EDINBURGH
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Remember that 12/30 is not really aligned with the prevailing wind and so on windy days it will normally have a significant crosswind component. That coupled with its short length doesn't bode well for any future investment in it. The planned new parallel runway gives the best of both worlds; redundancy and alignment. Minimum investment could see 12/30 continue as overflow apron
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12 / 30 is a handy piece of land, albeit under used and under equiped.
flybe DO use it regularly (12) in the early mornings for departures and I have seen bmi regional make use of it too although not as frequent.
When 24 / 06 was being worked on during 2008, 12 / 30 did come in handy and it was used by the majors - even Birdseed... Comments from the crews were not all bad, and some even enjoyed step-downs and non-instrument approaches / flying!
This is where EDI is worth its weight in gold. It has flexability and potential. EDI has masses of land and open-space available for development. EDI will be sold, as it will generate mega-much needed cash for its current owners. In turn, the new owners will crack on and develop the whole site and attract business that has been thrown away over the years by the BAA, favouring GLA - its head office / airport in Scotland.
Bring it on. The sooner the better. Cant compete with the other BAA monopolies for ever. Stirring up competition is what its all about and it will happen.
** I would say however the decision to scrap the 'airport railway link' was a bad one. Trams are not really the answer - maybe around town, but not all the way out to the airport...
flybe DO use it regularly (12) in the early mornings for departures and I have seen bmi regional make use of it too although not as frequent.
When 24 / 06 was being worked on during 2008, 12 / 30 did come in handy and it was used by the majors - even Birdseed... Comments from the crews were not all bad, and some even enjoyed step-downs and non-instrument approaches / flying!
This is where EDI is worth its weight in gold. It has flexability and potential. EDI has masses of land and open-space available for development. EDI will be sold, as it will generate mega-much needed cash for its current owners. In turn, the new owners will crack on and develop the whole site and attract business that has been thrown away over the years by the BAA, favouring GLA - its head office / airport in Scotland.
Bring it on. The sooner the better. Cant compete with the other BAA monopolies for ever. Stirring up competition is what its all about and it will happen.
** I would say however the decision to scrap the 'airport railway link' was a bad one. Trams are not really the answer - maybe around town, but not all the way out to the airport...
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** I would say however the decision to scrap the 'airport railway link' was a bad one. Trams are not really the answer - maybe around town, but not all the way out to the airport...
A real ball-breaker..one wonders what possessed the SNP government..far better an all UK direct rail link than the really silly trams. And now the SNP are further inconveniencing EDI air travellers with an ''airport'' rail station some 2 kilometres from the airport ..total madness.
A real ball-breaker..one wonders what possessed the SNP government..far better an all UK direct rail link than the really silly trams. And now the SNP are further inconveniencing EDI air travellers with an ''airport'' rail station some 2 kilometres from the airport ..total madness.
Last edited by Joe Curry; 3rd Jan 2009 at 08:29.
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That's right, BAA most definitely favoured GLA when the long haul options opened up from 1990 but the favouritism has gone East in the last few years as GLA has roughly the same transatlantic scheduled service now as PIK did with NWA. Now who would have seen that coming.........?
In truth the more I travel the world, the more I see my old home in a different light. EDI and GLA are two pretty constrained local airports and I have recently changed my mind, I now believe that a proper central Scotland airport connected into the railway network ought to be the way forward. Both GLA and EDI are a public transport nuisance to get to. The least an international visitor should expect is a first class rail connection direct from the airport into town, West to Glasgow, East to Edinburgh. Instead we give them Scotlands most congested motorway and think of building a local tram....
Alas the thought of too many people ( councillors ) losing a "local" airport and Scotlands complete lack of strategic forward planning mean it will never happen in my lifetime. btw the reason I am posting so late is I am still on Tokyo time, where they do know how to build a transport network. It can be done, just clearly not in the country that gave the world so much and watched them go and do it all better.
"Ah kent his faither you know...."
In truth the more I travel the world, the more I see my old home in a different light. EDI and GLA are two pretty constrained local airports and I have recently changed my mind, I now believe that a proper central Scotland airport connected into the railway network ought to be the way forward. Both GLA and EDI are a public transport nuisance to get to. The least an international visitor should expect is a first class rail connection direct from the airport into town, West to Glasgow, East to Edinburgh. Instead we give them Scotlands most congested motorway and think of building a local tram....
Alas the thought of too many people ( councillors ) losing a "local" airport and Scotlands complete lack of strategic forward planning mean it will never happen in my lifetime. btw the reason I am posting so late is I am still on Tokyo time, where they do know how to build a transport network. It can be done, just clearly not in the country that gave the world so much and watched them go and do it all better.
"Ah kent his faither you know...."
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That 'super' central airport already exist at EDI..It is central, it would have been within 30 surface minutes of Glasgow if the original EARL had gone ahead. It would have been linked to the Scotland's Motorway network
if the SNP government had not put that plan on ice recently. - one wonders why they are consistently sabotaging access to Scotland's busiest airport?
- Ok it's in the Edinburgh city boundary..is that such a bad thing? We are talking Scotland here surely?
if the SNP government had not put that plan on ice recently. - one wonders why they are consistently sabotaging access to Scotland's busiest airport?
- Ok it's in the Edinburgh city boundary..is that such a bad thing? We are talking Scotland here surely?
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If it "already exists", which it doesnt, then it would have regular flights to Canada, Florida and the Middle East. It has none of those ( for whatever reason you wish to believe) . But dont tell us it already exists. I think you will also find that even with the proposed EARL, it would have taken a huge chunk ( bearing in mind a large catchment of the Scottish population stays a good bit West than you care to believe, much longer than 30 mins. Infact huge numbers would be driving past local airports to get there. In this day and age - that is just nonsensical. You obviously have great pasion for your local airport, but rose tinted spectacles dont always see common sense.
GLA is my old home town airport as well - and I must say after passing through it a few days ago and despite the new departure and security areas being forced through shops) I still think the airport looks tired....and empty! x2 easyjets and couple of Flybe, 2 globespan and a midland and BA Airbus.
An airport to serve the central belt would I also belive be of the benefit to Scotland.
The travel to and from such an airport is an interesting issue - however many new airports are build well away from centres of population and work very well. Look at Munich - moved from being nearly "down town" back in 1992 and has developed and progressed wonderfully to be consistently climbing up the airport useage charts year on year....yet has only 2 train (S Bahn) lines to the city centre which run every 10 minutes and can take over 50 minuts to reach the city centre. No one seems to be that bothered about such a journey.
Nivsy
An airport to serve the central belt would I also belive be of the benefit to Scotland.
The travel to and from such an airport is an interesting issue - however many new airports are build well away from centres of population and work very well. Look at Munich - moved from being nearly "down town" back in 1992 and has developed and progressed wonderfully to be consistently climbing up the airport useage charts year on year....yet has only 2 train (S Bahn) lines to the city centre which run every 10 minutes and can take over 50 minuts to reach the city centre. No one seems to be that bothered about such a journey.
Nivsy
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If it "already exists", which it doesnt, then it would have regular flights to Canada, Florida and the Middle East
So back to BAA's monopoly ownership? When independent EDI owners introduce these 'regular' flights of yours, we can assume it was BAA's neglect to cater for and encourage them that prevented EDI from "existing"?
So back to BAA's monopoly ownership? When independent EDI owners introduce these 'regular' flights of yours, we can assume it was BAA's neglect to cater for and encourage them that prevented EDI from "existing"?
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A BAA "monopoly ownership" would have been fine if there was only 1 airport in the central belt to look after.
Looks like going that way soon..no monopoly
The airports can then compete against each other. Bring it on
Looks like going that way soon..no monopoly
The airports can then compete against each other. Bring it on
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Reading some of your other posts Joe perhaps you ought to see the world beyond Edinburgh. Maybe in small doses, some fresh air and new ideas. Don't be scared.......here's a secret, EDI isn't the greatest airport in the history of creation. Really.
I have to agree about GLA, was my old stomping ground and tired is really the word that fits best I'm afraid. As opposed to PIK where words fail me at what Infratil have let the Terminal become.....
I have to agree about GLA, was my old stomping ground and tired is really the word that fits best I'm afraid. As opposed to PIK where words fail me at what Infratil have let the Terminal become.....
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GLAGAZ and Skipness...
You sound worried that GLA may indeed suffer from the sale of EDI...
Heres how it is, from someone with 19 years experience in the Global Aviation Industry... Here goes.
GLA took all the glory when PIK was 'wound-down'. BAA Scotland, being based in GLA, naturally moved the longhaul stuff down the road to GLA, all fine and well, no complaints, bring it on and alls well etc etc...
NOW, after years of virtual neglect, EDI has grown, attracted new business and positioned itself as a serious player in the European Airport market. There is still a long way to go and any sale to rid EDI of the BAA would only be a positive thing.
You would equally agree if it were GLA being touted for sale. It is positive for its future.
EDI has had 'limited' investment in recent years - long overdue and not nearly enough.... GLA has had numerous 'upgrades', 'extensions' and 'facelifts' - all before EDI. Why would the BAA invest in both airports, creating a dog-fight. No, they built up GLA at the expense of EDI. The BAA is seriously short of money, and need to recoup much needed funds. Its clear that EDI has the best potential for development, expansion and overall growth - AS THE OFFICIAL PASSENGER FIGURES SHOW..., therfor reflecting in its 'for sale value'
However the sooner EDI is sold, the better. GLA is welcome to rely on 'pocketmoney' handouts from BAA London head office, and fight for its survival with the other BAA airports especially LHR T5.
A new owner at EDI WOULD create competition, attract more business and investment and create an airport with ambition and forward thinking.
Come back in 18 month lads!
PS Iam not affiliated to GLA or EDI particularly
You sound worried that GLA may indeed suffer from the sale of EDI...
Heres how it is, from someone with 19 years experience in the Global Aviation Industry... Here goes.
GLA took all the glory when PIK was 'wound-down'. BAA Scotland, being based in GLA, naturally moved the longhaul stuff down the road to GLA, all fine and well, no complaints, bring it on and alls well etc etc...
NOW, after years of virtual neglect, EDI has grown, attracted new business and positioned itself as a serious player in the European Airport market. There is still a long way to go and any sale to rid EDI of the BAA would only be a positive thing.
You would equally agree if it were GLA being touted for sale. It is positive for its future.
EDI has had 'limited' investment in recent years - long overdue and not nearly enough.... GLA has had numerous 'upgrades', 'extensions' and 'facelifts' - all before EDI. Why would the BAA invest in both airports, creating a dog-fight. No, they built up GLA at the expense of EDI. The BAA is seriously short of money, and need to recoup much needed funds. Its clear that EDI has the best potential for development, expansion and overall growth - AS THE OFFICIAL PASSENGER FIGURES SHOW..., therfor reflecting in its 'for sale value'
However the sooner EDI is sold, the better. GLA is welcome to rely on 'pocketmoney' handouts from BAA London head office, and fight for its survival with the other BAA airports especially LHR T5.
A new owner at EDI WOULD create competition, attract more business and investment and create an airport with ambition and forward thinking.
Come back in 18 month lads!
PS Iam not affiliated to GLA or EDI particularly
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GLA took all the glory when PIK was 'wound-down'. BAA Scotland, being based in GLA, naturally moved the longhaul stuff down the road to GLA, all fine and well, no complaints, bring it on and alls well etc etc...
You got it in one Silverstreak!
You got it in one Silverstreak!
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Actually it was "up the road" to Glasgow not down. The then head of Scottish Airports was wearing two hats as he was also supposed to be in overall charge of BAA Prestwick while doing his best to move all the traffic to BAA Glasgow. Mr Vernon Murphy sir, where did your showpiece long haul hub for Scotland go?
Truth be told GLA gained :
Northwest BOS
Air Canada YYZ YHZ
American ORD
British Airways JFK / EWR / BOS ( not all at once )
United IAD
and then discovered that all those high yielding business men who said they would use long haul from Scotland still preferred to use BAA Heathrow. All of these gains were lost.
The more stable gains of
CO EWR
US PHL ( seasonal )
EK DXB
are still operated. EDI was the poor relation for ages but rather late in the game BAA saw that the growth within Scotland was going to be from the East with growing INBOUND tourism from Europe and a higher profile for the city having Parliament again.
So in short BAA Glasgow shafted BAA Prestwick and left it for dead. BAA Glasgow got a lot of money that would have been just as well spent at BAA Edinburgh and now BAA Edinburgh is getting all the money and the glory and GLA is left with a new security hub that is ten years late and some new shops. This is why monopolies are BAD.
Joe I know this is the Edinburgh forum but I honestly don't think you travel much mate.....it broadens the mind.
Truth be told GLA gained :
Northwest BOS
Air Canada YYZ YHZ
American ORD
British Airways JFK / EWR / BOS ( not all at once )
United IAD
and then discovered that all those high yielding business men who said they would use long haul from Scotland still preferred to use BAA Heathrow. All of these gains were lost.
The more stable gains of
CO EWR
US PHL ( seasonal )
EK DXB
are still operated. EDI was the poor relation for ages but rather late in the game BAA saw that the growth within Scotland was going to be from the East with growing INBOUND tourism from Europe and a higher profile for the city having Parliament again.
So in short BAA Glasgow shafted BAA Prestwick and left it for dead. BAA Glasgow got a lot of money that would have been just as well spent at BAA Edinburgh and now BAA Edinburgh is getting all the money and the glory and GLA is left with a new security hub that is ten years late and some new shops. This is why monopolies are BAD.
Joe I know this is the Edinburgh forum but I honestly don't think you travel much mate.....it broadens the mind.
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Joe I know this is the Edinburgh forum but I honestly don't think you travel much mate.....it broadens the mind.
I have been everywhere possible from EDI, not necessarily on direct
flights. I believe in supporting local jobs and the local economy. why should I
inconvenience myself and jeopardise my neighbour's incomes by travelling
through faraway airports?
Is there a law that dictates otherwise?
I have been everywhere possible from EDI, not necessarily on direct
flights. I believe in supporting local jobs and the local economy. why should I
inconvenience myself and jeopardise my neighbour's incomes by travelling
through faraway airports?
Is there a law that dictates otherwise?
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Presumably the airlines were serving the Glasgow market more than the Edinburgh market at the time and thought it would make sense to set up at GLA.
Could that have been the BAA design? After all there were hardly any facilities in place at EDI that suited them?
EDI has been back-door calmed by lack of regular facilities for larger aircraft, it would be naive to think that the absence of these facilities was because long haul airlines were not interested...they had no choice
We will only see what airlines want and where they want them under competing airport ownerships..until then it's wait and see.
Could that have been the BAA design? After all there were hardly any facilities in place at EDI that suited them?
EDI has been back-door calmed by lack of regular facilities for larger aircraft, it would be naive to think that the absence of these facilities was because long haul airlines were not interested...they had no choice
We will only see what airlines want and where they want them under competing airport ownerships..until then it's wait and see.
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OK Joe we get it you LOVE Edinburgh and it's the centre of your universe.
btw if you click the quotes symbol on the extreme right it puts your quotes into the proper format.....and perhaps one post for everyone that you want to argue with or we could be here all day.
The point that I was trying to make at the start is that the Scottish national interest and your local interests are divergent and in a strategic long term view, the whole GLA / EDI willy waving contest is just so small, so local and embarrasingly Scottish. It's thinking like that, all too typical nowadays that has seen Scotland fall behind her peers in the world.
I honestly think that is the message that should go
Incidentally, no one takes you seriously if punctuate with smilies.
btw if you click the quotes symbol on the extreme right it puts your quotes into the proper format.....and perhaps one post for everyone that you want to argue with or we could be here all day.
The point that I was trying to make at the start is that the Scottish national interest and your local interests are divergent and in a strategic long term view, the whole GLA / EDI willy waving contest is just so small, so local and embarrasingly Scottish. It's thinking like that, all too typical nowadays that has seen Scotland fall behind her peers in the world.
I honestly think that is the message that should go
Back to EDINBURGH..
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The point that I was trying to make at the start is that the Scottish national interest and your local interests are divergent and in a strategic long term view, the whole GLA / EDI willy waving contest is just so small, so local and embarrasingly Scottish. It's thinking like that, all too typical nowadays that has seen Scotland fall behind her peers in the world.
The way I see it is that everyone seemed perfectly happy to discuss EDINBURGH in here until the so called 'willy wavers' decided otherwise.
Perhaps we should be discussing EDINBURGH leaving references to GLA out of it? I'd like to think we were adult enough not to use little personal jibes. Getting back to EDINBURGH, has anyone any comments on the
demolishing of the old RAF barracks at Turnhouse.?
The way I see it is that everyone seemed perfectly happy to discuss EDINBURGH in here until the so called 'willy wavers' decided otherwise.
Perhaps we should be discussing EDINBURGH leaving references to GLA out of it? I'd like to think we were adult enough not to use little personal jibes. Getting back to EDINBURGH, has anyone any comments on the
demolishing of the old RAF barracks at Turnhouse.?