NEWCASTLE

[Jamesair]

The BOH thread is saying that Easyjet have a BOH - NCL route pencilled in for Autumn 07/Spring 08

[sunshine79]

Do you really think BOH-NCL could work, when T3 and BE fly to SOU, which isn't too far away?

[Jamesair]

Not sure really...I suppose there is a big leisure market to BOH in the summer but as you say SOU is very well served by Eastern (business) 3 daily and Flybe (leisure and business) 3 daily.... how easy is it to get from SOU to BOH if you don't have a car?

[FLYboh]

You catch the airport bus from the travel interchange in Bournemouth centre and your nomore than 15 mins from the airport.

I can't see a 156 seat A319 making any money on this route. You'd need a 50 or 70 seat aircraft at most. SOU has domestic routes pretty much sewn up for this part of the UK. I think the talk of an Easy base at BOH of up to 6 aircraft is a little out of proportion!

[Jamesair]

AirSouthwest is also rumoured to be interested in BOH - NCL....smaller aircraft might make more sense.

[skyman771]

Originally Posted by RobT100

.. especially what your saying about the shops and 2 airbridges. This is more what I meant - they need to get the basics in place before they expand like they have

Well as a regular user, the case for more airbridges is accademic!, really totally hacked off no. of times have to get on that bl**dy stupid bus which takes you on a 3 minute ride when arriving at a stand adjacent to the peir. Oh! and to any critic, yes it would probably take one same time to walk down the peir if indeed there was an airbridge on site, BUT you will have not taken in the time for the *Tour Bus* to arrive, stand around waiting for Mrs Cannybody and her tribe of kids to board, prior to departure. No business preference afforded here on arrival.
Further point, not much use the Loco's prefering two door exits when all it does is feed punters into same bus, or if two buses, as they simply both depart at same time anyway.
I note that even MME's expansion plans, if they ever sort out access issues cater for four airbridges.

[RobT100]

Well, yes, i can see what your saying about having to catch a bus around the airbridges, but really it is a joke aint it.
The bigger joke I have is I saw CentreFix25 and GrahamK stood at the approach by the A1 with their binoculors in the air both taking notes for their spotters forums

[10 DME ARC]

Rob T100 - You seem to have a problem with NCL, not only do you slag the airport off in this forum but you have started doing the same in the DTV forum as well? Did we leave the airport un-voluntarily at some point or have you never been short listed for a job here??
The airport is not trying to be a 'Manchester', it is purely trying to bring some choice of direct destinations to the people of the North East! I like many other do not like the 2-3 hour drive to Manchester, especially after a long haul flight. I would gladly take a 2-3 minute bus journey round the pier if it meant I flew from my local airport and did not have to drive 2-3 hours to and from Manchester!!
I would suggest we try to be less critical of our local airport. I for one have travelled through much worse airports, even ones, if you believe Rob, we should be travelling from because the people of the NorthEast do not deserve direct air links!

[Maude Charlee]

Newcastle simply doesn't have the infrastructure in place to support their lofty ambitions, regardless what the travelling public may want. The organisation leaves quite a lot to be desired.

Anyone who doesn't believe it, just observe what happens when they have as few as 4 or more a/c off pier all requiring turnarounds at the same time. Total meltdown. Frankly it's a piss poor performance and it just wouldn't happen at a 'major' airport.

Nothing against NCL, but they really need to learn to walk before they try and run.

[skyman771]

Originally Posted by Maude Charlee

Newcastle simply doesn't have the infrastructure in place to support their lofty ambitions, regardless what the travelling public may want. The organisation leaves quite a lot to be desired.
Anyone who doesn't believe it, just observe what happens when they have as few as 4 or more a/c off pier all requiring turnarounds at the same time. Total meltdown. Frankly it's a piss poor performance and it just wouldn't happen at a 'major' airport.
Nothing against NCL, but they really need to learn to walk before they try and run.

I condone what you say to a point, and NCL's organisation does leave something to be desired. Such a situation will likely happen in any organisation experiencing the growth that has occoured over the last two years, given lead times to raise finance and carry out development.
My issue is, where is the evidence of future planning?, of which the lack of airbridges is a prime example. There was I believe some talk of the possibility of a second pier sometime in the distant future, but is this realisic ? Most people can put up with some inconvenience if they know that it is for the better. Personally I derive little comfort when standing arround in a newcastle airport noddy bus, as I know that little is to change !
As an overview I believe that there is a finite limit imposed on the development at NCL and it's simply down to lack of space, there are simply not enough hectares of land on the current site, and this lack of space leads to incremental development costs for any new project, as not only does one have the new build cost, but also significant costs attributable to rearranging existing infrastructure. You also have the issue of a relatively short runway with a small hill at the end, to which nothing can practically be done. Management simply have to hope that the likes of the 787's of the future come with enhanced performance or suffer more restrictions.
Finally I did not completely agree with Maudes comments about problems of 4 or more aircraft off pier & problems re turnarounds not happening at a major airport......... he clearly has not had the misfortune of suffering an early morning arrival at LHR !

[10 DME ARC]

Get a life people, in the last year I have flown from Manchester twice, one long haul and one IT, the long haul we arrived 0640 and had to wait 40min for a stand! The IT arrived back at 0130 we waited over an hour for our luggage! Then how often do you have to wait for stands at Heathrow or Gatwick?
Can I also say the airport does not ground handle aircraft other than busing handling agents do that, I have parked off pier twice of late and only waited a few minutes each time? The airport have also invested in some new larger bus's in the last few weeks.
I spend most of my working day watching a/c in and out so where's the delays? I am not saying all is perfect but which airport is?

So back to the main point, the airport in not trying to be something it shouldn't! Its a European regional airport with low cost, it has facilities that a lot of low cost airports have not! It gets excellent feed back from customers and has won awards. I have travelled the world over, find me an airport which is perfect!

[Jamesair]

Eastern have now posted the NCL - Cardiff timetable. It is twice daily, in spite of the 3 x daily announcement.
D NCL 0650 and 1700 M - F
A NCL 0950 and 2000 M - F

This leaves an interesting possibility for something between say 1030 and 1600....any ideas?

[AIH849]

There are plans in place to extend the airport further this is why the fuel farm has moved. There is definately the market at newcastle to fly to the like of the carribean mexico north america (NY for eg). And moaning because you have to get the bus to the terminal come on stop being childish. Would u rather walk in the gale force winds and pouring rain, NO!, im sure you wouldnt. So there are also plans to build another pier adjacent to the current one. this will incorporate stands 13,14,15,16, and 17 up to now as far as i know.

[skyman771]

You are all entitled to your views, and some of you may even be comfortable at the current position, but call the airport European regional or whatever, two stands with airbridges out of 25+ really does not wear with me.
Just by digressing from this point, onto how good other areas may be ( I don't dispute this), doesn't make the situation any better.

[GrahamK]

From what I understand, BRS has NO airbridges at all, yet they have a NYC flight.
What people should be worried about though, is why pax figures on the scheduled flights are falling.
A quick look at the airport website shows:

March 2006
Scheduled Domestic 154341
Scheduled International 150227

March 2005
Scheduled Domestic 164447
Scheduled International 144466

So, altogether scheduled pax
March 2006 = 304568
March 2005 = 308913

A decline of over 4000, despite the fact there is more scheduled flights this year, than there was last. Which suggests loads from NCL are on the decline. So instead of worrying about the facilities or future expansion, perhaps better advertising of the routes NCL currently has would be a much better area to look at, to stop this decline in numbers.
BRS has overtaken NCL in annual pax figures recently, so perhaps the Newcastle management should have a look at why Bristol is so successful, in order to get NCL back on track.

Just my 2 pence

[mmeteesside]

Could it be little brother down the road knicking pax?

Seriously though, I don't find NCL too bad airside, within the terminal.....but when you go through onto the pier, it is bloody awful! Very cramped, hardly any space to move! Especially when you have A330's to Orlando/Caribbean going off the end of the pier, it's not like scheduled A330's where you only have 220-ish pax, you have 370-ish on the charters!

Another reason could be (very small reason, but still present) that family want to come to wave dad/mum or whoever off, however, once checked in at NCL, you have no option but to go through security to airside! No facilities to wait around with family etc, no seats or anything! Compare this to MME where you can sit and wait around!

There are good points about NCL though!

mmeteesside

[transwede]

Newcastle must be doing something right, as a hell of alot of growth has been experienced from airlines over recent years. So surely conditions cannot be that bad and with reference to airbridges many airlines do not want to use airbridges as it lengthens the turnaround. Look at the number of airports in Europe that do not use airbridges for all of their flights, even some huge hubs use remote parking so really it is not an issue. I do however agree about the decor in the pier. I sometimes think that it would be better if the interior walls were knocked down, making it open and airy and creating more space for seating as has quite rightly been said when a full A330, even a full 757 is boarding from the bottom end there are not enough seats in the respective lounges.

On another note is it true that Servisair have lost HLX and AF to Swissport?

Maybe in the gap between CWL rotations, Eastern could start INV or NWI?

[10 DME ARC]

Let’s clear up some points;
Air bridges – Yes we don’t have many but who would use them? BA and Britannia at the moment, yes others do but its costs extra to use an air bridge so the likes of Easy wouldn’t! By the way plans are in place to put more in.

Busing from pier stands – This occurs when the likes of Easy arrive international or domestic and depart the opposite i.e. arr from BFS depart to BCN so is parked on an international stand so the arriving pax’s are bussed or vice versa! The airport has to be divided into Domestic, Arriving International and Departing international and never the three to meet!! Not airport instructions but DoT/immigration rules! Add to that the requirement for flights to/from Ireland (north and South) and you get a very complex situation.

Expansion – The airport is always expanding; new stands south side, new control tower, new hotel and this will go on. However the airport has to measure expansion with income, it does not have a bottomless pit of money. The people of the NE want low cost flights but low cost flights do not directly earn the airport a lot of money, hence the need to earn money else where for example parking and shop spend. Plus some expansion does not see direct dividends i.e. our new tower however much it is needed. But you will see further expansion over the next few years don’t worry.

Space – The airport has a lot of space to work with, you may not know but the airport has always had a policy of buying land around it when it comes to market. This you will find means the airport safely owns most of the near land around it and hence can expand subject to planning of course!

Runway – The runway is adequate at the moment. East coast USA and the Middle East being easily possible. New aircraft types are making this easier just look at the A330 in recent years. The cost also again comes into this roughly £1 million per linear metre, think about it! However again the airport has plans should the need arise to do this.

Running an airport is very complex and costly every thing has to be balanced with safety and regulations always coming first. So next time you are on your ‘simply ridiculous’ two minute ride around the apron think why you are doing it! Rant over!

[skyman771]

Originally Posted by 10 DME ARC

Let’s clear up some points;
Air bridges – Yes we don’t have many but who would use them? BA and Britannia at the moment, yes others do but its costs extra to use an air bridge so the likes of Easy wouldn’t! By the way plans are in place to put more in.
Busing from pier stands – This occurs when the likes of Easy arrive . So next time you are on your ‘simply ridiculous’ two minute ride around the apron think why you are doing it! Rant over!

Hang on a bit !, you can put your points as to airport administration from the admin side quite succinctly, and to be honest perhaps thats part of the problem.
All I'm saying is that there are not enough airbridges at Newcastle, the point seems pretty accademic to me. I didn't say there should be a large number & quite understand the necessity for a significant number of remote stands. You can go on about airport X anywhere & their particular situation. If there is a trend towards remote parking at other airports it's simply because it is not practical to build more airbridges as the stands by definition do not have direct access to piers. What you have at NCL is a decent ? pier with plenty of scope for more airbridges (if not the funds).
So no airbridges at BRS, that does not make it a better airport or provide happier & more satisfied punters.
Finally to pick up on your point re two minute bus rides, it may be two minutes, with a ten minute wait for boarding / departure! Still it does provide jobs for bus drivers, more fuel & capital expenditure on ever more buses.
You can never win an argument that from a passengers point of view an airbridge is more acceptable than a bus ride, albeit most passengers, myself included appreciate that in the tight ecconomics of running an airport they are not always available. A response from an administrative perspective to justify as to why there is no need for them simply does not wash with me.

[fl dutchman]

Pax numbers

Originally Posted by GrahamK

From what I understand, BRS has NO airbridges at all, yet they have a NYC flight.
What people should be worried about though, is why pax figures on the scheduled flights are falling.
A quick look at the airport website shows:
March 2006
Scheduled Domestic 154341
Scheduled International 150227
March 2005
Scheduled Domestic 164447
Scheduled International 144466
So, altogether scheduled pax
March 2006 = 304568
March 2005 = 308913
A decline of over 4000, despite the fact there is more scheduled flights this year, than there was last. Which suggests loads from NCL are on the decline. So instead of worrying about the facilities or future expansion, perhaps better advertising of the routes NCL currently has would be a much better area to look at, to stop this decline in numbers.
BRS has overtaken NCL in annual pax figures recently, so perhaps the Newcastle management should have a look at why Bristol is so successful, in order to get NCL back on track.
Just my 2 pence

Could this be due to Easter 2005 being the last weekend of March 2005, wheras Easter 2006 is the first weekend of April 2006