NEWQUAY

[Flightrider]

Well Newquay not far from Gatwick in a jet, and if we can we might be able to push the other operator off the route and there might be more slots available at Gatwick for us to snap up

Very much doubt that this enters the thinking. If you knew the BA operation at Gatwick, you would know that they have been down-sizing for several years now - down from 53 short-haul aircraft (at the time of the BA/CityFlyer integration - 34 x 737s and 19 x RJ100/ATR72s) down to 31 operational 737s today. This has reduced BA's percentage of slots at LGW from +40% down to less than 30% and those slots have largely been taken up by easyJet. BA has no shortage of slots at LGW and if it had, it would hardly have been helping airlines like Malev to obtain peak-hour LGW slots. It certainly doesn't need the Air Southwest slots or, moreover, for those slots to go to any of BA's competitors like easyJet.

It's fascinating that everyone still thinks there must be an ulterior motive behind BA's moves despite the numbers in my earlier posting.

[San Expiry]

'Hang on a minute, Willy. Used to have this Gatwick-Newquay route but there was no way on this God's earth we could make it pay with a fuel-sipping Dash8. I've got it, let's have a go but this time..............a Boeing 737! And nuts to that little airline we helped to set up.'

[manx crab]

GBALU53

If that was the case, would they have not kept the INV and IOM routes for the slots.

[Globaliser]

Has the LON-NQY market perhaps changed since BA last operated it? I've heard it said that NQY has, um, developed as a destination - ironically, partly thanks to RYR.

[Flightrider]

The Dash 8 was dedicated to the PLH-NQY-LGW operation; the route had to carry the full fixed costs of the aircraft and crew; and it was a double-drop operation with PLH, which meant that the DOCs per roundtrip were high due to four landings per roundtrip. I suspect all of this means that the trip cost for a fully-costed Dash 8 is probably not dissimilar to the direct operating cost of a 737 LGW-NQY-LGW where the aircraft + crews are already paid for by other activities. It is not comparing like with like, or anything like it.

With the IOM + INV sale to Flybe, I think you will find that the slots will not be going to an "unfriendly" home who will use them to compete with BA.

[GBALU53]

Dirty Tricks??

I smell a rat with some very bad cheese on this one.

This is not the first time this has happened.

[GROUNDHOG]

Still trying to get my head round this one my immediate feeling though is one of suprise that when the original WOW deal was done there was not a caveat written preventing BA restarting the Newquay to Gatwick route in direct competition - unless of course that time period has expired?
I doubt the extra flight will produce many extra passengers since it is the same market as Air Southwest already serve just everyone will get a smaller slice. Is it good for Newquay?.... Yes in as much as there is now competition on the route so fares will be kept down but arguably Ryanair were already doing that.
Let's see what Michael does next on Stansted.

[Flightrider]

I have to say that I don't remember the last time that this happened.
Gatwick-Guernsey - BA pulled off, Aurigny took over slots/route, BA hasn't returned.
Gatwick-Rotterdam - BA pulled off, TTG took over the slots/route, BA hasn't returned.
Gatwick-Plymouth - BA pulled off, Air Southwest took over slots/route, BA hasn't returned.
Gatwick-Cork - BA pulled off, easyJet/Ryanair later both came onto the route and slugged it out, Ryanair won, easyJet withdrew, BA hasn't returned.
Gatwick-Shannon - BA pulled off, easyJet/Ryanair then slugged it out, Ryanair won, easyJet withdrew, BA hasn't returned.
Gatwick-Newcastle - BA pulling off, Jet2 taking over using slots etc redeployed from MAN/LGW.
Heathrow-Belfast - BA pulled off, bmi increased service then moved to BHD. BA hasn't returned.
Heathrow-Jersey - BA pulled off + increased LGW/JER, bmi starts LHR/JER 26Mar, BA hasn't returned to LHR/JER.
Heathrow-Inverness - BA moved service to LGW, bmi started LHR/INV, BA has maintained service at LGW and to be shifted to Flybe as part of BA Connect transfer. No BA outrageous actions there.
Heathrow-Bremen - BA pulled off, CityFlyer picked up route from LGW, BA pulled off that after taking over CityFlyer. Ryanair/easyJet now in war between STN + LTN for Bremen route, BA hasn't returned.
Heathrow-Hannover - CityFlyer started alongside BA; BA pulled off LHR; BA took over CityFlyer and later pulled off LGW-HAJ as well. Air Berlin quite happy operating HAJ-STN and no sign of BA returning.
Gatwick-Dusseldorf - BA pulled off, haven't returned. New carriers have started inc LH on LCY-DUS.
Gatwick-Munich - BA took over route which Deutsche BA started, haven't returned.
Gatwick-Genoa - old BCal/BUA route operated by BA for years, Ryanair came along on STN-GOA and BA pulled off, haven't returned.
Gatwick-Bilbao - moved from LHR, Go/easyJet came along from STN, BA pulled off and haven't returned.
The only routes which I can think of where BA has operated, pulled off, and then returned to the routes at a later date (like Newquay) are Vilnius, Riga, Zurich and Salzburg. It has since pulled off both of the Baltic routes again and this winter is its first on LGW-Salzburg again, where admittedly it is competing with Thomsonfly. It only went back on LGW-ZRH after easyJet had pulled off due to high airport charges at ZRH.
Compare that to routes on which BA faced no competition in the last ten years and had a monopoly either from LGW or from LON in its entirety, and now faces competition:
Naples (bmi + easyJet)
Verona (Ryanair)
Venice (easyJet, Ryanair, bmi)
Bologna (Ryanair/Forli)
Pisa (Ryanair)
Edinburgh (easyJet LGW)
Glasgow (easyJet LGW)
Inverness (bmi LHR, easyJet LTN)
Marseilles (easyJet LGW)
Toulouse (easyJet LGW, Ryanair CCF-STN)
Bordeaux (easyJet LTN)
Geneva (BA monopoly on LGW, easyJet appeared)
Krakow (every man + his dog)
Nice (easyJet LGW)
Athens (easyJet LGW)
I can't immediately think of any others, but I'd be hard pushed to quote any example of what you seem to be suggesting. Bear in mind that Manx/ BRAL / CitiExpress / BA Connect route planning has been autonomous of Waterside for several years. GBALU53, just out of interest, can you actually suggest where this has happened before? Granted, the above doesn't paint a pretty picture of BA's management of regional routes (or lack thereof). It might well be incompetent, but I can't see that it's predatory.

[footster]

I see today that Newquay Airport has today announced that £11 million pound funding from Europe.This will now leave CCC to borrow £10 million. What does everybody else think of this and do they still have doubts as to whether Newquay will live upto CCC expectations of 800,000 passengers next year.

[EI-BUD]

BA NQY LGW route

Although its hard to now exactly why BA is interested in this route, the debate about the reasons on here is very interesting. I mean NQY would seem like an unlikely destination for BA given previous experience in the market.

The whole noise that Ryanair made about new charges at the airport sounded like FR were going to pull out. And lets face FR tend to squeeze the small airports. With this in mind I can imagine the airport in fear of losing such substantial business offered great incentives for BA.

I also believe that BA wont adversely affect Air Southwest to much. BA will be getting alot of passengers into the system at LGW who will be connecting to BA destinations. BA will not be an option for the business traveller with one rotation a day.

Does anyone on here know or have any ideas on what the proportion of business/leisure passengers use the route?

BA would have this sort of info so I reckon that they would have a good handle on all that setting up the route?

What does anyone else think ? Now if Easyjet had been the operator to launch the route that could have been interesting .. FR may have came on to the same route.!!!

[footster]

As I understand it from local press etc CCC have given FR and ASW very big concessions for using the airport and they are not the only ones. CCC have dug themselves a very big hole in the way in which they have gone about taking on the airport in view of the fact the RAF still wanted St Mawgan as a JFA base.So they can not afford to lose face with this one so they will do what ever it takes to make it look as if it is successfull even given out rediculous concessions.

[propaganda]

Missed Point

Surely, the point must be improved airlinks between the SW & LGW, it's better for the travelling public and the local economies. Air SW can fight their corner on their other regional routes if needs be, fair competition or not. Don't throw your toys out of the pram just yet. Regional airtransport in the UK has to grow as the roads become grid-locked, small operators like Air SW can continue to thrive and serve smaller, more restricted airports., It'll just require a more focused strategy . How much did Branson pay for the rail Franchise.

[Globaliser]

Originally Posted by EI-BUD

Although its hard to now exactly why BA is interested in this route, the debate about the reasons on here is very interesting. I mean NQY would seem like an unlikely destination for BA given previous experience in the market.

Obviously, NQY didn't work for BA before. But that was before FR came in to the market. And time has passed, and Newquay and the surrounding area have developed quite a lot as a short break destination from the London area. So I have been wondering whether BA will effectively be exploiting the traffic in a market that FR has developed but no longer receives enough subsidies to serve?

[captain_flynn]

I don't fully understand why BA has returned to NQY. When they were the only airline providing an air service to Newquay they called it loss making. How do they propose to make a profit when airlines such as Air Southwest, Ryanair and Aer Arann (I think) are providing not only services to London but to other parts of the country too?

[thebeehive]

The only implication is that I guess Air Southwest might move their handling contract at LGW away from BA! Still, given BA's approach to third-party handling at LGW over the last few years, they might see that as a bonus rather than a loss.

As I understand it WOW will move to the South Terminal and be handled by someone else in realction to BA's new NQY route. As for it being a bonus for WOW being handled by someone else, in terms of what they pay yes it may save them a few bob but no way will one of the generic handling conpanies such as Servisair/GlobeGround/Swissport/Circusair etc give the service BA do, especially in terms of in terminal handling.

[EI-BUD]

BA better handling than others.

save them a few bob but no way will one of the generic handling conpanies such as Servisair/GlobeGround/Swissport/Circusair etc give the service BA do, especially in terms of in terminal handling..

The beehive.I am not claiming to know anything about the above statement but a few comments were posted on the bmi or bmed thread stating that bmed crew thought BA handling for their franchise operation were poor enough. Does BA really have a great reputation above of all the others? Anytimes I have flown into or out of LGW the handling has seemed to be seemless enough for FR and others...but then again thats only what I was seeing as a passenger.

[thebeehive]

EI-BUD, my quote wasn't in response to you.
BMED is LHR, not LGW (it's personal opinion) but the LGW handling is better than LHR in my experience when it comes to BA, may come down to the size of the operation but that's my view.
I've flown from the South before numerous times from LGW on a number of different airlines and the handling isn't bad, often very good but as an overall package I believe flying from the North at LGW and being handled in the terminal by BA staff and on the ramp is better than flying from the South and being 'looked after' by a generic ground handler.

[HZ123]

BA ground handling performance is less than satisfactory. In November they lost 30% of their work when GB switched to Aviance. This was due to poor performance.

[thebeehive]

Ground handling at BA isn't great I agree I was primarily talking about use of the North and the BA terminal staff who currently handle WOW.

[Outoftheblue22]

Regarding previous posts about ASW's handling at LGW, I think you will find they are staying in the North Terminal but moving to another handling agent.