Air Southwest
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For someone who claims to have run companies including a airline i am amazed that you could be so insular to believe that "ASW MOVE ITS BASE TO NEWQUAY AND OPERATE AS A CORNISH AIRLINE THEY REALLY WOULD BE A WEST COUNTRY LOCAL AIRLINE" your words not an assumption.
Last time i looked Plymouth and Exeter were in the West Country so ASW being based in Plymouth would fit the requirement of being A WEST COUNTRY LOCAL AIRLINE.
Do you want a JCB or is the spade you are using adequate for digging the hole deeper.
Last time i looked Plymouth and Exeter were in the West Country so ASW being based in Plymouth would fit the requirement of being A WEST COUNTRY LOCAL AIRLINE.
Do you want a JCB or is the spade you are using adequate for digging the hole deeper.
Last edited by trafficnotsighted; 7th Nov 2010 at 18:34.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East sussex
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Pax, ASW about 24 times over the year. Most convenient the 45 min flight LGW/PLH. Took me 5 hours drive, before flying ASW A303 sucks.
Great airline. Richard F/O is always good for a chat before f/d lock down.
D1
ps. I always mention Pprune to the cc, I get a free bag of crisps, most times, best result ever, Plymouth Gin.
Great airline. Richard F/O is always good for a chat before f/d lock down.
D1
ps. I always mention Pprune to the cc, I get a free bag of crisps, most times, best result ever, Plymouth Gin.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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trafficnotsighted - Why so personal?.Where did I say PLH & EXT were not in the West Country? I am aware of the economics of these aircraft thanks. I am English not Cornish so why would I paint out roadsigns? Already got a JCB thanks.End of subject.
Eastern inherited a sick baby, yes its a lovely baby we all adore it and couldn't live without it bu it is also a naughty baby that lost £3.5 million last financial year. Now it has a new Daddy, one with a great reputation as a dynamic parent so Daddy needs to change the way baby lives and cut out its naughty habits.
That big bully Flybe came along and stole some of baby's toys flying between Newquay and Gatwick so now baby has to get them back. How? Well for a start the people down here are a very patriotic lot and always support the local children ( Devon is across the border) so to get those friends to play with baby needs to increase its profile and be seen to be the local ( To Cornwall) child as opposed to the bully boy and for sure the friends will follow......... get the drift?
PS: Being based in Newquay does not stop baby playing in Plymouth or anywhere else so it is not parochial, those nice Uncles in Europe might even give baby a present to come here!.
PPS. Question:- Might SHH nows see PLH as a playpit to put its lego houses long term anyway?
Back down my hole now, gosh its cosy in here.....x
Eastern inherited a sick baby, yes its a lovely baby we all adore it and couldn't live without it bu it is also a naughty baby that lost £3.5 million last financial year. Now it has a new Daddy, one with a great reputation as a dynamic parent so Daddy needs to change the way baby lives and cut out its naughty habits.
That big bully Flybe came along and stole some of baby's toys flying between Newquay and Gatwick so now baby has to get them back. How? Well for a start the people down here are a very patriotic lot and always support the local children ( Devon is across the border) so to get those friends to play with baby needs to increase its profile and be seen to be the local ( To Cornwall) child as opposed to the bully boy and for sure the friends will follow......... get the drift?
PS: Being based in Newquay does not stop baby playing in Plymouth or anywhere else so it is not parochial, those nice Uncles in Europe might even give baby a present to come here!.
PPS. Question:- Might SHH nows see PLH as a playpit to put its lego houses long term anyway?
Back down my hole now, gosh its cosy in here.....x
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Groundhog - No offence meant but some of your statements came across as if written by a insular Cornishman and did not make sense, aswell as being geographically incorrrect.
The funny thing about all this is that they will undoubtably loose that West Country Local tag in a couple of years when Eastern dilute the west country influence and you could see them being based in Newquay with all the land being sold off at Plymouth airport. I believe 25,000 signed a petition to save the dockyard ,will there be the same media coverage and outcry about the airport in Plymouth i doubt it.
Letting a development company take the lease of the airport in plymouth was like
asking a wolf to look after some sheep. The councillors who agreed to that should be
shot.
Don't hold your breath on getting EU money for Newquay, i'd be more concerned
on Cornwall County Council having the money to keep it going.
The funny thing about all this is that they will undoubtably loose that West Country Local tag in a couple of years when Eastern dilute the west country influence and you could see them being based in Newquay with all the land being sold off at Plymouth airport. I believe 25,000 signed a petition to save the dockyard ,will there be the same media coverage and outcry about the airport in Plymouth i doubt it.
Letting a development company take the lease of the airport in plymouth was like
asking a wolf to look after some sheep. The councillors who agreed to that should be
shot.
Don't hold your breath on getting EU money for Newquay, i'd be more concerned
on Cornwall County Council having the money to keep it going.
Last edited by trafficnotsighted; 7th Nov 2010 at 22:54.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Devon
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Successive Councills have missed the boat as far as Plymouth Airport goes in turning it into a well established and big airport. Even back as far as the end of the 2nd World War when the MOD offered Plymouth Council the chance of taking over RAF Harrowbeer at Yelverton and they refused. It is my beleif that giving SHH the lease for the airport was a good get out clause for the council because if it does shut and it wouldnt surprise me the blame would fall on SHH and the council would have a clean pair of hands blaming SHH. And after all there is more money in selling land for development than using it as a part time airfield so SHH have hit on a little gem as redevelopment is there main field of interst.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Anyone know the reason why Plymouth-Newcastle was stopped? It does better then Leeds, Jersey, Dublin, Cork and Gurnsey.
Wonder if there will be any other chnages or routes to follow!
Wonder if there will be any other chnages or routes to follow!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I would imagine it was stopped because it was making a loss for the airline? They could have filled the plane every week but if people were buying tickets at rock bottom prices and the route was a loss maker it was only a matter of time before it was canned. No good looking just at numbers on the route, you need to look at the yield and that is only information certain airline staff would have.
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Groundhog - you really ought to give up on the whole Flybe are bully rubbish. The facts are they competed on a route, passengers jumped ship because the service was better so the other airline lost out. Simples....if passengers down your end of the country are patriotic and loyal they would have stuck with ASW would they not??
You are living in a dreamworld, there is no other way of putting it. ASW and Eastern I am sure have plenty of tricks up their sleeves, they have ideal sized aircraft for regional services so we shall just have to wait and see.
You are living in a dreamworld, there is no other way of putting it. ASW and Eastern I am sure have plenty of tricks up their sleeves, they have ideal sized aircraft for regional services so we shall just have to wait and see.
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passengers jumped ship because the service was better
theres only one reason that asw lost pax to flybe MONEY!!! its widely know that flybe are running there nqy - lgw at a massive loss (rumoured to be 2.5 m a year) passengers will take the cheaper option everytime. the reason flybe are doing this is simple - to get rid of the competition who cant competie with an airline that sells tickets at a loss. As soon as asw pull off the lgw route flybe will have controll of all devon and cornwall and there prices will shoot up
in basic terms flybe are doing what tesco did to the local milk man.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Those that suspect, or believe that the comments above are accurate are unlikely to have their opinions changed but this is a free market economy.
If Flybe wish to run their services NQYLGW it is for them to decide at what price they choose to do so. Whether it is morally correct for them to do so at an overall loss may be questionable but this is the market we're now in and it is how the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair, and also Flybe have grown so quickly, often to the benefit of all. I'm not sure you can support competition and then complain about the result when it comes.
Irrespective of all this, the OFT have recently announced that they will not be taking any action against Flybe as a result of ASW's allegations that their arrival on the NQYLGW service was predatory behaviour. That just leaves those of us on here to draw our own personal opinions which I am sure will remain divided.
If Flybe wish to run their services NQYLGW it is for them to decide at what price they choose to do so. Whether it is morally correct for them to do so at an overall loss may be questionable but this is the market we're now in and it is how the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair, and also Flybe have grown so quickly, often to the benefit of all. I'm not sure you can support competition and then complain about the result when it comes.
Irrespective of all this, the OFT have recently announced that they will not be taking any action against Flybe as a result of ASW's allegations that their arrival on the NQYLGW service was predatory behaviour. That just leaves those of us on here to draw our own personal opinions which I am sure will remain divided.
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Cloud 1
If you'd bothered to read Groundhogs posts properly you'd see that he currently does tend to use Flybe on price. So please leave the "you've criticised Flybe, how very dare you" spiel for the not insignificant minority who do it elsewhere on these boards.
If your management want to pour money down the drain by charging loss making prices on a route, that's their choice. But please don't assume people use you because ASW offer an inferior product. No, actually, you carry on living in cloud cuckoo land.
If your management want to pour money down the drain by charging loss making prices on a route, that's their choice. But please don't assume people use you because ASW offer an inferior product. No, actually, you carry on living in cloud cuckoo land.
This debate is quite unbelievable. Air Southwest operate a Dash 8-300 with 50 seats, two engines, two pilots, one cabin crew and to deliver every Gatwick-Newquay flight, they run three sectors due to the stop at Plymouth.
Flybe operate a Dash 8-400 with 78 seats, two engines, two pilots, two cabin crew and to fly between Newquay and Gatwick, they don't have the extra landing/handling fees and additional sector-related maintenance costs of a stop at Plymouth.
Flybe ought to be able to produce seats between Gatwick and Newquay at a significantly lower price - and therefore be able to sell them at a significantly lower price - than Air Southwest. It's straightforward economics and there is nothing predatory about that. If they can't, then they must be doing something seriously wrong.
I fly to Newquay once or twice a year. I prefer to fly with an airline which has non-stop services and charges me a lower fare. I would not put myself in the category of being an aero-masochist who would pay extra for the privilege of a dive-bomber approach into Plymouth and landing in gusting crosswinds which was thoroughly unpleasant when I last had the misfortune to do it. I suspect most other passengers would feel the same way.
Flybe operate a Dash 8-400 with 78 seats, two engines, two pilots, two cabin crew and to fly between Newquay and Gatwick, they don't have the extra landing/handling fees and additional sector-related maintenance costs of a stop at Plymouth.
Flybe ought to be able to produce seats between Gatwick and Newquay at a significantly lower price - and therefore be able to sell them at a significantly lower price - than Air Southwest. It's straightforward economics and there is nothing predatory about that. If they can't, then they must be doing something seriously wrong.
I fly to Newquay once or twice a year. I prefer to fly with an airline which has non-stop services and charges me a lower fare. I would not put myself in the category of being an aero-masochist who would pay extra for the privilege of a dive-bomber approach into Plymouth and landing in gusting crosswinds which was thoroughly unpleasant when I last had the misfortune to do it. I suspect most other passengers would feel the same way.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Cloud 1 - sorry but as oapilot indicates you have totally misread my post. I am coming up country next week and for two pax and hand baggage it is thirty pounds less with Flybe than ASW. No contest.I am delighted that Flybe have added competition on the route it has meant I can travel for less and yes I know that if and when ASW crack Flybe will raise prices again.
To survive on NQY/LGW ASW will have to make the most of any marketing advantage it can that is not cost related for they will never beat Flybe on price alone. I can see no other way other than increasing the profile of the 'localness' to Cornish passengers and that will never be done being based in Plymouth or Humberside.
It must be remembered Air Southwest came about because SHH needed to support its airport at PLH when BA pulled its non jet fleet, At that time NQY/LGW was one of if not the most profitable domestic routes BA operated. That is far from the situation today.
It isn't about how nice the people are, how pretty the aircraft is, how big or how small. it is the bottom line of the balance sheets that will dictate who will ultimately survive this route.
To survive on NQY/LGW ASW will have to make the most of any marketing advantage it can that is not cost related for they will never beat Flybe on price alone. I can see no other way other than increasing the profile of the 'localness' to Cornish passengers and that will never be done being based in Plymouth or Humberside.
It must be remembered Air Southwest came about because SHH needed to support its airport at PLH when BA pulled its non jet fleet, At that time NQY/LGW was one of if not the most profitable domestic routes BA operated. That is far from the situation today.
It isn't about how nice the people are, how pretty the aircraft is, how big or how small. it is the bottom line of the balance sheets that will dictate who will ultimately survive this route.
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Going back to the late 70's, early 80's, British Midland, then Brymon, operated NQY/LHR/NQY (direct flights) utilising a 50 seat HP7, certainly when Brymon were operating the HP7 they received loyalty from the Cornish locals and load factors were probably around 65-70%, meanwhile Brymon operated a Twotter PLH/LGW/PLH and, later, a DHC7 PLH/LHR/PLH.
When the HP7 became sold, to help finance the DHC7's purchase, Brymon combined the NQY route with the PLH DHC7, there was uproar from the Cornish locals, that I doubt has even been forgiven, that their direct (to or from) LHR service had been taken away from them and passengers voted with their feet.
Then on to the scene come BA, famous for taking LHR slots, they did it to Manx and they did it to Brymon, why the PLH/NQY London service, now PLH has something of a longer runway, has not reverted back to split services I don't know, Air SouthWest have had plenty of opportunity to offer the Cornish their direct London service, they didn't and FlyBE step in to the breach, who is wrong, the Cornish locals, FlyBE or Air SouthWest?
BUT .... LGW is not LHR, LGW simply does offer the connections that LHR offers, what might be needed is a codeshare agreement with the likes of AF/KL and a service to AMS or CDG offered whereas passengers can step off one aircraft and step on to another aircraft and without farting around between LGW and LHR.
When the HP7 became sold, to help finance the DHC7's purchase, Brymon combined the NQY route with the PLH DHC7, there was uproar from the Cornish locals, that I doubt has even been forgiven, that their direct (to or from) LHR service had been taken away from them and passengers voted with their feet.
Then on to the scene come BA, famous for taking LHR slots, they did it to Manx and they did it to Brymon, why the PLH/NQY London service, now PLH has something of a longer runway, has not reverted back to split services I don't know, Air SouthWest have had plenty of opportunity to offer the Cornish their direct London service, they didn't and FlyBE step in to the breach, who is wrong, the Cornish locals, FlyBE or Air SouthWest?
BUT .... LGW is not LHR, LGW simply does offer the connections that LHR offers, what might be needed is a codeshare agreement with the likes of AF/KL and a service to AMS or CDG offered whereas passengers can step off one aircraft and step on to another aircraft and without farting around between LGW and LHR.
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groundhog - sorry if I missed your point, although dont recall me saying anything about you personally using Flybe or ASW.....I just want everyone to get over the whole Flybe are a bully b*lloc*s.
May be I was confused by all the baby and daddy nonsense but the jist of the post I got was that ASW started up, 'bully' Flybe came in and stole some of their 'patriotic' passengers, so ASW have to get them back??? This was why I responded and the point I am trying to make is that ASW just need to up their game be it in their product or route network.
Oapilot - get back in your box and stay there.
And please do not refer to me as the plank, the tone of your email is no better. I didn't say their product was inferior, but it was not as good as what BE were offering at the time. Look at the number of benefits available when BE route was launched - Interline ticketing, a business/eco+ ticket, a frequent flyer programme. ASW had none of these things back then
May be I was confused by all the baby and daddy nonsense but the jist of the post I got was that ASW started up, 'bully' Flybe came in and stole some of their 'patriotic' passengers, so ASW have to get them back??? This was why I responded and the point I am trying to make is that ASW just need to up their game be it in their product or route network.
Oapilot - get back in your box and stay there.
And please do not refer to me as the plank, the tone of your email is no better. I didn't say their product was inferior, but it was not as good as what BE were offering at the time. Look at the number of benefits available when BE route was launched - Interline ticketing, a business/eco+ ticket, a frequent flyer programme. ASW had none of these things back then