DERRY/LONDONDERRY
It's probably wishful thinking that BE or EI would start a proper (i.e. at least one a day, EVERY day) LON schedule, but if one of them did, who'd give me long odds on RYR re-instating the second daily STN as direct, destructive competition?
RYR are good for sunshine routes, and as I've said in the past, have been good for Derry, but have now proven how cr@p they are for an airport of LDY's size when it comes to regional routes.
Another operator, with smaller airframes and better frequencies, is what Derry needs now.
RYR are good for sunshine routes, and as I've said in the past, have been good for Derry, but have now proven how cr@p they are for an airport of LDY's size when it comes to regional routes.
Another operator, with smaller airframes and better frequencies, is what Derry needs now.
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Where would LDY be without them?? Don't make me laugh. RYR have served their purpose. They have proved that there is a market for direct City of Derry to London services, proving Jersey European wrong when they left, taking their piss-poor Belfast city Hen House shuttle service with them back in the late 90's.
What we need now is someone with the necessary gutzpah at both the Airport and in a certain suitable Airline to get together, thrash out a deal suitable to both, that will bring a PROPER twice Daily London service along with a select number of regional services.
On the same day, the Airport management phones up good o'l Mick thanking him for his help in establishing the route, but as he now seems to be destroying, and not building on what he has started here, we think its time for a parting of the ways.
Will that happen? 'course it won't. Why? Gutzpah is in short supply around these parts and most could not contemplate that life beyond Ryanair (a sole B738 fleet not flexible enough for City of Derry) could be good. ( oh gawd, somebody prove me wrong).
Seperate subject: for those who have been critical of the Airport's recent attempts at remaining open despite the adverse weather gripping the entire British Isles (Even Jersey), those responsible for snow clearing have not only been starting their work at 4am on most mornings, on some occasions they have remained on station overnight to try and ensure that the Runway remains clear.
Those who ask why they can't have a runway open for 730am show a startling lack of knowledge in airport operations. Newsflash: a cleared and useable Runway at 720am can be a SNOCLO (thats snow closed to you Amelia dear!) by 730am, unuseable for the next hour. I noticed that those critics were very silent when, immediately after their barbed comments, City of Derry recieved several Diversions from Belfast City due to them being SNOCLO. Must've been those damned Belfast City council workers slouching again eh?? Easy to slag off; not so easy to praise.
Over the last month with a few exceptions ( dec 23rd was a disaster ), City of Derry have been wide open for business only for flights to cancel due to adverse weather at Birmingham, Liverpool, Luton, Prestwick etc. It happens everywhere and this Airport clears it's runway as quickly or as slowly as the rest. Don't believe me? Compare City of Derrry's SNOWTAMS with the others.
Yet another Seperate subject: As for the calls for Flybe to start services from City of Derry; it's a very good idea but only direct services would ever work. If Flybe think they can do some rickety sperrin-scraping hop to Belfast City which feeds their network there, they will fail - badly. North West passengers have had a taste of direct flights and low prices come to that. They like both and ain't about to go back to the 90's. I believe that they will drive all the long long way to Aldergrove rather than be subjected to that.
Regards,
Alpha Echo.
What we need now is someone with the necessary gutzpah at both the Airport and in a certain suitable Airline to get together, thrash out a deal suitable to both, that will bring a PROPER twice Daily London service along with a select number of regional services.
On the same day, the Airport management phones up good o'l Mick thanking him for his help in establishing the route, but as he now seems to be destroying, and not building on what he has started here, we think its time for a parting of the ways.
Will that happen? 'course it won't. Why? Gutzpah is in short supply around these parts and most could not contemplate that life beyond Ryanair (a sole B738 fleet not flexible enough for City of Derry) could be good. ( oh gawd, somebody prove me wrong).
Seperate subject: for those who have been critical of the Airport's recent attempts at remaining open despite the adverse weather gripping the entire British Isles (Even Jersey), those responsible for snow clearing have not only been starting their work at 4am on most mornings, on some occasions they have remained on station overnight to try and ensure that the Runway remains clear.
Those who ask why they can't have a runway open for 730am show a startling lack of knowledge in airport operations. Newsflash: a cleared and useable Runway at 720am can be a SNOCLO (thats snow closed to you Amelia dear!) by 730am, unuseable for the next hour. I noticed that those critics were very silent when, immediately after their barbed comments, City of Derry recieved several Diversions from Belfast City due to them being SNOCLO. Must've been those damned Belfast City council workers slouching again eh?? Easy to slag off; not so easy to praise.
Over the last month with a few exceptions ( dec 23rd was a disaster ), City of Derry have been wide open for business only for flights to cancel due to adverse weather at Birmingham, Liverpool, Luton, Prestwick etc. It happens everywhere and this Airport clears it's runway as quickly or as slowly as the rest. Don't believe me? Compare City of Derrry's SNOWTAMS with the others.
Yet another Seperate subject: As for the calls for Flybe to start services from City of Derry; it's a very good idea but only direct services would ever work. If Flybe think they can do some rickety sperrin-scraping hop to Belfast City which feeds their network there, they will fail - badly. North West passengers have had a taste of direct flights and low prices come to that. They like both and ain't about to go back to the 90's. I believe that they will drive all the long long way to Aldergrove rather than be subjected to that.
Regards,
Alpha Echo.
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Which do you prefer? Passengers numbers or flight frequencies?
The problem is that Ryanair aircraft are actually too big to operate on most routes out of LDY and the routes that it can operate are limited at best to 1 flight per day and sometimes only 4 per week (ie: a flight every second day).
An operator with smaller aircraft could operate more routes, with increased frequencies but almost certainly increased fares (let's be fair here - despite hidden charges Ryanair are cheaper).
Would increased frequencies on more routes be of greater benefit to the people of the North West if the fares were higher?
Would the increased frequencies on more routes attract more passengers than would be lost due to higher fares?
Would increased airport fees per passenger be enough to offset the losses of fewer passengers and reduced ancilliary income or would local council subvention have to increase?
LDY is currently ranked 29th in the UK. Would you prefer a dimished status and possible increased losses in favour of more destinations and increased frequency?
What constitutes a successful airport? A profitable airport? An airport with more than 1 million passengers per annum? An airport with daily flights to the top 10 UK airports?
The problem is that Ryanair aircraft are actually too big to operate on most routes out of LDY and the routes that it can operate are limited at best to 1 flight per day and sometimes only 4 per week (ie: a flight every second day).
An operator with smaller aircraft could operate more routes, with increased frequencies but almost certainly increased fares (let's be fair here - despite hidden charges Ryanair are cheaper).
Would increased frequencies on more routes be of greater benefit to the people of the North West if the fares were higher?
Would the increased frequencies on more routes attract more passengers than would be lost due to higher fares?
Would increased airport fees per passenger be enough to offset the losses of fewer passengers and reduced ancilliary income or would local council subvention have to increase?
LDY is currently ranked 29th in the UK. Would you prefer a dimished status and possible increased losses in favour of more destinations and increased frequency?
What constitutes a successful airport? A profitable airport? An airport with more than 1 million passengers per annum? An airport with daily flights to the top 10 UK airports?
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Controlled airspace changes
I see someone has opened a second forum on LDY.
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...-eglinton.html
Further class G airspace to disappear
Interesting. This must mean that there's a parallel proposal coming for controlled airspace round EGAE on the UK side of the border, although I don't think there's been any announcement of this.
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A bit of gutzpah has been spotted in the greater Eglinton area ( see last ramble - i mean post). say no more for now nudge nudge, wink wink guv.....
Amelia - that guy who says that it MUST mean a parallel proposal coming for controlled airspace round EGAE is wrong. It doesn't.
You make good points about an operator of smaller Aircraft being able to make a better go of some regional Routes than RYR. I have to agree with that arguement and would dearly like at least three operators on scheduled services from Eglinton.
Amelia - that guy who says that it MUST mean a parallel proposal coming for controlled airspace round EGAE is wrong. It doesn't.
You make good points about an operator of smaller Aircraft being able to make a better go of some regional Routes than RYR. I have to agree with that arguement and would dearly like at least three operators on scheduled services from Eglinton.
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see last ramble - i mean post
Whether its content is correct or not, should the forum not be amalgamated with this forum? Moderators please!
Latest CAA stats for LDY (Dec) are now out. They don't make the best reading.
Pax numbers are down 23%, with total flights only decreasing 12%. I don't know how much of the decrease is down to diversions, but I recall about four or five days (at least) with significant disruption.
LTN traffic has risen slightly, STN is down (fewer rotations?), LPL and PIK have decreased slightly, but BHX has crashed. I take it this route, and STN was daily last winter? I can't remember off hand.
DUB has decreased 11%, and confirms the thoughts on here that without the PSO, it'd die as a viable route.
Hardly inspiring stuff if you're a new airline looking at the figures therein, but if one did look at the stats, they should take into account RYR's "scheduling" (I use the term loosely), which deters many users who prefer the better frequencies up the road.
Pax numbers are down 23%, with total flights only decreasing 12%. I don't know how much of the decrease is down to diversions, but I recall about four or five days (at least) with significant disruption.
LTN traffic has risen slightly, STN is down (fewer rotations?), LPL and PIK have decreased slightly, but BHX has crashed. I take it this route, and STN was daily last winter? I can't remember off hand.
DUB has decreased 11%, and confirms the thoughts on here that without the PSO, it'd die as a viable route.
Hardly inspiring stuff if you're a new airline looking at the figures therein, but if one did look at the stats, they should take into account RYR's "scheduling" (I use the term loosely), which deters many users who prefer the better frequencies up the road.
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Dec stats are bad indeed. Hopefully things will pick up in the coming months. Interesting to hear of the airspace class change proposal. Must be to do with the upcoming 08 ILS installation penetrating into the shannon FIR boundary. Also, correct me if I'm wrong here but I'm sure a while back there was a supplement in the UK AIP showing a wider arc out to 12 DME instead of the current 9 DME onto the 08 approach that was to be implemented, but that supplement disappeared and nothing was said of it. I presume the wider arc was to be implemented to give a longer final to 08 arrivals on the ILS or NDB DME. Does anyone else remember seeing this or am I dreaming? lol 
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Latest CAA stats for LDY (Dec) are now out. They don't make the best reading.
In fact it is number 30, up from position 32 in 2008, having been pipped at the post to position 29 by Newquay and 652 passengers.
LDY had 345857 passengers in 2009, down 21.2%. However not all is doom and gloom. In relation to the comparative airports:
Rank.....Airport.........Passengers.......Decrease
29........Newquay......346509............19.6%
31........Humberside...335149............21.0%
30........Derry...........345857............21.2%
28........Norwich........429557............26.3%
33........Blackpool......277191............36.9%
32........Durham........288327.............55.4%
Nevertheless while at position 30 in the league table, LDY ranks 50th worst for falling passenger numbers. However that ranking does belie the extent of the losses with most airports losing over 11% of their passengers with only really Plymouth and Dundee bucking the trend albeit with lower passenger numbers than LDY. The only airports ranked higher than LDY that saw passenger growth were BHD and EDI with modest 2% and 0.6% growth respectively. So it wasn't a great year for anyone in aviation.
But it could have been worse and interestingly not only has Derry moved up the league table but Norwich got to position 28 with less passengers in 2009 than LDY had in 2008 so it is in theory within striking distance for 2010.
So really the question is what does the future hold for LDY in 2010. 5 years ago or so the council were predicting 1 million passengers in 2010. I'm sure it will happen yet but not this year!
Anyway, in theory, sooner rather than later, we will pass the anniversary of falling passenger numbers and a month will start to show an increase on the previous year unless of course Ryanair continue to mess around with timetables and frequencies.
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Ryanair will open new bases in 2010 in Bari, Brindisi, Faro, Malaga, Oslo (Rygge) and Leeds Bradford to support its continued growth.
No mention of LDY for this year. Don't hold our breath then!
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With all the current cuts to the RYR summer timetable, and the axing of LTN, I find it increasingly hard to believe that RYR will ever open a base at LDY. Take NOC for example, they have operated from there for years before coming to LDY, they have more routes with better frequencies and yet NOC isn't a base either. RYR logic is baffling!!!
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The decline (and decline) of the Dublin route
LDY- DUB pax for the past few years:
Year Pax
2003 28974
2004 30914
2005 28775
2006 29611
2007 25962
2008 24701
2009 21371
There has been a decline since 2007. That seems slightly too early to be the start of the credit crunch so was that the wheels coming off the Celtic Tiger?
Or was it the increasing availability of alternative routes from LDY, so less feeder passengers and leisure travellers.
Could alternative routes also explain reductions on LDY-STN (or is that due entirely to inconsistent timetabling and reduced frequencies on the STN route)?
Year Pax
2003 28974
2004 30914
2005 28775
2006 29611
2007 25962
2008 24701
2009 21371
There has been a decline since 2007. That seems slightly too early to be the start of the credit crunch so was that the wheels coming off the Celtic Tiger?
Or was it the increasing availability of alternative routes from LDY, so less feeder passengers and leisure travellers.
Could alternative routes also explain reductions on LDY-STN (or is that due entirely to inconsistent timetabling and reduced frequencies on the STN route)?
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1176 available seats per week. So thats 61152 per year. 2004 was the best year so far with around a 50% load factor, which would have been BA/Loganair at the time using a slightly smaller a/c (Saab 340) than the current ATR - 42. This route will surely disappear after the PSO stops as the 2009 figures were abysmal. Sad but true. Im sure translink would love an extra 20 - 30000 back on the busses. 
Would this be as Aer Arann, or as Aer Lingus Regional?
If it is going to happen, an announcement would need to be made soon, so as flights could go on sale etc etc.
Your source reliable? Would be great to see.
If it is going to happen, an announcement would need to be made soon, so as flights could go on sale etc etc.
Your source reliable? Would be great to see.
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I'd say they will be Aer Arann flights rather than Aer Lingus Regional flights as this brand only applies to flights to/from Britain and France from Aer Lingus's two largest bases in Dublin and Cork.
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Not according to Mueller's quote in todays Irish Times. They are planning on using the "Aer Lingus Regional" service on new SNN routes.
Aer Lingus may offer more Shannon routes - The Irish Times - Fri, Jan 29, 2010
Aer Lingus may offer more Shannon routes - The Irish Times - Fri, Jan 29, 2010
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Heard a rumour that Aer Arann are to start flights to Manchester and Edinburgh in the summer
But didn't Aer Arann previously operate the Manchester route about 10 years ago before pulling it after losing out on the Dublin PSO. And didn't they state a year or so ago that they were retrenching and wanted to wet lease their aircraft instead of expanding into new routes?
Indeed what would new routes to EDI and MAN mean for the DUB route after the PSO ends? Perhaps a glimmer of light . . . .
Amelia, RE stopped the LDY-BHX and LDY-MAN in the summer of 2005. If I remember correctly both routes were increasing pax numbers nicely, (~1800 a month on the BHX and ~2200 a month on the MAN by the end, with available seats around the 2500 mark).
I can't recall why they chopped the routes, but I think it had something to do with them not getting the PSO at the time.
Any return of these routes, or any others, would obviously be very welcome, but I can't see it unfortunately.
I can't recall why they chopped the routes, but I think it had something to do with them not getting the PSO at the time.
Any return of these routes, or any others, would obviously be very welcome, but I can't see it unfortunately.