BIRMINGHAM
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HLX
Fried_Chicken
One reservation system shows the winter as 5 per week as now, same
days but all 73G's. The Thursday flight comes in line timings wise with
Fri, Sun, Mon & Wed at about 19.45 ish (sorry forgot to write it down).
Not heard anything about double daily. Daily NE Krakow is rumoured
from summer 2007 - the two a week is simply not enough to attract
"all types of pax".
OltonPete
One reservation system shows the winter as 5 per week as now, same
days but all 73G's. The Thursday flight comes in line timings wise with
Fri, Sun, Mon & Wed at about 19.45 ish (sorry forgot to write it down).
Not heard anything about double daily. Daily NE Krakow is rumoured
from summer 2007 - the two a week is simply not enough to attract
"all types of pax".
OltonPete
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I must disagree here. maybe they were the best agents for screw ups around the airport. Only last week they impaled a set of steps into airbrigde 41 not just once but both sides.
This company call pax to the lounge even before aircrafts leave the out station, meaning pax are stuck in the lounge for hours.
ALSO they send buses to aircraft before crew even arrive at the airport. Fantastic handling.
Calls to PA are also hillarious as HK1 is generally are always being put out as missing on flights and as people in the business know this is an abbreviation for an infant.
[/quote]
I think you are missing the point here. Like I said, it seems that flybe are the curse, not the agent. I'm sure Aviance made very similar mess ups when they were handliing the 'premier' carrier
who have the habit of changing a/c after the pax have been called to the lounge, no fault of any agent. If HK1 has been called over PA, then that is pretty funny! What a wicked name to have!! I guess that can only be put down to inexperienced check in staff, which are always going to be a problem when taking on such a large contract.
This company call pax to the lounge even before aircrafts leave the out station, meaning pax are stuck in the lounge for hours.
ALSO they send buses to aircraft before crew even arrive at the airport. Fantastic handling.
Calls to PA are also hillarious as HK1 is generally are always being put out as missing on flights and as people in the business know this is an abbreviation for an infant.
[/quote]I think you are missing the point here. Like I said, it seems that flybe are the curse, not the agent. I'm sure Aviance made very similar mess ups when they were handliing the 'premier' carrier
who have the habit of changing a/c after the pax have been called to the lounge, no fault of any agent. If HK1 has been called over PA, then that is pretty funny! What a wicked name to have!! I guess that can only be put down to inexperienced check in staff, which are always going to be a problem when taking on such a large contract.
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Wouldn't be so quick to critisise Swissport damaging the airport infrastruture if I were you. I seem to remember a couple of years ago Aviance ramp staff were hitting Lufthansa aircraft at an average of two a week
A couple of sets of steps into an airbridge or vehicles striking a/c on a very regular basis, I know which I would prefer.
A couple of sets of steps into an airbridge or vehicles striking a/c on a very regular basis, I know which I would prefer.
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RE Swissport Flybe Issues
It's not been the ideal start to the contract with Swissport for us.
There have been many problems as there normally is when a handling agent starts a new (big) contract, however i would expect these to have been ironed out by now, yet the service isn't really improving.
The main problems for us is the difference in quality of the Ops departments, we will admit we do change a/c frequently, however we have a high amount of a/c based at BHX and predominantly we operate very short routes, so there is the flexibility to do changes, sometimes unfortunately they are at short notice.
Aviance used to cope extremely well with changes, diverts, etc. They seemed to have the experience to deal with it. Seat plans were always correct, the loaders are excellent at loading our DH4's and the dispatcher's were very clued up. I appreciate with Swissport there are no dispatcher's, but there should have been more extensive training put in place. At the moment my main issue for concern is the Triple A procedures - the Team Leaders complete this (or are supposed to) but they knowledge is very limited, i suspect there are many DFT failures, also we were told the Team Leaders would be made competent and given an 'understanding' of how loadsheets work ( which loaders should have anyway), but as to LMC's, Stab trim settings etc they have no knowledge whatsoever.
Swissport I'm told are certainly not as good as Aviance when it comes to sending Ed's, Mvt's, Ldm's ontime with correct info, i think this is possibly to do with a far more advanced FIND system in use by Aviance and perhaps more experienced staff.
On the whole i think you pay for what you get, I would agree with posts on here that Aviance seem to be the more superior agent's.
On the plus side Swissport do seem to have more staff (perhaps too many) as when i go through the gate onboard, there is normally a good handful there, but if ask them questions none of them seem to know much.
Just to list a few other issues - if your connected to a jetway we have to wait for the 'Apron Supervisor' to tear up in a vehicle to take the bridge off, as the team leaders aren't trained.
If money wasn't always an issue in the aviation industry, I'd go back to Aviance tomorrow.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
There have been many problems as there normally is when a handling agent starts a new (big) contract, however i would expect these to have been ironed out by now, yet the service isn't really improving.
The main problems for us is the difference in quality of the Ops departments, we will admit we do change a/c frequently, however we have a high amount of a/c based at BHX and predominantly we operate very short routes, so there is the flexibility to do changes, sometimes unfortunately they are at short notice.
Aviance used to cope extremely well with changes, diverts, etc. They seemed to have the experience to deal with it. Seat plans were always correct, the loaders are excellent at loading our DH4's and the dispatcher's were very clued up. I appreciate with Swissport there are no dispatcher's, but there should have been more extensive training put in place. At the moment my main issue for concern is the Triple A procedures - the Team Leaders complete this (or are supposed to) but they knowledge is very limited, i suspect there are many DFT failures, also we were told the Team Leaders would be made competent and given an 'understanding' of how loadsheets work ( which loaders should have anyway), but as to LMC's, Stab trim settings etc they have no knowledge whatsoever.
Swissport I'm told are certainly not as good as Aviance when it comes to sending Ed's, Mvt's, Ldm's ontime with correct info, i think this is possibly to do with a far more advanced FIND system in use by Aviance and perhaps more experienced staff.
On the whole i think you pay for what you get, I would agree with posts on here that Aviance seem to be the more superior agent's.
On the plus side Swissport do seem to have more staff (perhaps too many) as when i go through the gate onboard, there is normally a good handful there, but if ask them questions none of them seem to know much.
Just to list a few other issues - if your connected to a jetway we have to wait for the 'Apron Supervisor' to tear up in a vehicle to take the bridge off, as the team leaders aren't trained.
If money wasn't always an issue in the aviation industry, I'd go back to Aviance tomorrow.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
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SWISSPORT FLYBE ISSUES
All i have to say on the matter is just ask mytravel how good swissport are turned them round from bad performing airline with aviance to one of the best on time performance with swissport.And as for the person working for flybe saying he would go back to aviance i think most of the swissport staff would hope flybe would go back to aviance.
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Swissport BHX
Don't even get me started on crew transport! They never bother to bring us back to the terminal when we're on a remote stand! Also on outbound flights i'm often delayed getting to my a/c as they don't have anyone available to take us - thus delaying the flight.
As to the Mytravel issue don't know much about that except when they were with Aviance I believe there were 7 A/C based at BHX which means handling was a lot more demanding, now they only have one a/c based at BHX i think. Hardly a turnaround i would say!!
As to the Mytravel issue don't know much about that except when they were with Aviance I believe there were 7 A/C based at BHX which means handling was a lot more demanding, now they only have one a/c based at BHX i think. Hardly a turnaround i would say!!
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SWISSPORT
I would like to add a reply to ops1978 who is obviously diluded when talking about mytravel. Congratulations on mytravel, well it is not hard when they only have one a/c based and a 1 hour turn-around time on a pesky charter. When aviance were handling them we had 6-7 a/c on the ground and were on maximum turn around time of 35 minutes, both full in and out so on time performance may have slipped occassionly but thats life
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MYT a BHX
Not too much to add to this debate but MYT have two based 320's both doing 2 flights (4 movements) a day Sunday through Thursday, Friday one aircraft does one flight in the morning before positioning out and Saturday they do 3 flights each.
However as it has been stated not a great deal compared to the one
summer (2003 or 2004) when eight were based at times - 767 five days,
one 321 (or 757) and two 320's on IT plus four 320's for mylite.
Okay it was only a few months but sad to see just two 320's.
As for handling agents, the most annoying aspect as a pax at BHX is the time it takes to get off the aircraft at terminal one and I realise that this
is not always the handling agents fault. The times the flight deck have announced sorry for the delay the guidance is not working or the bridge has just broke or the buses have not turned up!
I have found both Aviance & Swissport fine at check-in and at the
gate, even waiting for baggage it has been reasonable most times. Servisair is definitely lagging a little bit compared to the other two
but that is just my personal opinion from a couple of irritating problems
with check-in queues and getting off aircraft.
OltonPete
However as it has been stated not a great deal compared to the one
summer (2003 or 2004) when eight were based at times - 767 five days,
one 321 (or 757) and two 320's on IT plus four 320's for mylite.
Okay it was only a few months but sad to see just two 320's.
As for handling agents, the most annoying aspect as a pax at BHX is the time it takes to get off the aircraft at terminal one and I realise that this
is not always the handling agents fault. The times the flight deck have announced sorry for the delay the guidance is not working or the bridge has just broke or the buses have not turned up!
I have found both Aviance & Swissport fine at check-in and at the
gate, even waiting for baggage it has been reasonable most times. Servisair is definitely lagging a little bit compared to the other two
but that is just my personal opinion from a couple of irritating problems
with check-in queues and getting off aircraft.
OltonPete
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swissport/flybe
Perhaps the answer to all the problems will be to allow despatchers return to all flybe flights.
Then see about us having problems people are seeming to compare us to aviance but we are providing a different type of service ie team leaders not despatchers doing turnrounds. Lowcost operation way of turnround like ryanair if despatchers returned to the flybe flights would see massive improvement. ie crew would be picked up from remote stands on time.
Someone said earlier we have no experience in ops yes we have , we have never had any complaints from any other airline regarding quality of staff in our department.
Then see about us having problems people are seeming to compare us to aviance but we are providing a different type of service ie team leaders not despatchers doing turnrounds. Lowcost operation way of turnround like ryanair if despatchers returned to the flybe flights would see massive improvement. ie crew would be picked up from remote stands on time.
Someone said earlier we have no experience in ops yes we have , we have never had any complaints from any other airline regarding quality of staff in our department.
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I think you need to check your figures a little more carefully for Mytravel. I think you will find that Mytravel Lite went from bottom of the table when handled by Aviance to the top when taken over by Swissport. Unfortunately for the latter company the decision seems to have already been taken to axe Lite before the change of agents.
All the handling agents seem to have the same problems at the moment and that is their ramp departments. You can take your pick of lack of staff, lack of training or lack of motivation. All three seem to suffer from one or more of these but some seem to have more bad days than others. I believe there was an agreement not to undercut each other to get business but this seems to have gone out of the window this summer. The result is that the wages of all the staff are squeezed and we all know what you get when you pay peanuts
I doubt that anything will change until all the handling agents agree to start charging realistic handling fees so that there is enough money available to pay descent wages and give thorough training. Then they might find that they can attract the quality of staff required and keep them rather than have them go where the money is, like stacking shelves at Tesco.
Rant over, getting coat and heading for the door
All the handling agents seem to have the same problems at the moment and that is their ramp departments. You can take your pick of lack of staff, lack of training or lack of motivation. All three seem to suffer from one or more of these but some seem to have more bad days than others. I believe there was an agreement not to undercut each other to get business but this seems to have gone out of the window this summer. The result is that the wages of all the staff are squeezed and we all know what you get when you pay peanuts
I doubt that anything will change until all the handling agents agree to start charging realistic handling fees so that there is enough money available to pay descent wages and give thorough training. Then they might find that they can attract the quality of staff required and keep them rather than have them go where the money is, like stacking shelves at Tesco.Rant over, getting coat and heading for the door
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My flights have been handled by Swissport now for several years. The once top notch service we used to receive in the companies early days is now very average.
As already stated, this is mainly due to the quality, and numbers of staff employed to manage an ever increasing operation. Combined with 'peanuts' being payed by us, the airlines, the result is what we have now.
As for this summer in particular, I personally am finding the ramp operation BETTER than last year. However, the normal early season issues with new check-in staff have carried on FAR longer than they should! These have at times impacted heavily on on-time performance.
If FlyBe can't recognise, and pay, for a despatcher to cover their flights, then they are asking for some of the problems they get. The loaders will never be equal to a good despatcher!
Swissport, along with all agents I come across has a mix of good and bad despatchers. The good ones stand out as being on top of all aspects of the turnround - and are very proactive on your behalf. The bad ones, have no clue of what state different parts of the turnround process are at. They constantly have to be 'chased' to gather and co-ordinate activities that they should be doing automatically.
Who was the station manager these days anyway?
30W
As already stated, this is mainly due to the quality, and numbers of staff employed to manage an ever increasing operation. Combined with 'peanuts' being payed by us, the airlines, the result is what we have now.
As for this summer in particular, I personally am finding the ramp operation BETTER than last year. However, the normal early season issues with new check-in staff have carried on FAR longer than they should! These have at times impacted heavily on on-time performance.
If FlyBe can't recognise, and pay, for a despatcher to cover their flights, then they are asking for some of the problems they get. The loaders will never be equal to a good despatcher!
Swissport, along with all agents I come across has a mix of good and bad despatchers. The good ones stand out as being on top of all aspects of the turnround - and are very proactive on your behalf. The bad ones, have no clue of what state different parts of the turnround process are at. They constantly have to be 'chased' to gather and co-ordinate activities that they should be doing automatically.
Who was the station manager these days anyway?
30W
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Swissport and Aviance
You would be a fool to deny that Swissport are in a mess at the moment. Someone said that they have turned into how Aviance used to be. Lets not forget many of Swissport's contracts came from Aviance (Mon, MYT, CY, FCA) due to airlines dissatisfaction with poor handling from Aviance. Swissport's battle now is to try and regain the quality of service that it did provide before the Flybe contract started (and pretty quick before contracts are lost). Unfortunately the service they offer to their other airlines has declined since April, and quite rightly these airlines aren't impressed and their patience is being tested.
On a positive note in the past, MYT (both lite and charter) were delighted with the improvement in OTP after they changed agents (5 aircraft based at the time some on 40min t/a), Monarch were overall happy with their handling prior to April and Swissport also provided a good level of handling for Duo who had 7 a/c based at bhx (ok it went bust nowt to do with Swissport). Swissport have steadily increased their portfolio of airlines up and till April when it took the large Flybe contract on. Maybe this was a step too far too quickly.
Since April Aviance do probably provide the better level of service, however they have the necessary staffing levels and experienced staff after loosing FLybe (loosing the contract allowed them to loose a lot of their less experienced staff) whilst Swissport have had to employ lots of people off the street. At present Swissport are turning into what Aviance used to be whilst Aviance are re grouping and are providing a good product (see jmc757 post re Aviance). Swissport still have potential to provide a good level of service, but they need to get their act together and quick.
All handling agents are the same, poor pay, lack of resources and insufficient time to allow for training in order to get bums on seats quickly. I think people should be wary of trying to play Avaince against Swissport, they both have the same problems, but they also both have some very capable under paid employee s who often go beyond the call of duty at times to get flight out on time.
As for the Flybe contract, I believe the decision not to have dispatcher's was forced upon BHX from above despite strong local opposition from the idea from all management at BHX. In fairness from what I have witnessed some of the team leaders have done remarkably well after being thrown into the deep end, however I believe a traditional dispatch model would have meant Flybe would have experience a better service up to now.
Anyway sorry to go on but I feel, airlines get what they pay for. If they pay peanuts to all handling agents then the level of service will decline. I think handling agents should stick together more rather than slagging each other off especially when they have the same restraints and experience the same problems. It's not a war.
Rant Over
Herman - Sorry for any spelling mistakes
On a positive note in the past, MYT (both lite and charter) were delighted with the improvement in OTP after they changed agents (5 aircraft based at the time some on 40min t/a), Monarch were overall happy with their handling prior to April and Swissport also provided a good level of handling for Duo who had 7 a/c based at bhx (ok it went bust nowt to do with Swissport). Swissport have steadily increased their portfolio of airlines up and till April when it took the large Flybe contract on. Maybe this was a step too far too quickly.
Since April Aviance do probably provide the better level of service, however they have the necessary staffing levels and experienced staff after loosing FLybe (loosing the contract allowed them to loose a lot of their less experienced staff) whilst Swissport have had to employ lots of people off the street. At present Swissport are turning into what Aviance used to be whilst Aviance are re grouping and are providing a good product (see jmc757 post re Aviance). Swissport still have potential to provide a good level of service, but they need to get their act together and quick.
All handling agents are the same, poor pay, lack of resources and insufficient time to allow for training in order to get bums on seats quickly. I think people should be wary of trying to play Avaince against Swissport, they both have the same problems, but they also both have some very capable under paid employee s who often go beyond the call of duty at times to get flight out on time.
As for the Flybe contract, I believe the decision not to have dispatcher's was forced upon BHX from above despite strong local opposition from the idea from all management at BHX. In fairness from what I have witnessed some of the team leaders have done remarkably well after being thrown into the deep end, however I believe a traditional dispatch model would have meant Flybe would have experience a better service up to now.
Anyway sorry to go on but I feel, airlines get what they pay for. If they pay peanuts to all handling agents then the level of service will decline. I think handling agents should stick together more rather than slagging each other off especially when they have the same restraints and experience the same problems. It's not a war.
Rant Over
Herman - Sorry for any spelling mistakes
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Super Furry,
FCA have never used Aviance at BHX. Years ago, and from their start of operations in 1991, they used MAS (Midland Airport Services). This later became Aviance of course. Before that happened however Groundstar was formed and FCA were their initial customer. For their first summer indeed FCA were their only customer - total bliss......
30W
FCA have never used Aviance at BHX. Years ago, and from their start of operations in 1991, they used MAS (Midland Airport Services). This later became Aviance of course. Before that happened however Groundstar was formed and FCA were their initial customer. For their first summer indeed FCA were their only customer - total bliss......
30W
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mas/aviance
30w you are correct, however much like groundstar/swissport, mas/aviance are both the same animals with the same people owned by different multi national companies.
Swissport are finding the new challenge of flybe challenging enough.
The flybe challenge would be a lot easier if both companies worked in unison together (this is not always the case). Although the services they have been providing has not been great (some may see this as an gross understatement) there are a lot of people trying very hard to make it work from both companies.
The loss of the dispatch function has not helped the situation either, although with minimal training some of the ramp guys have done really well, they never chose their new roles and it was forced upon them. Some would make good dispatchers but some would also prefer to do the job they originally applied for.
Swissport are finding the new challenge of flybe challenging enough.
The flybe challenge would be a lot easier if both companies worked in unison together (this is not always the case). Although the services they have been providing has not been great (some may see this as an gross understatement) there are a lot of people trying very hard to make it work from both companies.
The loss of the dispatch function has not helped the situation either, although with minimal training some of the ramp guys have done really well, they never chose their new roles and it was forced upon them. Some would make good dispatchers but some would also prefer to do the job they originally applied for.
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Swissport
I appreciate Swissport are trying to do their best, however we (pilots) all said they would struggle to cope with such an increase in business, they are not used to being so busy.
Swissport when tendering for the contract insisted the service would be very much the same, but with far less cost (take dispatchers out of the equation), yes certain people on our side were gullable in believing this, but the service should be better than this.
They can keep hiding behind the fact they don't have dispatcher's, but what's the excuse for not sending prompt Ed's and Mvt's by sita, which a 'experienced ops department should be able to manage', constant check in errors, and in general lack of communication.
Swissport when tendering for the contract insisted the service would be very much the same, but with far less cost (take dispatchers out of the equation), yes certain people on our side were gullable in believing this, but the service should be better than this.
They can keep hiding behind the fact they don't have dispatcher's, but what's the excuse for not sending prompt Ed's and Mvt's by sita, which a 'experienced ops department should be able to manage', constant check in errors, and in general lack of communication.