Air Southwest
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lincolnshire UK
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Last PLH Service
Yep, gutted I couldn't be on the last BRS-PLH tonight.
Hope the party went well and I look forward to seeing some photos...
Good luck to all at PLH & NQY.
Hope the party went well and I look forward to seeing some photos...
Good luck to all at PLH & NQY.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Sad day indeed and at the risk of making it even sadder can I ask we also remember the late Jim Cameron and wonder what his thoughts would be today. Loss of a historic airport and a real gentlemen.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pass?
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My sentements too, sad to see ASW go and the late Jim Cameron.
One of the UK's aviation gentlemen.
Our industry is facing even bumpier skies ahead I think.
I wish all at ASW and Plymouth all the best.
One of the UK's aviation gentlemen.
Our industry is facing even bumpier skies ahead I think.
I wish all at ASW and Plymouth all the best.
Last edited by tallaonehotel; 29th Jul 2011 at 10:21. Reason: spelling...
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Haven't the ASW staff been through enough?
A move to Humberside would be like a move to the Isle of Man....
We have all been in the same position before, and it won't be the last.
A move to Humberside would be like a move to the Isle of Man....
We have all been in the same position before, and it won't be the last.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Coventry
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Farewell from Plymouth
On behalf of your catering team at PLH we'd like to wish all ground staff and crew all the very best for the future. It has been our pleasure to be of service to you.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Hello EGHQ
You raise some interesting points, my friend. Speaking from my vantage point, as an experienced operator at regional airports, I would say Plymouth's best future as an airfield is to become totally GA-focused and ignore the needs of the fare-paying passenger. Commercial passenger operations add a raft of cost which is not sustainable there. A well-managed GA aerodrome, like Shoreham, can be sustainable with the right operating model and then, of course, it will attract non-scheduled business traffic as the bonus.
I think the terminal building, with some re-modelling, lends itself to becoming an 'instant office' type operation for small businesses, with a small area designated for aviation movements. Probably everything under the tower could do that job quite nicely.
I think the terminal building, with some re-modelling, lends itself to becoming an 'instant office' type operation for small businesses, with a small area designated for aviation movements. Probably everything under the tower could do that job quite nicely.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: cornwall, uk
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Hi Skypartners
what does this mean for your operation at PLH, closed down ? job losses ?
what of your operation at NQY ? closure and job losses? what do you see happening in the next 12 or 18 months at NQY ?
cs
what does this mean for your operation at PLH, closed down ? job losses ?
what of your operation at NQY ? closure and job losses? what do you see happening in the next 12 or 18 months at NQY ?
cs
Join Date: Nov 2005
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This was posted in the local morning news paper
Air Southwest has been widely criticised for leaving Plymouth without an airlink. Yet the company’s former compliance and safety manager, Keith Boxall, believes the blame lies elsewhere.
It's about time that somebody told the truth about the demise of the airline that served Plymouth. For weeks now Air Southwest has been blamed for "pulling out" of Plymouth, when actually it was forced out and also forced into closure.
Airport Sutton Harbour Group lost staff after its announcement that the airport would close in December
Sutton Harbour Group lost staff after its announcement that the airport would close in December
The first problem was a "turf war" with Flybe on the Newquay to Gatwick route. This route was the most popular of Air Southwest's routes but Flybe persistently operated its aeroplanes over that route at very low fares. The effect of this was to force Air Southwest to offer similar fares or come off the route.
Air Southwest took Flybe to court in 2010 alleging unfair trading but lost and as there was no possibility of charging a realistic fare (which would still have been cheaper than the train), the route to Gatwick from Plymouth via Newquay by Air Southwest was closed.
Another nail in the coffin was hammered in by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and UK National Air Traffic Services (NATS). In early 2009 the UK airspace rules were aligned with those in Europe. Plymouth (and Newquay) is outside of what is known as "controlled airspace". Both airports have Air Traffic Control (ATC) but this is only for aircraft taking off and landing at the airports. There is no ATC for aircraft flying into and out of the South West, west of a line from Exeter to Bristol.
Until 2009, the UK had rules that provided a degree of ATC in areas outside of controlled airspace, but under the European rules this was no longer permitted and as such, discontinued.
The CAA was concerned about the safety of aircraft carrying passengers flying outside of controlled airspace, and demanded that all airlines flying in this airspace carried out a safety risk assessment concerning the probability of a mid-air collision.
Air Southwest carried out this risk assessment and determined that the risk was unacceptably high during times when Plymouth Military radar (run by the Royal Navy and which provided an ATC radar service to Plymouth airport) was closed. Newquay, on the other hand was less affected as it had its own radar which operated all the time the airport was open.
The owner of Plymouth Airport, Sutton Harbour Group, was asked by Air Southwest (which it also owned at that time) to put in a radar service at Plymouth. The most cost effective way of achieving this would have been to have paid the Royal Navy to provide radar information from the radar set at Wembury into the ATC tower at Plymouth. At the same time Air Southwest asked the CAA and NATS to establish controlled airspace in the form of an air corridor from Exeter to Plymouth and on to Newquay. This was refused.
Air Southwest then asked that special procedures should be applied to aircraft flying near Plymouth, but this was also refused. Air Southwest then asked for a note to be put on air navigation charts warning other pilots of the possibility of encountering their aircraft near Plymouth, but even this simple safety measure was also refused.
Having exhausted every avenue through the CAA and NATS, it was left to Sutton Harbour to make a decision and spend a relatively small amount of money on the radar link to Wembury. This too was finally refused last year, despite the sale of a large portion of the airport by Sutton Harbour, for housing development.
Throughout 2010 Air Southwest (and the airport) was starved of investment by the owners. The airline had plans for a sixth aeroplane, new routes (the London City route was one) and to bring the maintenance of the aeroplanes into Air Southwest (it had previously been contracted to British International at Plymouth). All these were abandoned by Sutton Harbour Group.
Eventually, Air Southwest was put up for sale and was finally "given away" to Eastern Airlines in December 2010. Eastern sold the three Dash-8 aeroplanes that Air Southwest owned outright, to an aeroplane leasing company and then leased them back. Two of these were subsequently returned to the lease company, leaving just three. One of these was also planned to be returned later in 2011. It seemed to me that Eastern had no intention of continuing the air service into Plymouth and Newquay, but instead effectively based the aeroplanes at Aberdeen to service their oil company contracts. Redundancies followed.
Coupled to this, Sutton Harbour Group had rather unwisely announced that the airport would close in December. All this did was to encourage the airport staff to look for other work. As most of them were highly qualified ATC, fire and security staff, they left in droves. This effectively has reduced the airport manning to a level that is unacceptable for passenger flights out of Plymouth.
Both Sutton Harbour Group and Eastern Airways have been aware that the RN radar unit shuts down for the whole of August. It has done so every year for donkey's years. But with the airspace rule change, the adverse safety risk assessment and the refusal of the authorities and Sutton Harbour Group to do anything about the situation, suspension of the flights in and out of Plymouth throughout August was inevitable.
This will now hasten the demise of the airport. Likewise, the loss of income (albeit much reduced by route closures and insufficient aeroplanes) to Air Southwest, has given Eastern the excuse to pull out of the South West altogether.
It is now inevitable that the airport will be turned into more housing that Devonians will not be able to afford and more industrial estates and office blocks that nobody will want to rent. The uncomfortable fact is that Air Southwest went under primarily because Plymothians didn't want it. Who in their right mind will invest in Plymouth now?
Air Southwest has been widely criticised for leaving Plymouth without an airlink. Yet the company’s former compliance and safety manager, Keith Boxall, believes the blame lies elsewhere.
It's about time that somebody told the truth about the demise of the airline that served Plymouth. For weeks now Air Southwest has been blamed for "pulling out" of Plymouth, when actually it was forced out and also forced into closure.
Airport Sutton Harbour Group lost staff after its announcement that the airport would close in December
Sutton Harbour Group lost staff after its announcement that the airport would close in December
The first problem was a "turf war" with Flybe on the Newquay to Gatwick route. This route was the most popular of Air Southwest's routes but Flybe persistently operated its aeroplanes over that route at very low fares. The effect of this was to force Air Southwest to offer similar fares or come off the route.
Air Southwest took Flybe to court in 2010 alleging unfair trading but lost and as there was no possibility of charging a realistic fare (which would still have been cheaper than the train), the route to Gatwick from Plymouth via Newquay by Air Southwest was closed.
Another nail in the coffin was hammered in by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and UK National Air Traffic Services (NATS). In early 2009 the UK airspace rules were aligned with those in Europe. Plymouth (and Newquay) is outside of what is known as "controlled airspace". Both airports have Air Traffic Control (ATC) but this is only for aircraft taking off and landing at the airports. There is no ATC for aircraft flying into and out of the South West, west of a line from Exeter to Bristol.
Until 2009, the UK had rules that provided a degree of ATC in areas outside of controlled airspace, but under the European rules this was no longer permitted and as such, discontinued.
The CAA was concerned about the safety of aircraft carrying passengers flying outside of controlled airspace, and demanded that all airlines flying in this airspace carried out a safety risk assessment concerning the probability of a mid-air collision.
Air Southwest carried out this risk assessment and determined that the risk was unacceptably high during times when Plymouth Military radar (run by the Royal Navy and which provided an ATC radar service to Plymouth airport) was closed. Newquay, on the other hand was less affected as it had its own radar which operated all the time the airport was open.
The owner of Plymouth Airport, Sutton Harbour Group, was asked by Air Southwest (which it also owned at that time) to put in a radar service at Plymouth. The most cost effective way of achieving this would have been to have paid the Royal Navy to provide radar information from the radar set at Wembury into the ATC tower at Plymouth. At the same time Air Southwest asked the CAA and NATS to establish controlled airspace in the form of an air corridor from Exeter to Plymouth and on to Newquay. This was refused.
Air Southwest then asked that special procedures should be applied to aircraft flying near Plymouth, but this was also refused. Air Southwest then asked for a note to be put on air navigation charts warning other pilots of the possibility of encountering their aircraft near Plymouth, but even this simple safety measure was also refused.
Having exhausted every avenue through the CAA and NATS, it was left to Sutton Harbour to make a decision and spend a relatively small amount of money on the radar link to Wembury. This too was finally refused last year, despite the sale of a large portion of the airport by Sutton Harbour, for housing development.
Throughout 2010 Air Southwest (and the airport) was starved of investment by the owners. The airline had plans for a sixth aeroplane, new routes (the London City route was one) and to bring the maintenance of the aeroplanes into Air Southwest (it had previously been contracted to British International at Plymouth). All these were abandoned by Sutton Harbour Group.
Eventually, Air Southwest was put up for sale and was finally "given away" to Eastern Airlines in December 2010. Eastern sold the three Dash-8 aeroplanes that Air Southwest owned outright, to an aeroplane leasing company and then leased them back. Two of these were subsequently returned to the lease company, leaving just three. One of these was also planned to be returned later in 2011. It seemed to me that Eastern had no intention of continuing the air service into Plymouth and Newquay, but instead effectively based the aeroplanes at Aberdeen to service their oil company contracts. Redundancies followed.
Coupled to this, Sutton Harbour Group had rather unwisely announced that the airport would close in December. All this did was to encourage the airport staff to look for other work. As most of them were highly qualified ATC, fire and security staff, they left in droves. This effectively has reduced the airport manning to a level that is unacceptable for passenger flights out of Plymouth.
Both Sutton Harbour Group and Eastern Airways have been aware that the RN radar unit shuts down for the whole of August. It has done so every year for donkey's years. But with the airspace rule change, the adverse safety risk assessment and the refusal of the authorities and Sutton Harbour Group to do anything about the situation, suspension of the flights in and out of Plymouth throughout August was inevitable.
This will now hasten the demise of the airport. Likewise, the loss of income (albeit much reduced by route closures and insufficient aeroplanes) to Air Southwest, has given Eastern the excuse to pull out of the South West altogether.
It is now inevitable that the airport will be turned into more housing that Devonians will not be able to afford and more industrial estates and office blocks that nobody will want to rent. The uncomfortable fact is that Air Southwest went under primarily because Plymothians didn't want it. Who in their right mind will invest in Plymouth now?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Even Brittany Ferries have scaled back their operations from Plymouth....Very sad for all concerned although it has to be said that the rot was started by more interference from the God Dammed EU 
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And according to the Plymouth City Airport website there are still flights from Plymouth to Glasgow, Jersey, Guernsey, Dublin, Aberdeen, etc etc.
Even the "live flight information" page shows flight departures for tomorrow - when there aren't any!!
Somebody, somewhere, needs to get a grip on this!
Even the "live flight information" page shows flight departures for tomorrow - when there aren't any!!
Somebody, somewhere, needs to get a grip on this!
Join Date: Jul 2011
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It still shows live flight because there is flights.
Passengers booked on Plymouth flights until September 14 are being taken by bus to Newquay. When people here said about the last ASW flight from Plymouth they meant the last Dash 8 flight.
Passengers booked on Plymouth flights until September 14 are being taken by bus to Newquay. When people here said about the last ASW flight from Plymouth they meant the last Dash 8 flight.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Good point LN!
I think what Hostie is getting at is the fact that after 20+ years, G-WOWA was the last of its type on the UK register.
Another fun to fly aeroplane bites the dust.... unless of course Aero Mad, you know different!
I think what Hostie is getting at is the fact that after 20+ years, G-WOWA was the last of its type on the UK register.
Another fun to fly aeroplane bites the dust.... unless of course Aero Mad, you know different!
