Greek Summer Programme From Lba
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Greek Summer Programme From Lba
This is something LBA has failed to have in any quantity for several years (basically since the demise of SunSeeker Leisure in 1994). Just wondering why. This summer, the only Greek flight is a weekly Corfu trip operated by Britannia, and utilised by Thomson and (I think) MyTravel. Last year, we had this flight plus a Wednesday Rhodes for half the season (MyTravel) and a Tuesday Heraklion (Transavia) which again was only for part of the season. Seemingly a rather half-a****d programme IMHO.
And now, even less.
I'm guessing here, but to do a full Greek programme from Leeds would more than likely necessitate the basing of a second aircraft
from MyTravel or Britannia. It could cover Santorini, Kos, Rhodes,
Skiathos, Corfu, Kefalonia, Zakynthos, Thessalonika, Chania and Heraklion and probably have time to do Paphos, Larnaca, Sardinia, Rome and Naples as well in the space of seven days. Would the tour operators/airlines be willing to base more than one aircraft at LBA for this purpose ? The thing is, the traditional Spanish destinations are served daily by Jet2 which probably doesn't do the tour operators any favours.
Anyone in the know care to comment on this one ? Getting fed up
having to fly from Manchester for my Greek sojourns !
And now, even less.
I'm guessing here, but to do a full Greek programme from Leeds would more than likely necessitate the basing of a second aircraft
from MyTravel or Britannia. It could cover Santorini, Kos, Rhodes,
Skiathos, Corfu, Kefalonia, Zakynthos, Thessalonika, Chania and Heraklion and probably have time to do Paphos, Larnaca, Sardinia, Rome and Naples as well in the space of seven days. Would the tour operators/airlines be willing to base more than one aircraft at LBA for this purpose ? The thing is, the traditional Spanish destinations are served daily by Jet2 which probably doesn't do the tour operators any favours.
Anyone in the know care to comment on this one ? Getting fed up
having to fly from Manchester for my Greek sojourns !
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Got to totally agree with that, although good news is that Britannia are starting Zakynthos with their based aircraft next year, and of course MyTravel already fly to Larnaca.
That is rather alot of routes for one a/c to do, I imagine without severe delays!
That is rather alot of routes for one a/c to do, I imagine without severe delays!
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The LBA IT programme in general doesn't follow much of a logical pattern.
- Why do BY use a 767 in the low-season in May and June (and fill it) but then revert to the smaller 757 in peak season?
- Both BY and MYT fly to Reus, which is one of the least popular mainstream charter destinations, but BY don't serve:
ACE, FAO, LPA, FUE, PFO, LCA, RHO, ZTH, HER (all of which are more popular). And let's not forget, the BY machine is hardly stretched with its LBA programme.
and MYT don't serve CFU, PFO, RHO, ZTH, HER
- First Choice and Thomas Cook have a dedicated FAO and PMI and a small allocation of seats on the based MYT and BY aircraft - and that's it from the 3rd and 4th biggest package holiday companies.
- Balkan send A320s to Bourgas and Varna every week which are two of the least popular IT destinations (by volume of passengers) across the IT network. How can Balkan fill flights to these places, but TUI can't / won't serve Faro?
The reasons for all of the this I think are many and complex. Suffice to say, the biggest reasons are:
- failure to lift the night curfew when there was still a reasonable chance that IT operators would want to base a/c at Leeds
- proximity to MAN; most IT operators bank on potential customers being prepared to drive 60-90 mins to MAN and don't feel the competitive pressure to offer services out of Leeds to win
business. Somewhere like NCL is more remote and therefore does significantly better from a similar / smaller catchment area.
- the lack of appetite in the current climate to invest in single (inefficient) aircraft and crew bases - especially given the point above
The chances of any sustainable growth in IT services is pretty slim. The best hope is that the continued pressure on the tour operators from the switch into self-packaging / independant holidays is that people start shunning package holdiays from MAN. In my view, it will only be if/when the flow of traffic across the Pennines dries up that we *might* start to see some positive developments. I suspect that things will get worse though, before they get better.
682
- Why do BY use a 767 in the low-season in May and June (and fill it) but then revert to the smaller 757 in peak season?
- Both BY and MYT fly to Reus, which is one of the least popular mainstream charter destinations, but BY don't serve:
ACE, FAO, LPA, FUE, PFO, LCA, RHO, ZTH, HER (all of which are more popular). And let's not forget, the BY machine is hardly stretched with its LBA programme.
and MYT don't serve CFU, PFO, RHO, ZTH, HER
- First Choice and Thomas Cook have a dedicated FAO and PMI and a small allocation of seats on the based MYT and BY aircraft - and that's it from the 3rd and 4th biggest package holiday companies.
- Balkan send A320s to Bourgas and Varna every week which are two of the least popular IT destinations (by volume of passengers) across the IT network. How can Balkan fill flights to these places, but TUI can't / won't serve Faro?
The reasons for all of the this I think are many and complex. Suffice to say, the biggest reasons are:
- failure to lift the night curfew when there was still a reasonable chance that IT operators would want to base a/c at Leeds
- proximity to MAN; most IT operators bank on potential customers being prepared to drive 60-90 mins to MAN and don't feel the competitive pressure to offer services out of Leeds to win
business. Somewhere like NCL is more remote and therefore does significantly better from a similar / smaller catchment area.
- the lack of appetite in the current climate to invest in single (inefficient) aircraft and crew bases - especially given the point above
The chances of any sustainable growth in IT services is pretty slim. The best hope is that the continued pressure on the tour operators from the switch into self-packaging / independant holidays is that people start shunning package holdiays from MAN. In my view, it will only be if/when the flow of traffic across the Pennines dries up that we *might* start to see some positive developments. I suspect that things will get worse though, before they get better.
682
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Some good points well made 682. I suppose when SunSeeker was around they filled the gap in the market (as Jet2 have done recently in the loco area) by offering holidays to Greece when the big companies wouldn't touch it with a bargepole from LBA. And with the exception of Malta, that's all they did. It's a pity the company failed coz they could have proved a point to the biggies.
However, I do detect a glimmer of change. BY are doing Zakynthos from LBA next summer instead of Ibiza and I guess the Corfu will be back. It also looks as though BY will base an aircraft at LBA this winter for the first time in about four years. A shuffle in the right direction then, but from small acorns...
However, I do detect a glimmer of change. BY are doing Zakynthos from LBA next summer instead of Ibiza and I guess the Corfu will be back. It also looks as though BY will base an aircraft at LBA this winter for the first time in about four years. A shuffle in the right direction then, but from small acorns...
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Perhaps the rumour that Jet2 may be in the market for some 734s may fill the gap for the non IT holidaymakers. TFS, CFU etc will then be within their reach. Jet2 don't seem afraid to make a go of it from LBA and it's here I see the Greek routes being filled if the traditional IT operators don't get their fingers out!
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If Jet2 started a TFS service daily out of LBA this Winter they would make a packet on it! We (bmi) started TFS and TFN daily out of LHR last Winter and from day 1 they were full. As a northern lad based at LHR pax used to pick up on my accent and on the dozen or so flights i did a few of the pax were from Yorkshire! They wanted to fly to Tenerife on Mondays, Thursday...not just on the normal Tenerife days of Friday and Tuesday! This means getting down to Heathrow just to get our flight. I'm sure a daily TFS and maybe a LCA/PFO lo-cost run would be a great addition to their network.
Another thing that winds me up is why LBA lost their YYZ service! I know it was only a 757 via BHX but it was still transatlantic. I think EXT still have their Air Transat weekly flight and even ABZ had one once! It makes you think what the LBA marketing team actulally do up there.....appart from blowing up balloons for the new charter check-in desks!!!
I\'ve just looked at the last 5 stories on the LBA website to try and find out about the THE 1 NEW charter destination next summer to Zante. All marketing can tell us about are the new check-in desks ( which from looking at the departure boards on the website only BY and MYT use!) and Jet2 stories. Is Zante been advertised up there guys??? If not it surely won\'t be too long before Thomson cancell it and send pax over the Pennines to start their hols.
Another thing that winds me up is why LBA lost their YYZ service! I know it was only a 757 via BHX but it was still transatlantic. I think EXT still have their Air Transat weekly flight and even ABZ had one once! It makes you think what the LBA marketing team actulally do up there.....appart from blowing up balloons for the new charter check-in desks!!!
I\'ve just looked at the last 5 stories on the LBA website to try and find out about the THE 1 NEW charter destination next summer to Zante. All marketing can tell us about are the new check-in desks ( which from looking at the departure boards on the website only BY and MYT use!) and Jet2 stories. Is Zante been advertised up there guys??? If not it surely won\'t be too long before Thomson cancell it and send pax over the Pennines to start their hols.
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Well apparantly, TFS was the only route Planetair did well on last year, with a A321 of Spanair in winter and LTE in summer. Apparantly the bookings on the Lanzarote were also very strong before they went bust as well.
Lets hope Jet2 start it!
Lets hope Jet2 start it!
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The problem with charters out of LBA is that there is no choice! It's fine if you want to go to Mallorca or Tenerife but anywhere else forget it! They say they can't fill aircraft out of LBA...well contract smaller aircraft then!!! It's good to see some holidays companies using a bit of initiative for a change. For example todays flights to PSA and INN. The PSA flight today had 37pax out and 37 pax in, which is perfect for an EMB-145 and the INN has 21 pax out and 48 in (reason for low outbound load is because this flight is the last of the season ....in mid July!!!!) again which is perfect for a CRJ, but uneconomical for a 757/737. Why don't Thomson/Mytravel try flights to PFO/MIR/RHO/KGS/HER/EFL/NAP/FNC/BJV but use a 737 instead! Astraeus are perfect for this with their 737-700's which have the range and performance to do this. Then at least LBA will have a choice of holiday destinations and not just PALMA!!!
P.S. it looks like LBA will have NO flights to LPA or FUE this winter.Can't find them anywhere on the Mytravel website! The friday TFS and seasonal Saturday ALC are also showing that thses are on non based aircraft ie landing LBA mid afternoon then returning back to where they have just come from.
P.S. it looks like LBA will have NO flights to LPA or FUE this winter.Can't find them anywhere on the Mytravel website! The friday TFS and seasonal Saturday ALC are also showing that thses are on non based aircraft ie landing LBA mid afternoon then returning back to where they have just come from.
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Well, MyTravel now have a summer base only at LBA so no surprise about it not been a based a/c. Would be quite surprised if no LPA or FUE, on the upside, a BY based a/c this winter operating the likes of ALC, ACE and AGP.
According to the LBIA website, we still have a Monday Las Palmas,and the Wednesday FUE.
And next summer TFS operated by Based BY a/c as opposed to AEA a/c, and an extra flight for 1st choice, and of course Zante. Not all bad news.
According to the LBIA website, we still have a Monday Las Palmas,and the Wednesday FUE.
And next summer TFS operated by Based BY a/c as opposed to AEA a/c, and an extra flight for 1st choice, and of course Zante. Not all bad news.
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LBA
Just had a look on the LBIA website and it still says LPA/FUE flights this winter but try the Mytravel site and try booking a flight there this winter!!! I think they have been dropped.
Has anyone tried Croatia from LBA in recent years? When i was a lad (God here i go...) i can remember 4 flights a week to Yugoslavia. 1 was a JAT 707 ( or was it a 727...or both) to Pula i think? also flights to Ljubljana, Dubrovnik and Split. If we can have 2 flights a week to Bulgaria surley some one could have a weekly Dubrovnik! Also Ski charters, i'm sure LBA used to have 4 a week at one point SZG/LYS on BY 757's INN on UKL 734's GVA on BA 1-11. Now we have 2 charters to INN/CMF. plus Jet2's new 8 a week to GVA! which is excellent news if you want to go to Switzerland or the French Alps. If you want the Pyrenees/ Italian Alps/Eastern Austria well yet again it's Manchester here i come! Then again if you want Bulgarian ski slops this winter then you can fly from Manchester or beleive it or not HUMBERSIDE!!! Yes believe it or not HUY this winter have a weekly Plovdiv charter.
Again operators will say we can't fill A320/757 from LBA. Well bmi regional will have a couple of EMB's and Fokkers sat on the ground for all of Saturday and Sunday mornings! I'm sure a 49 seat EMB to TLS/SZG/TRN could go full (Don't know how you get your own ski's on a EMB though!...roof rack maybe)
Just had a look on the LBIA website and it still says LPA/FUE flights this winter but try the Mytravel site and try booking a flight there this winter!!! I think they have been dropped.
Has anyone tried Croatia from LBA in recent years? When i was a lad (God here i go...) i can remember 4 flights a week to Yugoslavia. 1 was a JAT 707 ( or was it a 727...or both) to Pula i think? also flights to Ljubljana, Dubrovnik and Split. If we can have 2 flights a week to Bulgaria surley some one could have a weekly Dubrovnik! Also Ski charters, i'm sure LBA used to have 4 a week at one point SZG/LYS on BY 757's INN on UKL 734's GVA on BA 1-11. Now we have 2 charters to INN/CMF. plus Jet2's new 8 a week to GVA! which is excellent news if you want to go to Switzerland or the French Alps. If you want the Pyrenees/ Italian Alps/Eastern Austria well yet again it's Manchester here i come! Then again if you want Bulgarian ski slops this winter then you can fly from Manchester or beleive it or not HUMBERSIDE!!! Yes believe it or not HUY this winter have a weekly Plovdiv charter.
Again operators will say we can't fill A320/757 from LBA. Well bmi regional will have a couple of EMB's and Fokkers sat on the ground for all of Saturday and Sunday mornings! I'm sure a 49 seat EMB to TLS/SZG/TRN could go full (Don't know how you get your own ski's on a EMB though!...roof rack maybe)
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Yes Britannia are with a 767. Apparantly the 1st one was really overbooked so they are doing a second one.
The 1st flight departs on the 25th of January 2005 returning 04th of February. The 2nd flight departs 18th February 2005 returning 05 March. Hope that helps.
The 1st flight departs on the 25th of January 2005 returning 04th of February. The 2nd flight departs 18th February 2005 returning 05 March. Hope that helps.
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In the days of Sunseekers Leisure, when flights operated to Zakynthos, Heraklion, Corfu, Rhodes, Paphos, Larnaca and Malta among others. I remember nearly all their flights were operating full from Leeds. An insider at the time had said to me that services operating at Manchester were not doing very well. Without a doubt this brought on the demise of the company.
A full IT program incoperating a full range of Greece services is long overdue at LBA, if the likes of TUI, MyTravel First Chice don't wake up, it'll only be a matter of time bofore JET2 or another NEWBOY realise LBA's potential in this area.
When will the tour companies realise that people want to fly from their local airport, an area that EASYJET, RYANAIR, BMIBABY and JET2 are all exploiting around the country?
from YORKSHIRE
the place to be is the city of Leeds.
A full IT program incoperating a full range of Greece services is long overdue at LBA, if the likes of TUI, MyTravel First Chice don't wake up, it'll only be a matter of time bofore JET2 or another NEWBOY realise LBA's potential in this area.
When will the tour companies realise that people want to fly from their local airport, an area that EASYJET, RYANAIR, BMIBABY and JET2 are all exploiting around the country?
from YORKSHIRE
the place to be is the city of Leeds.
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Why did Sunseekers go bust! As a family we went to Rhodes with them on their in house airline...was it called Sunjet? 737-300 ex BA colours seem to remember. Really good holiday with them!
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bmifox,
Hmm, looks as though I've started something here ! I don't know what became of SunSeeker. What I do remember is the 1994 programme operating for what seemed like only a few days with TransLift A320s and the LBA Tower Controller saying goodnight and goodbye to this aircraft on what was to be its last departure from LBA
Perhaps they just tried to expand too quickly. The 1993 season was a success with a 148-seater 737 (it was ex-Dan Air, taken on by BA, leased to Air Foyle and operated by ex-Dan Air crews I think). The next season they added another 32 seats with the introduction of the A320. Who knows what TransLift's fees were
compared to Air Foyle ??? Maybe too much too early when some consolidation was needed in a relatively new market. Even so, full marks for trying, especially when you consider this woz the days before 24 hour availability at LBA.
I went to Ljubljana a couple of times myself, on a JAT 727 (great) and the following year on a clapped out Adria/Tarom Rombac
1-11 (awful). That JAT 707 was a beast was it not ! I digress.
Yes, I feel sure that Slovenia and Croatia could comfortably make a welcome return to the LBA summer programme. Ljubljana, Split, Dubrovnik and Pula were all popular spots in the old days and I believe they've recovered most of their former glory. The likes of Adria and Croatian Airlines may not have sufficient aircraft but I expect companies such as Astraeus and Jet2 could oblige for the right price. Wake me up when it (and Greece) happens.
Hmm, looks as though I've started something here ! I don't know what became of SunSeeker. What I do remember is the 1994 programme operating for what seemed like only a few days with TransLift A320s and the LBA Tower Controller saying goodnight and goodbye to this aircraft on what was to be its last departure from LBA
Perhaps they just tried to expand too quickly. The 1993 season was a success with a 148-seater 737 (it was ex-Dan Air, taken on by BA, leased to Air Foyle and operated by ex-Dan Air crews I think). The next season they added another 32 seats with the introduction of the A320. Who knows what TransLift's fees were
compared to Air Foyle ??? Maybe too much too early when some consolidation was needed in a relatively new market. Even so, full marks for trying, especially when you consider this woz the days before 24 hour availability at LBA.
I went to Ljubljana a couple of times myself, on a JAT 727 (great) and the following year on a clapped out Adria/Tarom Rombac
1-11 (awful). That JAT 707 was a beast was it not ! I digress.
Yes, I feel sure that Slovenia and Croatia could comfortably make a welcome return to the LBA summer programme. Ljubljana, Split, Dubrovnik and Pula were all popular spots in the old days and I believe they've recovered most of their former glory. The likes of Adria and Croatian Airlines may not have sufficient aircraft but I expect companies such as Astraeus and Jet2 could oblige for the right price. Wake me up when it (and Greece) happens.
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First Choice Holidays are putting an extra flight on to DLM next Summer from LBA on a Monday morning operated by PGT. Tui will still have the BY to DLM aswell on Mondays and Airtours PGT to DLM on Friday mornings. Looks like Airtours are doing some swapping around aswell... Their Saturday flight to PMI is now operating on a non based MYT. Lands LBA at 1410-Depts LBA at 1535. Airtours have stopped selling LCA on a Sunday aswell but strangely it looks like TUI have taken over this flight as they are now selling flights to LCA but using MYT aircraft!
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If I’m interpreting the CAA passenger data correctly, both Humberside and Exeter carry more tour operator passengers to Turkey than LBA. Humberside, Exeter, Bournemouth, Norwich and Teesside all carry more passengers to Cyprus. At the end of the day – that’s just not good enough.
It seems to me that Leeds has got too many people on board who pussyfoot around Manchester with statements like “we’re complimentary to MAN, not a competitor” which frankly I find amazing. For a start, its hundreds of thousands of passengers every month traipse over the M62 from right under LBA’s nose. If that’s not competition, tell me what is? Secondly, the people at Manchester don’t exactly reciprocate the arrangement by steering clear of the Leeds catchment area. I remember last year there was a massive leaflet drop, billboards and press campaign in and around Leeds by MAN for their routes. Until the airport gets people who are up for the fight with MAN, the Tour Operator side of LBAs business will disappear into nothing much at all.
loco
It seems to me that Leeds has got too many people on board who pussyfoot around Manchester with statements like “we’re complimentary to MAN, not a competitor” which frankly I find amazing. For a start, its hundreds of thousands of passengers every month traipse over the M62 from right under LBA’s nose. If that’s not competition, tell me what is? Secondly, the people at Manchester don’t exactly reciprocate the arrangement by steering clear of the Leeds catchment area. I remember last year there was a massive leaflet drop, billboards and press campaign in and around Leeds by MAN for their routes. Until the airport gets people who are up for the fight with MAN, the Tour Operator side of LBAs business will disappear into nothing much at all.
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Well said going loco,
The fact is that most, if not all of the people who work or have worked in LBA marketing, only have a travel shop background. LBA needs people with a lot more ambition, more get up and go!
All they seem to do is visit the Yorkshire Show once a year. The LBAir Magazine hardly even advertize airlines or tour companies, just 'curry restaurants' and 'chippies'. Every passenger has the chance to pick up a coppy and yet they don't capitolize on this, what a mistake. The passengers are out there, most people I know who want to fly from Leeds, simply say that they just couldn't get a flight from Leeds.
LBA needs to spread its wings!!
The fact is that most, if not all of the people who work or have worked in LBA marketing, only have a travel shop background. LBA needs people with a lot more ambition, more get up and go!
All they seem to do is visit the Yorkshire Show once a year. The LBAir Magazine hardly even advertize airlines or tour companies, just 'curry restaurants' and 'chippies'. Every passenger has the chance to pick up a coppy and yet they don't capitolize on this, what a mistake. The passengers are out there, most people I know who want to fly from Leeds, simply say that they just couldn't get a flight from Leeds.
LBA needs to spread its wings!!