LEEDS
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We're still here!!
ILS 119.5
A great write up there, everything you say seems well thought out and quite frankly correct.
Just a thought...... Living in Yeadon, close to the airport I have recieved various things from the Conservatives and Lib Dems over the last couple of years. Nothing from either has been pro LBA. Everything has just been Anti LBA.
I cannot help but think that The new Lib Dem/ Tory pact at Leeds City Council will help the airport one bit. I hope for all our sakes i'm wrong!!
Flying without wings is not my forte
A great write up there, everything you say seems well thought out and quite frankly correct.
Just a thought...... Living in Yeadon, close to the airport I have recieved various things from the Conservatives and Lib Dems over the last couple of years. Nothing from either has been pro LBA. Everything has just been Anti LBA.
I cannot help but think that The new Lib Dem/ Tory pact at Leeds City Council will help the airport one bit. I hope for all our sakes i'm wrong!!
Flying without wings is not my forte
Last edited by Leodis; 28th Aug 2004 at 22:39.
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Bit of an excercise for you. Go to the news page on the airport site and do a keyword search on the word "Jazz". Short of ideas anyone? Or is there some link between Dixieland jazz and air travel that I'm missing!!
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Hi all,
I have just been discussing with the other Captain and Senior First Officer (who works part time for the company) for the last 10 hours, (or part of it when we were not actually working), the ups and downs of working part time. Working part time means you have more time off however you do not get paid your full salary but paid on a pro rata basis. The point I am making is, why do LBA pay their directors and managers a full salary for working part time. Surely if any of LBA's employees were engaged in duties not involved with the Airport Company during their contracted hours then they should be either made to work their contracted hours for LBA or be paid a part time salary.
For the people who manage LBA, and the Councillors who are supposed to be on the Airport Board overseeing the way LBA is run, would this not make commercial sense? Look at this in two ways, either get more by making part time staff who are paid a salary for working full time actually work full time, or save money by paying the full time staff who work part time a part time wage.
To me this is good business sense. However, knowing how councils waste money then I don't suppose this piece of common sense would ever register into their dormant brains.
Lastly, I must say that the success of LBA will not be governed by the part time management, but it will be by the full time input from the believers, supporters and customers of the airport. When the local elections are due next time and your local council candidate comes around knocking for support, invite them in and ask what they are going to do. Make suggestions as you probably know more than them. If they are not willing to do anything then don't vote for them and tell them so, they will soon get the message.
Another rant from me, but logical I think. it's too hot here so off to the pool for a pre dinner swim.
ILS 119.5
I have just been discussing with the other Captain and Senior First Officer (who works part time for the company) for the last 10 hours, (or part of it when we were not actually working), the ups and downs of working part time. Working part time means you have more time off however you do not get paid your full salary but paid on a pro rata basis. The point I am making is, why do LBA pay their directors and managers a full salary for working part time. Surely if any of LBA's employees were engaged in duties not involved with the Airport Company during their contracted hours then they should be either made to work their contracted hours for LBA or be paid a part time salary.
For the people who manage LBA, and the Councillors who are supposed to be on the Airport Board overseeing the way LBA is run, would this not make commercial sense? Look at this in two ways, either get more by making part time staff who are paid a salary for working full time actually work full time, or save money by paying the full time staff who work part time a part time wage.
To me this is good business sense. However, knowing how councils waste money then I don't suppose this piece of common sense would ever register into their dormant brains.
Lastly, I must say that the success of LBA will not be governed by the part time management, but it will be by the full time input from the believers, supporters and customers of the airport. When the local elections are due next time and your local council candidate comes around knocking for support, invite them in and ask what they are going to do. Make suggestions as you probably know more than them. If they are not willing to do anything then don't vote for them and tell them so, they will soon get the message.
Another rant from me, but logical I think. it's too hot here so off to the pool for a pre dinner swim.
ILS 119.5
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It is a pity that some of the truly excellent postings have been lost with the deletion of LBA Greek summer programme.
But alas,maybe all this is a waste of time anyway.
When I think back over the years about the history of LBA management,I find it totally depressing.
My interest began as a teenager in the in the1960`s.The MD at the time I think was a guy named Sellers. He was an absolutely incompetent idiot when interviewed on TV.
Then in later years,we had a chairman who owned a Reliant Robin, lived in a council house, and spent most of his time in a local low life pub.Nothing wrong with this,but an aviation professional,I think not.
I campaigned for the 1986 runway extension,then later for 24hr flying. This all happened of course but years too late.
Looking at next years charter programme,Majorca for example has been reduced from 9 flights to 6, and no based aircraft from Thomsons,whilst Teeside has a based B738 and the so called joke airport Robin Hood gets a 757.
I cannot see any changes in the future unless the airport is privatised.It will be a miracle if excellent people like BMIfox can create any changes without radical alterations to the management structure and strategy.
It seems the airport is still stuck in a time warp and the current success with Jet2 is down to pure luck.No doubt the management team will dine out on this for several years to come.
wawkrk
But alas,maybe all this is a waste of time anyway.
When I think back over the years about the history of LBA management,I find it totally depressing.
My interest began as a teenager in the in the1960`s.The MD at the time I think was a guy named Sellers. He was an absolutely incompetent idiot when interviewed on TV.
Then in later years,we had a chairman who owned a Reliant Robin, lived in a council house, and spent most of his time in a local low life pub.Nothing wrong with this,but an aviation professional,I think not.
I campaigned for the 1986 runway extension,then later for 24hr flying. This all happened of course but years too late.
Looking at next years charter programme,Majorca for example has been reduced from 9 flights to 6, and no based aircraft from Thomsons,whilst Teeside has a based B738 and the so called joke airport Robin Hood gets a 757.
I cannot see any changes in the future unless the airport is privatised.It will be a miracle if excellent people like BMIfox can create any changes without radical alterations to the management structure and strategy.
It seems the airport is still stuck in a time warp and the current success with Jet2 is down to pure luck.No doubt the management team will dine out on this for several years to come.
wawkrk
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ok.. sorry i thought it was going to be more bad news.
Looking at it.. as has been discussed before there are some alterations but with the addition of Zackynthos, they look roughly the same as this year. It lloks like they have also swapped one spanish carrier for a Tenerife flight that operates late Tuesday, early Wed.
Sorry for the confusion!
Looking at it.. as has been discussed before there are some alterations but with the addition of Zackynthos, they look roughly the same as this year. It lloks like they have also swapped one spanish carrier for a Tenerife flight that operates late Tuesday, early Wed.
Sorry for the confusion!
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A big week for the LBA team to shine. Tomorrow sees the launch of Jet2's CDG service, August passenger numbers should be available and with a following wind should be above 250,000 for the first time and the 8th Jet2 aircraft to be based at Leeds arrived over the bank holiday. Plenty of opportunity to talk about things of more interest than jazz bands, taxi shortages and plaques on walls.
On a wider note, PPrune has undoubtedly brought to light much dissatisfcation with various aspects of how the airport is managed and operated. Some of the criticism is probably justified, some of it is perhaps harsh. Everyone of course is entitled to opinion.
I'd stress though that if you just want to actually want to try and move the debate forward, writing to the council leaders in Leeds and Bradford and the Airport Chair is what's required - not just a general rant on here. Remember the airport is owned by the 5 local authorties and they employ a management team to run the place and also set out a framework for how they want the airport to be run.
If the Councils are telling EA to run the airport to make a nice little profit and attract a reasonable but not expansive range of business, charter and low-cost services and limit growth to its existing infrastrucural capability then one can hardly blame the guy for doing that. In fact if that is the remit, he's doing it very well.
If on the other hand they are telling him to claw back all of the local passengers that use Manchester then frankly, its not been a great success.
You see my point though; the people to complain to are the people in council who are dictating airport policy, not the people who follow their orders.
So don't just let bmifox do all the work writing to the people in the council and don't just wait 2 years until the next round of council elections. There is a lot of valid debate on here but the people that need to hear it are:
Andrew Carter (leader Leeds City Council)
[email protected]
Margaret Eaton (leader Bradford City Council)
[email protected]
Tony Cairns (airport chair)
[email protected]
682
On a wider note, PPrune has undoubtedly brought to light much dissatisfcation with various aspects of how the airport is managed and operated. Some of the criticism is probably justified, some of it is perhaps harsh. Everyone of course is entitled to opinion.
I'd stress though that if you just want to actually want to try and move the debate forward, writing to the council leaders in Leeds and Bradford and the Airport Chair is what's required - not just a general rant on here. Remember the airport is owned by the 5 local authorties and they employ a management team to run the place and also set out a framework for how they want the airport to be run.
If the Councils are telling EA to run the airport to make a nice little profit and attract a reasonable but not expansive range of business, charter and low-cost services and limit growth to its existing infrastrucural capability then one can hardly blame the guy for doing that. In fact if that is the remit, he's doing it very well.
If on the other hand they are telling him to claw back all of the local passengers that use Manchester then frankly, its not been a great success.
You see my point though; the people to complain to are the people in council who are dictating airport policy, not the people who follow their orders.
So don't just let bmifox do all the work writing to the people in the council and don't just wait 2 years until the next round of council elections. There is a lot of valid debate on here but the people that need to hear it are:
Andrew Carter (leader Leeds City Council)
[email protected]
Margaret Eaton (leader Bradford City Council)
[email protected]
Tony Cairns (airport chair)
[email protected]
682
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Valid Point 682ft AMSL
The points you have made are quite justified. I think the problem at LBA though seems to be that the aviation industry changes too quickly for the management to react. I do believe that over the last few weeks the forumers on PPruNe have made the management wake up to those challenges.
I have seen EA a lot more alate, on his foot patrols, things apear to be moving a little now. New additional seats have appeared in the international arrivals meeter and greater area. The empty space there has been filled by a car promotion. It would be better filled by an airline promotion, but its a start.
I just hope that the things happening behind in the vaults of the airport are of an equal scale and that marketing have pulled their finger out and get the ball in motion for some additional charter traffic, if not for S05 then at least W05.
PS. Me thinks Jet2 to Copenhagen next!!!!!
I have seen EA a lot more alate, on his foot patrols, things apear to be moving a little now. New additional seats have appeared in the international arrivals meeter and greater area. The empty space there has been filled by a car promotion. It would be better filled by an airline promotion, but its a start.
I just hope that the things happening behind in the vaults of the airport are of an equal scale and that marketing have pulled their finger out and get the ball in motion for some additional charter traffic, if not for S05 then at least W05.
PS. Me thinks Jet2 to Copenhagen next!!!!!
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Jet2 CDG service starts
Well, as far as we can tell Jet2 successfully started their new service to Paris CDG yesterday. The LBIA website was stuck showing “Gate closed” for a couple of hours after the inaugural flight departed which made me suspect it was running late. The Aeroport de Paris website had LS315 arriving at CDG T3 from GLASGOW rather than Leeds and I was told there is no entry at all for flights on Fridays.
On the positive side, both flights did arrive early.
I’m sure we’re all looking to the glowing reports of this event on the LBIA website and in ALL the local newspapers. Nothing in any of the above yet.
PTH
On the positive side, both flights did arrive early.
I’m sure we’re all looking to the glowing reports of this event on the LBIA website and in ALL the local newspapers. Nothing in any of the above yet.
PTH
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This isn't specifically expansion related but here goes anyway...
RW 27/09 is closed at the moment for resurfacing between A3 and B. Seems to be rather odd that this work is going on; I thought this runway was earmarked for closure and absorption into an extended parking apron in the non too distant future. Perhaps the boys are going to extend the apron the other way instead.
The Watchman radar head was removed from its tower yesterday and carted off for maintenance. Seemed to take hours to do the job; how many nuts and bolts and cables are there ? So at the moment the LBA radar service is secondary only which is piped in from Claxby, Lincs. Here's hoping that when it returns from Siemens Plessey or wherever it's sporting a new paint job and the very latest in super duper SSR heads on its top. LBA can stop paying the CAA for SSR cover then. Mind you, I can't deny that it is the CAA who's providing at the moment so fair play to them.
RW 27/09 is closed at the moment for resurfacing between A3 and B. Seems to be rather odd that this work is going on; I thought this runway was earmarked for closure and absorption into an extended parking apron in the non too distant future. Perhaps the boys are going to extend the apron the other way instead.
The Watchman radar head was removed from its tower yesterday and carted off for maintenance. Seemed to take hours to do the job; how many nuts and bolts and cables are there ? So at the moment the LBA radar service is secondary only which is piped in from Claxby, Lincs. Here's hoping that when it returns from Siemens Plessey or wherever it's sporting a new paint job and the very latest in super duper SSR heads on its top. LBA can stop paying the CAA for SSR cover then. Mind you, I can't deny that it is the CAA who's providing at the moment so fair play to them.
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Do not start other threads, of any description, in regard to LBA. I have closed one and deleted another, if there are other instances you may be deleted. I have better things to do than chase around PPRuNe looking for new LBA posts. One is enough and that is ALL you get. Please do not do it.
PPP
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Well the Press Release from LBA is out.
They missed the 250,000 mark by a long way, almost 10,000 short. Despite 93,302 passengers on Jet2, about 40,000 more than last August, there was just a 6% rise in the total passenger figure. This is the first time is years that August has been behind July.
We are told EDI, GLA, ABZ all increased and the sum of the two Belfast routes must be at the very least equal to last years fly.be performance. This leaves few candidates to account for the poor result. The most likely must be the IT sector which had been down year on year for June and July 2004.
The fact that Jet2’s Nice service managed a 106% increase is not such big news when we remember that this year it’s a daily service rather than 3 times weekly. For the record, July 2004 posted a 136% rise according to CAA Provisional statistics.
A 15% rise on the EDI route with bmi route probably disguises a lower load factor as the F100 is in regular use on the route this year as opposed to an all Emb145 service.
We also told that the first Jet2 service to CDG was sent off in a “typically French” style. Could we have some elaboration on that? Was everyone given a string of garlic bulbs, a stripy jersey and a bike with a big basket on the front? One line doesn't seem to be enough for a major event of this nature, does it?
And to finish a quote from EA……wait for it…..
‘Results from a recent survey have shown that the overwhelming majority of passengers wish to fly from their closest airport and this is borne out by our record figures for August.’
……I’ll hand that one over to everyone else to comment on.
PTH
They missed the 250,000 mark by a long way, almost 10,000 short. Despite 93,302 passengers on Jet2, about 40,000 more than last August, there was just a 6% rise in the total passenger figure. This is the first time is years that August has been behind July.
We are told EDI, GLA, ABZ all increased and the sum of the two Belfast routes must be at the very least equal to last years fly.be performance. This leaves few candidates to account for the poor result. The most likely must be the IT sector which had been down year on year for June and July 2004.
The fact that Jet2’s Nice service managed a 106% increase is not such big news when we remember that this year it’s a daily service rather than 3 times weekly. For the record, July 2004 posted a 136% rise according to CAA Provisional statistics.
A 15% rise on the EDI route with bmi route probably disguises a lower load factor as the F100 is in regular use on the route this year as opposed to an all Emb145 service.
We also told that the first Jet2 service to CDG was sent off in a “typically French” style. Could we have some elaboration on that? Was everyone given a string of garlic bulbs, a stripy jersey and a bike with a big basket on the front? One line doesn't seem to be enough for a major event of this nature, does it?
And to finish a quote from EA……wait for it…..
‘Results from a recent survey have shown that the overwhelming majority of passengers wish to fly from their closest airport and this is borne out by our record figures for August.’
……I’ll hand that one over to everyone else to comment on.
PTH
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PTH
I have been saying for some time that Leeds will face an uphill battle once Dony gets underway, i would not be surprised to see next years peak Summer pax numbers to be below this Summer for a number of reasons, the economy is cooling, people are starting to get a bit fed up with airport hassel and we will be very lucky to go through the US elections with out a major terror event and with UK elections probably less than a year away..well
In any event Jet2 have had an excellent year, but they will also face a big struggle to increase their pax numbers without more aircraft and more summer routes.all the more so if rumours of another loco at Leeds prove to be true
bmi have swapped aircraft around in response to Jet2 Paris launch, the miday service is now on a Fokker100 with the late afternoon service switched to a 135 so seat number have increased by only 39 in total (now237 as to 198 before) each way per day, at least it limits the money they can lose at some of the very low fairs on offer. At present it looks like the Fokker will stay on the early and late EDI service doing the middle Paris.
The new LCY route is selling slowly but its early days and bmi like to keep their routes secret!! hopefully by the time the new 135 advanced turn up there will be some passengers for them, its a good route for getting to Frankfurt and far quicker than via LHR
The LBA winter program is looking very shallow, it will be like a ghost town and i wouldn't be surprised to see them close check in area B until spring to save on heating costs
In any event Jet2 have had an excellent year, but they will also face a big struggle to increase their pax numbers without more aircraft and more summer routes.all the more so if rumours of another loco at Leeds prove to be true
bmi have swapped aircraft around in response to Jet2 Paris launch, the miday service is now on a Fokker100 with the late afternoon service switched to a 135 so seat number have increased by only 39 in total (now237 as to 198 before) each way per day, at least it limits the money they can lose at some of the very low fairs on offer. At present it looks like the Fokker will stay on the early and late EDI service doing the middle Paris.
The new LCY route is selling slowly but its early days and bmi like to keep their routes secret!! hopefully by the time the new 135 advanced turn up there will be some passengers for them, its a good route for getting to Frankfurt and far quicker than via LHR
The LBA winter program is looking very shallow, it will be like a ghost town and i wouldn't be surprised to see them close check in area B until spring to save on heating costs
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I have been saying for some time that Leeds will face an uphill battle once Dony gets underway
BTW - the drop in passengers in Aug04 vs Aug03 had (believe it or not) as much to do with their being only 4 Fridays and Saturdays in 2004 compared to 5 in 2003. These are the biggest IT days for Leeds, so logically enough fewer of them = fewer passengers. Evens itself out over a season of course, but taking a trend from 1 month's data is misleading.
In any event Jet2 have had an excellent year, but they will also face a big struggle to increase their pax numbers without more aircraft and more summer routes. All the more so if rumours of another loco at Leeds prove to be true.
bmi have swapped aircraft around in response to Jet2 Paris launch....
The LBA winter program is looking very shallow, it will be like a ghost town
682
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Was wondering what with Jet2's continuous expansion at LBA and rumours of another low cost operator coming, what the future holds for Flybe there.
With still only one route out of LBA (to BHD) and now competing against Jet2 to BFS , one has to wonder if their days there are numbered and they will opt to use the BHD based aircraft for other routes.
With still only one route out of LBA (to BHD) and now competing against Jet2 to BFS , one has to wonder if their days there are numbered and they will opt to use the BHD based aircraft for other routes.
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Have to agree with 682ft AMSL
Whilst I have said one or two harsh words about LBA regarding the state of the terminal and the lack of IT flights. What you have said makes a lot of sense. The Yorkshire region as a whole is so underserved in aviation terms. There is enough business out there for LBA, HUY and the new DSA.
A lot was said about the marketing team at LBA on the 'Greek IT' thread that 90% of the forumers agreed with. This isn't to say that I don't think LBA can continue to grow and expand, far from it. LBA has had sustained growth for many years now. The fact is that LBA must wake-up to the challenges.
The fundamentals are already there, the infrastructure needs tweaking. Shefield Council has demanded its own airport for years. Leeds City Council up untill only a few years ago, pushed Manchster airport.At Leeds (Bradford) the council, whilst the centre of Leeds is coming on in leaps and bounds, the airport and the North West end of Leeds appear to be forgoten. Transport needs to be made Leeds's No1 priority. If the transport in Leeds we're a body, it would be having a coronary.
I am sure that over the next year, the airport will continue to grow, but how willing is the board to invest in the very thing that helps to ferther inward investment to the economies of Leeds Bradford and West Yorkshire. If the councils are set on keeping this as an asset, then get investing.
Jet2 Copenhagen or Berlin next!!!
A lot was said about the marketing team at LBA on the 'Greek IT' thread that 90% of the forumers agreed with. This isn't to say that I don't think LBA can continue to grow and expand, far from it. LBA has had sustained growth for many years now. The fact is that LBA must wake-up to the challenges.
The fundamentals are already there, the infrastructure needs tweaking. Shefield Council has demanded its own airport for years. Leeds City Council up untill only a few years ago, pushed Manchster airport.At Leeds (Bradford) the council, whilst the centre of Leeds is coming on in leaps and bounds, the airport and the North West end of Leeds appear to be forgoten. Transport needs to be made Leeds's No1 priority. If the transport in Leeds we're a body, it would be having a coronary.
I am sure that over the next year, the airport will continue to grow, but how willing is the board to invest in the very thing that helps to ferther inward investment to the economies of Leeds Bradford and West Yorkshire. If the councils are set on keeping this as an asset, then get investing.
Jet2 Copenhagen or Berlin next!!!
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I wonder if the LBA management will be saying that the airport complements DSA as they said of Manchester.
How does Leeds complement Manchester,by sending passengers over by bus?
Why when Leeds is the 3rd largest city in the UK after London and Birmingham.Manchester being ninth!Glasgow is about 4th.
What is the handicap,is there something wrong with Leeds?.
Manchester does not even have an airport,Ringway is in Cheshire.
So,what a fantastic marketing job they have done!.
How does Leeds complement Manchester,by sending passengers over by bus?
Why when Leeds is the 3rd largest city in the UK after London and Birmingham.Manchester being ninth!Glasgow is about 4th.
What is the handicap,is there something wrong with Leeds?.
Manchester does not even have an airport,Ringway is in Cheshire.
So,what a fantastic marketing job they have done!.