DERRY/LONDONDERRY

[speedbirdATC]

Im sure the Belfast thread will have a field day with my BHD base closure comments. Lets be realistic here it is a possibility. Would RYR operate two bases so close together? Yes I know they have various LON airport bases etc within a few miles of each other, but would it work in NI? Maybe it would, Im not sure though. They were nagging at LDY for ages about upgrades that they have now got, and now a 2000 meter runway, large main apron that now has proper stands, markings and push-back procedures, upgrades to rwy lighting and taxiway lighting, turning pads on the runway and a new rwy surface currently being rolled out! Surely this is enough for them to open a base and attract new operators??

[cuthere]

Yeah AE, I appreciate that you were just restating what the new manager said. Just seems like a strange thing for the guy to say.....especially as he's been at the airport for years and should know what's what!

CCR, I take your point, but I stick to my guns. Figures on the 2xdaily LDY-DUB are poor. Perhaps it's overcapacity (!!!!), but certainly the time to travel between Derry and Cork is much longer than Derry to Dublin, so maybe there is something in it.

Oh, and don't worry Amelia, it's only the Aldergrove crowd that tend to get their knickers in a twist. They'd be delighted with BHD losing a carrier.

[Amelia Earhart]

I can't see Ryanair removing its based aircraft from Belfast let alone pulling out, with or without Easyjet to compete with.

See, it depends on your interpretation of what a base is. I think a base is merely where they park their aircraft overnight, literally where the aircraft are based. It certainly doesn't mean that the airport is more important to Ryanair, after all non-base Derry and Knock have more routes than base airport Belfast; there are hardly any bases in France despite some airports having up to 20 routes. So in that regard there would be no problem having two bases in Northern Ireland: its just where they park the planes.

I think a new base at LDY is inevitable. That has to be what all the apron works were about. Ryanair could have continued to operate with the existing apron but with an extended runway.

[CCR]

Amelia, A base means employment for pilots, cabin crew and ops based in Derry.

[speedbirdATC]

Is LDY - LTN ending on 27 March as the airports wiki page suggests?

City of Derry Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Amelia Earhart]

Not sure. Someone may have jumped the gun on the basis that it is no longer bookable after that date. But neither is LDY to STN although strangely STN to LDY is bookable.

As far as I know there has been no announcement one way or the other. Could Ryanair be hedging their bets over Easyjet's move to BHD on the Luton route or are they still loading the summer schedule or are we awaiting a bigger announcement which will affect the availability of aircraft to operate the route (ie: a base).

As the website currently stands it is very odd. Maybe they just haven't noticed!

[speedbirdATC]

It does seem very odd. You can book any other LDY route for the summer rotation except LTN (although only STN - LDY on that route). The last big announcement from them came in January (Alicante) so could we hear the news of a base then or as the new manager has stated some announcements before xmas?

[Amelia Earhart]

Irish Routes

Would there really be demand for LDY-ORK?

Figures on the 2xdaily LDY-DUB are poor

Please tell me Aer Arann don't operate an ATR 72 on the LDY-DUB route. Tell me its an ATR 42!

Cos if it's not, it means loadings for the past 6 months are 21% down from an incredible 24% on the same period last year. ( 11126 pax v 52704 seats - 183 days at 2 return flights with 72 seats - tell me it's not 74 seats! )

September was even worse at 19%!

Even an ATR 42 would mean average loadings of 36% down from 41% a year ago.

Credit crunch or not, it's not looking good when the PSO ends. And to think Aer Arann originally started the route before the PSO as a commercial venture!

Demand for ORK? Not on your nelly!

(BHD-ORK, a commercial flight, had 41% in September, down from 50% a year ago, asssuming an ATR 72)

[EI-BUD]

See, it depends on your interpretation of what a base is. I think a base is merely where they park their aircraft overnight, literally where the aircraft are based. It certainly doesn't mean that the airport is more important to Ryanair, after all non-base Derry and Knock have more routes than base airport Belfast;

Amelia, I take on board what is a base, it always fascinated me that Ryanair make a big fuss about a new base that only has 1 aircraft. But that said, I suppose the significance of a based aircraft would be that the schedule is planned based on what Derry LDY would need i.e. perhaps a x2 daily London offering that made trip a possibility and moreover we wouldnt be accepting the gaps in a schedule that mean we get rubbish scheduling, eg 2 flights to London both timed similarly 1 to LTN and 1 to STN.

To me a base is an airport that Ryanair one or more aircraft overnighting and they employ local pilots and cabin crew.

I hope you are right on the issue of a base being inevitable. However, deep down I cant help but believe that the new manager is trying to push Ryanair's hand on the issue of a base or more services when he suggests that a LGW/LHR base is being discussed. LHR very unlikely LGW is a possibility.

Ryanair operating such a route would mean a base at LGW, or a base at LDY or a W pattern ex Dublin to LGW or the SNN or ORK flights! Do you think Flybe could be attracted to a new LDY service on a daily 195?


He certainly is making all the right noises early on.

EI-BUD

[CCR]

It's an ATR-42 that operates the route with 48 seats aboard. Loads have definately dropped over the past year but that is a sign of the deep recession we're in. There is not much optimism in the airline business at the moment with most airlines contracting. The one big exception of course is Ryanair who are continually expanding. They have an incredible amount of 737 deliveries arriving in the next year.

[Amelia Earhart]

Well then that means average loadings on LDY-DUB for the past year are 32% down from 36% a year ago which doesn't sound too bad a reduction if you're prepared to ignore the fact that both are rubbish.

OK, so Ryanair has average loadings of 84%, but Ryanair's business model is clearly to pack the plane even if some seats are 1p. Aer Aranns model is presumably different, so what is an acceptable loading to the likes of Aer Arann.

BHD-ORK was only 50% before the credit crunch. Are they happy with that?

Mind you, Loganair was usually only half full and they operated for 30 years.

Is there any hope the DUB route will continue after the PSO ends? Is there even a sliver of a chance of a new Irish route? DUB only ever carried 26,000 at it's 2x daily peak, is a 1x daily to ORK even possible?

[cuthere]

I think we need to be realistic. Once the PSO ends, it is likely the LDY-DUB route will also end. Despite RE being cheaper that Loganair, using larger aircraft etc, loads have been in decline for a while now.
Loads in the mid-30s % is unsustainable, and unless there's an operator out there willing to attempt flying an islander between Derry and Cork, that route will never happen (certainly in the current climate).

The main growth potential (in my mind) for the airport is smaller UK airports, with an operator using ATRs or Q400s, and some continental cities using RYR.

[Amelia Earhart]

That's certainly what I would have thought. It's just I was trying to make sense of the statement made by the new manager that 'he's "hopeful" of announcing new routes to both Irish and British destinations before Christmas'. Maybe it makes no sense . . . .

Airport chief hopes to secure Madrid, Paris routes - Derry Today

Now with regard to a base at LDY, don't get me wrong, I think it would be a big advance as it would mean aircraft available for proper timetabling and as has been pointed out would mean jobs for the local area in the guise of local crews which would be great, but I just don't think that a base at LDY is dependent on whether or not a base is at BHD. I don't think the two issues are connected, I don't think the two are too close and I don't think that the BHD base is under any threat regardless of what happens at LDY.

[CCR]

The flights from Cork to Belfast and Dublin are commercial (not PSO routes). They used also fly direct from Cork to Galway but cut it last year. Aer Arann have been flying a double daily between Cork and Belfast for several years and I doubt they would fly to Belfast at a loss. Anytime I've been aboard, the flight was well subscribed.
I think with most airlines in survival mode, the Aer Arann flights between Derry and Cork via Dublin are the best that we can expect for the time being.
However, in the future when the economy recovers, they could introduce direct flights a couple of times a week, perhaps in the summer to connect with the French destinations Aer Arann operate from Cork to Nantes, La Rochelle , Lorient and Brest. Aer Arann operate all the regional flights via Dublin and they also flew to Amsterdam from Galway via Waterford so it is at least a possibility

[cuthere]

I hate, and I do mean HATE, to be like some of the BFS spotters whose homepage is the arrivals and departures section of Lough Neagh Airport, but (and I'm flying LDY-STN tomorrow morning so bare with me), is the LTN listed on the Derry website departing at 9.15 tomorrow morning a boo-boo or real?

I thought LTN was Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday, or has something changed? If I'd known.............!

[gate 22]

I hate, and I do mean HATE, to be like some of the BFS spotters whose homepage is the arrivals and departures section of Lough Neagh Airport,

How many arrivals do you have a day up there? is it worthwhile looking at the board at Lough Foyle International Airport? What would happen if FR decided to have ago at BFS? 3 bases within 70 miles!!!!! dream on.

[mutt]

Dublin-Derry route before Derry was included in the PSO scheme

Are you sure? I remember Shannon Executive Aviation operating that route as a PSO route in the late 1980's, at that time Aer Arann were only operating to the islands.

Mutt

[cuthere]

Gate, Derry airport is 7 miles from the centre of Derry. How far is your beloved shed from the centre of its namesake? Crumlin International maybe? I was trying to ascertain whether a LTN flight was available (something BFS won't have soon), on a Monday, as this would've been handier for me this morning.

If RYR go to BFS........happy days for LDY. (I'm surprised they haven't already given their penchant for flying to fields in the middle of nowhere). EZY would probably take the opportunity to expand at BHD, move up the road to Derry, and then you BFS boys would have to start saying nice things about RYR. Furthermore, other airlines with smaller aircraft could consider Derry. Everyone's a winner!

[cuthere]

It would seem the MODs have stepped in, and I'm grateful they have.

I can only apologise to the people who maintain this site for them having to step in and use their own time to clear up the recent mess.

Anyway, back on topic, hopefully Derry will announce new routes as mentioned (whether speculation or not by the new airport manager), by DT and from there the airport can develop. Not long to Chrimbo now!

Everything crossed.

[ALPHA ECHO]

What? There was a recent mess??Oh, heavens to Betsy and I missed it??? Hell and Damnation....