terminal 5
Predicted here on PPrune some while back...
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2120834.ece
BAA asks for lenience as chaos looms at Heathrow
Heathrow is at risk of further significant disruption to airline and passenger services following the opening of Terminal 5 in March next year believes BAA, the company that owns London’s airports.
BAA’s concern prompted the airport operator to ask its regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority, to consider suspending a penalty regime relating to service quality that requires BAA to pay rebates to airlines if the airport fails to meet certain service quality standards. A BAA spokesman said that it would be an exceptional suspension, analagous to “what happened after a terrorist attack”.
Signals that widespread airport disruption could coincide with the transfer of British Airways’ services from Terminals 1 and 4 to their new home from March 27 will be a blow to travel-lers who had hoped for a swift reduction in delays and overcrowding after the opening of the new terminal.
Worsening delays and overcrowding have plagued Heathrow, with the pressure on space exacerbated by the introduction of stringent new security measures last year. The Heathrow operator must meet 27 service quality measures ranging from cleanliness and speed of passenger security checks to the provision of piers to airlines.
Tony Douglas, who last week quit his job as chief executive of Heathrow, has described the airport as “at times held together by sticking plaster”.
BAA’s request for suspension of the penalty regime emerges in documents relating to the five-year review by the CAA of the pricing regime for the London airports.
In a document reviewing the airport pricing regime, published by the CAA in December, the regulator disclosed that BAA had asked for a blanket suspension of standards and rebates scheme at Heathrow during periods of change. “BAA believed that the service quality scheme should be temporarily suspended, at Heathrow, during those stages . . . when airport operations would be in a significant state of flux while airlines relocate to alternative terminals following the opening of T5.”
The airlines oppose a blanket suspension of the scheme, the CAA report states, suggesting that there should be a temporary suspension of only parts of the scheme in specific areas for brief periods.
BAA said that it believed it would be “harsh” to penalise the company during the move of airlines to different terminals.
“It is going to be a huge move – British Airways is 40 per cent of our business. A move of 90 airlines is a massive operation. We would hope that nothing goes wrong,” it said.
Heathrow is groaning under the strain of 68 million passengers a year, about 50 per cent more than its capacity of 45 million. The security crisis that erupted last year with the introduction of new measures limiting hand luggage and more intense scrutiny of passengers has left the airport struggling to cope and vulnerable to every new challenge, from weather to terrorist threats.
The opening of Terminal 5, which will handle all of BA’s flights, was intended to ease congestion but there are still concerns about the availability of piers and jetties for aircraft.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2120834.ece
BAA asks for lenience as chaos looms at Heathrow
Heathrow is at risk of further significant disruption to airline and passenger services following the opening of Terminal 5 in March next year believes BAA, the company that owns London’s airports.
BAA’s concern prompted the airport operator to ask its regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority, to consider suspending a penalty regime relating to service quality that requires BAA to pay rebates to airlines if the airport fails to meet certain service quality standards. A BAA spokesman said that it would be an exceptional suspension, analagous to “what happened after a terrorist attack”.
Signals that widespread airport disruption could coincide with the transfer of British Airways’ services from Terminals 1 and 4 to their new home from March 27 will be a blow to travel-lers who had hoped for a swift reduction in delays and overcrowding after the opening of the new terminal.
Worsening delays and overcrowding have plagued Heathrow, with the pressure on space exacerbated by the introduction of stringent new security measures last year. The Heathrow operator must meet 27 service quality measures ranging from cleanliness and speed of passenger security checks to the provision of piers to airlines.
Tony Douglas, who last week quit his job as chief executive of Heathrow, has described the airport as “at times held together by sticking plaster”.
BAA’s request for suspension of the penalty regime emerges in documents relating to the five-year review by the CAA of the pricing regime for the London airports.
In a document reviewing the airport pricing regime, published by the CAA in December, the regulator disclosed that BAA had asked for a blanket suspension of standards and rebates scheme at Heathrow during periods of change. “BAA believed that the service quality scheme should be temporarily suspended, at Heathrow, during those stages . . . when airport operations would be in a significant state of flux while airlines relocate to alternative terminals following the opening of T5.”
The airlines oppose a blanket suspension of the scheme, the CAA report states, suggesting that there should be a temporary suspension of only parts of the scheme in specific areas for brief periods.
BAA said that it believed it would be “harsh” to penalise the company during the move of airlines to different terminals.
“It is going to be a huge move – British Airways is 40 per cent of our business. A move of 90 airlines is a massive operation. We would hope that nothing goes wrong,” it said.
Heathrow is groaning under the strain of 68 million passengers a year, about 50 per cent more than its capacity of 45 million. The security crisis that erupted last year with the introduction of new measures limiting hand luggage and more intense scrutiny of passengers has left the airport struggling to cope and vulnerable to every new challenge, from weather to terrorist threats.
The opening of Terminal 5, which will handle all of BA’s flights, was intended to ease congestion but there are still concerns about the availability of piers and jetties for aircraft.
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"The security crisis that erupted last year with the introduction of new measures limiting hand luggage and more intense scrutiny of passengers has left the airport struggling to cope"
Having a sufficient number of security staff would be a start. The number of times you go through LHR and see idle security scanners and a line of pax a mile long is the norm. Pull yer finger out LHR management!
Having a sufficient number of security staff would be a start. The number of times you go through LHR and see idle security scanners and a line of pax a mile long is the norm. Pull yer finger out LHR management!
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"The security crisis that erupted last year with the introduction of new measures limiting hand luggage and more intense scrutiny of passengers has left the airport struggling to cope"
Having a sufficient number of security staff would be a start. The number of times you go through LHR and see idle security scanners and a line of pax a mile long is the norm. Pull yer finger out LHR management!
Having a sufficient number of security staff would be a start. The number of times you go through LHR and see idle security scanners and a line of pax a mile long is the norm. Pull yer finger out LHR management!
LHR is home base for me .......... and it is an utter pain in the 4rse to operate out of, and into. BAA are paying the price for their incompetence, and the fines should continue. However, everyone BUT BAA pays the price for the operating in this sh1thole of an airport.
LHR is home base for me .......... and it is an utter pain in the 4rse to operate out of, and into. BAA are paying the price for their incompetence, and the fines should continue. However, everyone BUT BAA pays the price for the operating in this sh1thole of an airport.
Paxing All Over The World
So ... BAA and BA have both claimed that T5 was the answer to everything but now BAA tell us that they cannot execute a plan to move carriers from one Terminal to another?
They might have had years to plan it and be able to stagger the move over a number of weeks if they want but NO. The only answer is that we have to let them off the hook?
Unfortunately, all that I have seen of the CAA suggests that they will get away with it.
They might have had years to plan it and be able to stagger the move over a number of weeks if they want but NO. The only answer is that we have to let them off the hook?
Unfortunately, all that I have seen of the CAA suggests that they will get away with it.
Paxing All Over The World
So ... BAA and BA have both claimed that T5 was the answer to everything but now BAA tell us that they cannot execute a plan to move carriers from one Terminal to another?
They might have had years to plan it and be able to stagger the move over a number of weeks if they want but NO. The only answer is that we have to let them off the hook?
Unfortunately, all that I have seen of the CAA suggests that they will get away with it.
They might have had years to plan it and be able to stagger the move over a number of weeks if they want but NO. The only answer is that we have to let them off the hook?
Unfortunately, all that I have seen of the CAA suggests that they will get away with it.
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Capacity?
"Heathrow is groaning under the strain of 68 million passengers a year, about 50 per cent more than its capacity of 45 million"
How does an airport operate at 50% more than it's capacity? It obviously handling it (although not very well). It would seem Heathrow's capacity is in fact 68million a year. Even if they are all uncomfortable and checking-in in portakabins.
How does an airport operate at 50% more than it's capacity? It obviously handling it (although not very well). It would seem Heathrow's capacity is in fact 68million a year. Even if they are all uncomfortable and checking-in in portakabins.
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Capacity?
"Heathrow is groaning under the strain of 68 million passengers a year, about 50 per cent more than its capacity of 45 million"
How does an airport operate at 50% more than it's capacity? It obviously handling it (although not very well). It would seem Heathrow's capacity is in fact 68million a year. Even if they are all uncomfortable and checking-in in portakabins.
How does an airport operate at 50% more than it's capacity? It obviously handling it (although not very well). It would seem Heathrow's capacity is in fact 68million a year. Even if they are all uncomfortable and checking-in in portakabins.
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T5: Possibly a white elephant
I couldn't agree more with the posts of Glass Half Empty, MrBenoulli, PAXboy & 411A. LHR is a complete disaster in just about every respect. I have to commute through LHR approx. once every two months or so & it's a total, complete & utter nightmare. I work alongside various nationalities who also commute great distances & each & every one of them now avoids LHR at all costs in favour of FRA, AMS, CDG etc., etc. If the current shambles of draconian, understaffed & dim witted security measures continue then there will have been no need to build T5 as there won't be enough customers left to warrant its construction. It's also a massive rip off: from car parking charges, to eating, to the 'official' taxis that operate its ranks. I was charged £60 in April for a 6 mile journey after being guided to the rank by an airport official!! The legalised robber said that he had to charge such an extortionate amount because it was the morning rush hour & it would take him such a long time to get his position back. That same analogy is true of many other airport taxi systems around the world but it just happens to be only at LHR where such daylight robbery has happened to me.
Heathrow is suffering from UK Government 'politcally correct' & BAA cheapskate policy. You have to be seen to be doing something with regards to security measures so impose riduculous, ineffective "how can we piss off the customers most" technique. Within its citizenship the United Kingdom contains some of the finest security brains in the world with decades of intelligence gathering, counter intelligence & military experience. They could run the security far more effectively & efficiently, thereby keeping us all safer & far less hassled, than the current in-breds running & working at LHR & just about every other British airport. Why aren't they there? Put quite simply it would be an expense that the BAA is not prepared to pay for. That's how much the Government & the BAA care about our safety: it has a price limit on it.
T5 was definitely needed to cope with the projected rise in traffic at the airport but those projections may yet be proved to be flawed enough to warrant it as yet another massive waste of money. Will somebody in authority please listen to the real experts, i.e., the passengers & staff who have to deal with this hell hole of an airport regularly & not whisked through via The Hounslow Suite. If something isn't done to alleviate the chaos that ensues every damn time that you set foot in the place it will lose insurmountable ground to its near European neighbours as a world wide hub.
The legalised robber said that he had to charge such an extortionate amount because it was the morning rush hour & it would take him such a long time to get his position back. That same analogy is true of many other airport taxi systems around the world but it just happens to be only at LHR where such daylight robbery has happened to me.Heathrow is suffering from UK Government 'politcally correct' & BAA cheapskate policy. You have to be seen to be doing something with regards to security measures so impose riduculous, ineffective "how can we piss off the customers most" technique. Within its citizenship the United Kingdom contains some of the finest security brains in the world with decades of intelligence gathering, counter intelligence & military experience. They could run the security far more effectively & efficiently, thereby keeping us all safer & far less hassled, than the current in-breds running & working at LHR & just about every other British airport. Why aren't they there? Put quite simply it would be an expense that the BAA is not prepared to pay for. That's how much the Government & the BAA care about our safety: it has a price limit on it.
T5 was definitely needed to cope with the projected rise in traffic at the airport but those projections may yet be proved to be flawed enough to warrant it as yet another massive waste of money. Will somebody in authority please listen to the real experts, i.e., the passengers & staff who have to deal with this hell hole of an airport regularly & not whisked through via The Hounslow Suite. If something isn't done to alleviate the chaos that ensues every damn time that you set foot in the place it will lose insurmountable ground to its near European neighbours as a world wide hub.
Join Date: Mar 2002
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In fairness to BAA, I think it should be remembered that the UK's ridiculous political and planning permission process for essential public services like Heathrow T5 led to an unacceptable delay in the introduction of this part of the solution to Heathrow's problems. Lack of political will to address these issues until we absolutely have to is what leads to this kind of mess. Runway 3 is another example. Wouldn't happen in France - "essential national interest".
The reality is that we are decades late in the provision of world class facilities at Heathrow and, ultimately, responsibility for that lies with HMG. Trouble is, when you warn them they are late they stick their head in the sand and deny it. Therefore I think BAA should be cut a little slack - for a brief period.
.4
The reality is that we are decades late in the provision of world class facilities at Heathrow and, ultimately, responsibility for that lies with HMG. Trouble is, when you warn them they are late they stick their head in the sand and deny it. Therefore I think BAA should be cut a little slack - for a brief period.
.4
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In fairness to BAA, I think it should be remembered that the UK's ridiculous political and planning permission process for essential public services like Heathrow T5 led to an unacceptable delay in the introduction of this part of the solution to Heathrow's problems. Lack of political will to address these issues until we absolutely have to is what leads to this kind of mess. Runway 3 is another example. Wouldn't happen in France - "essential national interest".
The reality is that we are decades late in the provision of world class facilities at Heathrow and, ultimately, responsibility for that lies with HMG. Trouble is, when you warn them they are late they stick their head in the sand and deny it. Therefore I think BAA should be cut a little slack - for a brief period.
.4
The reality is that we are decades late in the provision of world class facilities at Heathrow and, ultimately, responsibility for that lies with HMG. Trouble is, when you warn them they are late they stick their head in the sand and deny it. Therefore I think BAA should be cut a little slack - for a brief period.
.4
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@ CWATTERS that's got nothing to do with terminal 5, but more to do with the 'open skies' agreement which is a load of tosh anyway.
IAH/DFW and prob ATL will come from gatwick to heathrow
IAH/DFW and prob ATL will come from gatwick to heathrow
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X Centric - I hope you took the Taxi number and reported it. That is blatant theft. The driver is NOT allowed to charge what he wants and should have charged what was shown on the meter. I am not sure what the exact distance is but Black cabs have to carry you within a certain distance of LHR even if you are not heading into the City. I had this happen some years ago with a Taxi ride to Pylle, I paid what was on the meter, the driver got no tip and I reported the incident. The driver is no longer a Taxi driver!!