Greek Summer Programme From Lba
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Lets not hope they make all their pax fly from MAN nearer the time and cancel the LBA
This is a common trick played by the major tour operators, and some of the smaller ones too.
If a flight is under performing at MAN by one Tour Op because of over capacity at that airport, they will bin the Leeds, Liverpool flights and force the pax who booked LBA and LPL in good faith to use MAN. A disgusting tactic, especially as it is often done at such a late stage leaving the poor punter no option to book another hoiliday from thgeir desired airport, as all full up.
I have known flights that were 75% sold for the season axed from LBA and given MAN as alternative, and actually told a bold lie that the LBA flights had not sold, when all they were doing was bolstering and protecting MAN flights.
That should be addressed by LBA marketing, if not the MD himself.
If a flight is under performing at MAN by one Tour Op because of over capacity at that airport, they will bin the Leeds, Liverpool flights and force the pax who booked LBA and LPL in good faith to use MAN. A disgusting tactic, especially as it is often done at such a late stage leaving the poor punter no option to book another hoiliday from thgeir desired airport, as all full up.
I have known flights that were 75% sold for the season axed from LBA and given MAN as alternative, and actually told a bold lie that the LBA flights had not sold, when all they were doing was bolstering and protecting MAN flights.
That should be addressed by LBA marketing, if not the MD himself.
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Ppruners...if you work at LBA don't send any messages to this website from a computer at the airport! They are been monitored by the management up there...be careful.
They are furious that LBA employees dare to have an opinion on whats happening at their workplace.
If anyone wants to contact me about this thread please do so at [email protected]
They are furious that LBA employees dare to have an opinion on whats happening at their workplace.
If anyone wants to contact me about this thread please do so at [email protected]
Last edited by bmifox; 11th Aug 2004 at 08:22.
I think it's been mentioned before that the existing Jet2 fleet is a little range limited on account of the variant of CFM56 fitted and so probably couldn't make Greece or Cyprus without a tech stop.
Assuming it's feasible to modify the engines to reduce fuel burn and give more range then Greece and Cyprus could well feature in the grand plan. However, I expect it would be quite costly, especially when you add the costs of launching a Greek flying programme. This is Yorkshire though where you don't get owt for nowt ! Winter would be a good time to do the mods when fleet utilisation is reduced. Send 'em down to ATC Lasham or get the boys at LBA to do it a Multiflight's hangars and let the good times roll !
On the other hand, Dart Group could look out for later versions of the 737-300 which are already range-capable.
I hope the powers that be at LBA aren't getting their knickers in too much of a twist over this thread (and any others that they consider to be relevant). This is after all a discussion forum where opinions are shared and questions asked, some sensible and some less so. Speaking of which, where's TIY these days ?
No offence Tommy ! You just seem to have gone very quiet recently. Perhaps you\'re away on holiday (if so, lucky you).
Assuming it's feasible to modify the engines to reduce fuel burn and give more range then Greece and Cyprus could well feature in the grand plan. However, I expect it would be quite costly, especially when you add the costs of launching a Greek flying programme. This is Yorkshire though where you don't get owt for nowt ! Winter would be a good time to do the mods when fleet utilisation is reduced. Send 'em down to ATC Lasham or get the boys at LBA to do it a Multiflight's hangars and let the good times roll !
On the other hand, Dart Group could look out for later versions of the 737-300 which are already range-capable.
I hope the powers that be at LBA aren't getting their knickers in too much of a twist over this thread (and any others that they consider to be relevant). This is after all a discussion forum where opinions are shared and questions asked, some sensible and some less so. Speaking of which, where's TIY these days ?
No offence Tommy ! You just seem to have gone very quiet recently. Perhaps you\'re away on holiday (if so, lucky you).
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BMIFOX It is common practice for COUNCILs to monitor the use of their site equiptment. I am operating from my home computer and in my own time. I have always had a passion for what happens at OUR local airport. The one we all pay our TAXES for, as pointed out.
Do the airport management actually read anything on this site anyway? Are they actively trying to seek out who we are? Perhaps us PPRuNers have actually booted them up the rear!!
What they must realize is that if this is what we're saying, what are the jo public thinking?
So LBA management if you are listening.......
To the board and management - WHAT NEXT?
Get a new Marketing Executive (PREF someone with proven ability!) Organize a stratigic plan to attract new IT business
(This may include reductions in charges...you have no option!! Yes, you managed to attract MYTRAVEL in the first place, but why is the LBA base one of the first to go? Base too expensive perhaps, why?)
Get involved with airlines that are commited to Leeds and halp them sell their product. Someone mentioned the Manchester adds. They pushed sales for all their companies and tour operators. Stop pushing curry restaurants in your Airmail Mag and sell Airlines! Leeds City Council is keen to have GATEWAY building prodjects to push the city such as Bridgewater Place what about GATEWAY adds to push the airport.
Parts of the terminal look appalling, the main check-in needs to be sorted out, its too dark, no air conditioning that works, monitors that are broken, flooring bubbling up, a revolving door that hardly ever works. After check-in you walk down a dying retail walkway. Passengers comments are "where are the shops" and "are we going the right way, isn't this the exit" Yes, this does involve spending some money, but if you're going to attract new business it must be done.
The posts in this thread have often been harsh words said, but we all want what is best for our airport, our place of work.
from YORKSHIRE
the place to be is the city of Leeds.
Do the airport management actually read anything on this site anyway? Are they actively trying to seek out who we are? Perhaps us PPRuNers have actually booted them up the rear!!
What they must realize is that if this is what we're saying, what are the jo public thinking?
So LBA management if you are listening.......
To the board and management - WHAT NEXT?
Get a new Marketing Executive (PREF someone with proven ability!) Organize a stratigic plan to attract new IT business
(This may include reductions in charges...you have no option!! Yes, you managed to attract MYTRAVEL in the first place, but why is the LBA base one of the first to go? Base too expensive perhaps, why?)
Get involved with airlines that are commited to Leeds and halp them sell their product. Someone mentioned the Manchester adds. They pushed sales for all their companies and tour operators. Stop pushing curry restaurants in your Airmail Mag and sell Airlines! Leeds City Council is keen to have GATEWAY building prodjects to push the city such as Bridgewater Place what about GATEWAY adds to push the airport.
Parts of the terminal look appalling, the main check-in needs to be sorted out, its too dark, no air conditioning that works, monitors that are broken, flooring bubbling up, a revolving door that hardly ever works. After check-in you walk down a dying retail walkway. Passengers comments are "where are the shops" and "are we going the right way, isn't this the exit" Yes, this does involve spending some money, but if you're going to attract new business it must be done.
The posts in this thread have often been harsh words said, but we all want what is best for our airport, our place of work.
from YORKSHIRE
the place to be is the city of Leeds.
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Have you noticed how slow LBIA have been to put their July PAX figures on the website...still not there!!
Perhaps they don't make good reading, with donny soon to start LBA management must be getting a bit nervous about Summer 05 certainly where the big IT operator will be going, one only has to look at this weeks weather when RVR have been below CAT 1 and the tail wind on 32 greater than ten knots, it just hassel and the knock on delays and cost for a diversion is too much for most to bear. Jet2 have had a very good year but the airport want it all and whilst jet2 is good for filling carparks, its meant to be an airport they are running not NCP.
Jet2 are asking and getting looked after very well by the airport and ground staff, but bmi and others are suffering as a result, the airport is very concerned at becoming to dependant on JET2 and a desperate for another low cost airline to come in.
Only last week a team in bmibaby logo-ed HI VIS jackets were seen looking at offices airsde, the JET2 crew walking down the ramp nealry fell over the red & white plastic bricks near stand 3.
I understand that Paris isn't selling that well despite buying every hoarding in Yorkshire ! mind you bmi aren't pulling up trees on that route either, must be our love of the French
LEEDS BRADFORD EGNM 110919Z 111019 VRB05KT 0600 FG BKN004 BECMG 1013 6000 SCT015 SCT040 PROB30 TEMPO 1419 4000 SHRA TSRA BKN018CB
LEEMING EGXE 111054Z 111221 22005KT 9999 FEW022 PROB40 TEMPO 1221 5000 SHRA SCT020CB
LIVERPOOL EGGP 110919Z 111019 14006KT 7000 SCT030 PROB30 TEMPO 1319 5000 SHRA TSRA BKN025CB
MANCHESTER EGCC 110919Z 111019 16005KT 9999 SCT030 PROB30 TEMPO 1319 5000 SHRA TSRA BKN020CB
If you were running an airline, you\'d have em drive over the 62 in their time and expense rather than risk buses back and forth.
Come on LBA management stop putting up fancy planters and bus shelters that nobody uses.......up grade the 14 ILS and lets have another 300m on the concrete
Perhaps they don't make good reading, with donny soon to start LBA management must be getting a bit nervous about Summer 05 certainly where the big IT operator will be going, one only has to look at this weeks weather when RVR have been below CAT 1 and the tail wind on 32 greater than ten knots, it just hassel and the knock on delays and cost for a diversion is too much for most to bear. Jet2 have had a very good year but the airport want it all and whilst jet2 is good for filling carparks, its meant to be an airport they are running not NCP.
Jet2 are asking and getting looked after very well by the airport and ground staff, but bmi and others are suffering as a result, the airport is very concerned at becoming to dependant on JET2 and a desperate for another low cost airline to come in.
Only last week a team in bmibaby logo-ed HI VIS jackets were seen looking at offices airsde, the JET2 crew walking down the ramp nealry fell over the red & white plastic bricks near stand 3.
I understand that Paris isn't selling that well despite buying every hoarding in Yorkshire ! mind you bmi aren't pulling up trees on that route either, must be our love of the French
LEEDS BRADFORD EGNM 110919Z 111019 VRB05KT 0600 FG BKN004 BECMG 1013 6000 SCT015 SCT040 PROB30 TEMPO 1419 4000 SHRA TSRA BKN018CB
LEEMING EGXE 111054Z 111221 22005KT 9999 FEW022 PROB40 TEMPO 1221 5000 SHRA SCT020CB
LIVERPOOL EGGP 110919Z 111019 14006KT 7000 SCT030 PROB30 TEMPO 1319 5000 SHRA TSRA BKN025CB
MANCHESTER EGCC 110919Z 111019 16005KT 9999 SCT030 PROB30 TEMPO 1319 5000 SHRA TSRA BKN020CB
If you were running an airline, you\'d have em drive over the 62 in their time and expense rather than risk buses back and forth.
Come on LBA management stop putting up fancy planters and bus shelters that nobody uses.......up grade the 14 ILS and lets have another 300m on the concrete
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Keep it coming PPRuNers........well said KAT TOO
.........another plant basket put up today,
.........another bucket put under another leak,
.........another 3 months to finish an 8m holiday desk in hall B
still no responce from the board!
Whilst this thread was based on Greek holiday destinations, it has highlighted the fundermental issues that must be addressed if the airport is to continue to succeed.
We cannot by anyway suggest that the airport has not been successful over previous years. If the airport is to continue to expand and develop services to more destionations, it must react proactively.
JET2 has shown that LBA can be made a success and good on them, but I do agree with KAT TOO that the ball must keep rolling and another LOCO would do well at Leeds too. Ultimately the companies that will suffer will eventually be the IT companies if they don't arrive at Leeds soon with a proper programme the LOCOs will continue to take a sizable amount of their business from Manchester.
JET2 have exploited the ITs lack of ability to serve the people of West Yorkshire and I am sure they will continue to do so. Dispite all I have said I am sure that within the next couple of years, with LOCOs, LBA will have flights to Athens, Berlin, Marseille, Rome and Madrid.
Like KAT TOO, I believe CAT2 as a minimum on RWY 14 is paramount, but this will be costly. If LBA could take out the weather factor it will be closer to getting to business on a level playing field with other airports.
So get your head out of the clouds and get to work.
From YORKSHIRE the place to be is the city of Leeds.
In case you've been wondering i'm a fan of my city too.
.........another plant basket put up today,
.........another bucket put under another leak,
.........another 3 months to finish an 8m holiday desk in hall B
still no responce from the board!
Whilst this thread was based on Greek holiday destinations, it has highlighted the fundermental issues that must be addressed if the airport is to continue to succeed.
We cannot by anyway suggest that the airport has not been successful over previous years. If the airport is to continue to expand and develop services to more destionations, it must react proactively.
JET2 has shown that LBA can be made a success and good on them, but I do agree with KAT TOO that the ball must keep rolling and another LOCO would do well at Leeds too. Ultimately the companies that will suffer will eventually be the IT companies if they don't arrive at Leeds soon with a proper programme the LOCOs will continue to take a sizable amount of their business from Manchester.
JET2 have exploited the ITs lack of ability to serve the people of West Yorkshire and I am sure they will continue to do so. Dispite all I have said I am sure that within the next couple of years, with LOCOs, LBA will have flights to Athens, Berlin, Marseille, Rome and Madrid.
Like KAT TOO, I believe CAT2 as a minimum on RWY 14 is paramount, but this will be costly. If LBA could take out the weather factor it will be closer to getting to business on a level playing field with other airports.
So get your head out of the clouds and get to work.
From YORKSHIRE
the place to be is the city of Leeds.In case you've been wondering i'm a fan of my city too.
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Over the past week i have been in touch with several holiday companies, airlines, councillors etc about what has been said on here. I have told them all to read these pages and many have and got back to me. One holiday company has told me they would be very intrested in operating a series of holidays to Croatia from LBA.
WHY THE HELL AM I HAVING TO DO THIS!!! When 4 people at LBA get paid more than me to go out and get new business! I just wanted to prove how easy it would be to get a holiday company intrested. Now lets here from EA what he thinks of his marketing team! If HE thinks they do a good job? If your are reading this EA please e-mail me at [email protected] and i will gladly put your responce on here. I know you must be a very busy man but i think this is of paramount importance to the future survival of LBA. You have already lost the top winter destinations of Gran Canaria and Fuerteventura for this coming season, how many more do you want to lose? I know Jet2 have made a massive impact at the airport but not everyone wants to travel lo-cost even if they are the best in the country at it!
I look forward to your responce Mr Anderson.
WHY THE HELL AM I HAVING TO DO THIS!!! When 4 people at LBA get paid more than me to go out and get new business! I just wanted to prove how easy it would be to get a holiday company intrested. Now lets here from EA what he thinks of his marketing team! If HE thinks they do a good job? If your are reading this EA please e-mail me at [email protected] and i will gladly put your responce on here. I know you must be a very busy man but i think this is of paramount importance to the future survival of LBA. You have already lost the top winter destinations of Gran Canaria and Fuerteventura for this coming season, how many more do you want to lose? I know Jet2 have made a massive impact at the airport but not everyone wants to travel lo-cost even if they are the best in the country at it!
I look forward to your responce Mr Anderson.
BEST L/CONTROLLER
It's probably not all that strange. My simple take on this one is that Jet2 have swiped so much of the Palma business from the TOs that it's not going to be profitable for them to operate the route. If this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if a few more traditional Spanish TO destinations went the same way.
... As BMIFOX points out, Gran Canaria and Fueteventura have already disappeared. These are developing markets for the locos. Admittedly, Jet2's current fleet doesn't have the range for the Canaries but that could change. As for BMI Baby, I think their 733s are range capable and they're on the lookout for more. And if they're looking for office space too...
Idle speculation I know but these rumours and things have a habit of bearing fruit. The LBA BACX base closure was rumoured, denied and dismissed for months and then...wallop !
It's probably not all that strange. My simple take on this one is that Jet2 have swiped so much of the Palma business from the TOs that it's not going to be profitable for them to operate the route. If this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if a few more traditional Spanish TO destinations went the same way.
... As BMIFOX points out, Gran Canaria and Fueteventura have already disappeared. These are developing markets for the locos. Admittedly, Jet2's current fleet doesn't have the range for the Canaries but that could change. As for BMI Baby, I think their 733s are range capable and they're on the lookout for more. And if they're looking for office space too...
Idle speculation I know but these rumours and things have a habit of bearing fruit. The LBA BACX base closure was rumoured, denied and dismissed for months and then...wallop !
Last edited by Mooncrest; 13th Aug 2004 at 16:10.
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I'm sure this will add fuel to the fire....
UK-based Tour Operator, Kosmar, which specialises in holidays to Greece have announced that Astraeus and Excel Airways are to base Boeing 737s in summer 2005 to operate its massive Greek destination expansion plan from Nottingham East Midlands Airport.
The aircraft will be based all week and will operate flights to Chania, Heraklion, Kalamata, Skiathos/Volos, Kos, Rhodes, Zakynthos, Kefalonia and Corfu.
The aircraft will also be used to operate flights for other operators such as Palma on Saturdays for Libra Holidays.
UK-based Tour Operator, Kosmar, which specialises in holidays to Greece have announced that Astraeus and Excel Airways are to base Boeing 737s in summer 2005 to operate its massive Greek destination expansion plan from Nottingham East Midlands Airport.
The aircraft will be based all week and will operate flights to Chania, Heraklion, Kalamata, Skiathos/Volos, Kos, Rhodes, Zakynthos, Kefalonia and Corfu.
The aircraft will also be used to operate flights for other operators such as Palma on Saturdays for Libra Holidays.
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Just a quick note to say a massive thankyou to all of you who have got in touch with me privately at [email protected] The support we have from people not connected with LBA is amazing. 1 e-mail in particular brought a tear to my eye...
Hi Mate,
Have been keeping an eye on the thread on pprune with intrest.I was wondering which newspapers you had been in touch with as i have contacts at local rags and i didn't want to contact them if you had already!
Look forward to receiving your reply!
Allan.
Now 'Allan' when you sent me this e-mail you forgot to take your REAL name off the top of it....silly GIRL. Yes this e-mail was sent from....well i can't name her, but i know for a fact she works at...yep, you guessed it....LBA Marketing Department!!!! Nice to see you have lots of spare time on your hands Zxx! Instead of trying to catch people like me out why don't you just stick to what you are good at...erm i mean stick to your job! and get the bloody website upto date (ie, put the correct Cyprus and Gran Canaria info up). Then you could contact Kosmar Holidays to see if 2-3 of their flights from NEMA could 'W' into LBA from a few places in Greece next Summer!
P.S. I HAVE A FEW CONTACTS OF MY OWN NOW TA VERY MUCH LOVE!!!
Hi Mate,
Have been keeping an eye on the thread on pprune with intrest.I was wondering which newspapers you had been in touch with as i have contacts at local rags and i didn't want to contact them if you had already!
Look forward to receiving your reply!
Allan.
Now 'Allan' when you sent me this e-mail you forgot to take your REAL name off the top of it....silly GIRL. Yes this e-mail was sent from....well i can't name her, but i know for a fact she works at...yep, you guessed it....LBA Marketing Department!!!! Nice to see you have lots of spare time on your hands Zxx! Instead of trying to catch people like me out why don't you just stick to what you are good at...erm i mean stick to your job! and get the bloody website upto date (ie, put the correct Cyprus and Gran Canaria info up). Then you could contact Kosmar Holidays to see if 2-3 of their flights from NEMA could 'W' into LBA from a few places in Greece next Summer!
P.S. I HAVE A FEW CONTACTS OF MY OWN NOW TA VERY MUCH LOVE!!!
Last edited by bmifox; 13th Aug 2004 at 13:14.
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Good work BMIFOX, keep it up! At least we know someone at LBA is actualy reading this thread. Hopefully, if they're not taking it all to heart, they might actually do something about it.
We cannot hold our breath, remember most of the Marketing Department including the Marketing Executive are all from travel agents. They're only used to selling holidays from Manchester!! They have no track record of selling an airport to airlines or to holiday companies.
The right company to do the job could put a sizable thorn in Manchesters side if they put their mind to it. remember
4 MILLION PASSENGER CATCHMENT
BMIFOX... still nothing in the YEP, any word from them
We cannot hold our breath, remember most of the Marketing Department including the Marketing Executive are all from travel agents. They're only used to selling holidays from Manchester!! They have no track record of selling an airport to airlines or to holiday companies.
The right company to do the job could put a sizable thorn in Manchesters side if they put their mind to it. remember
4 MILLION PASSENGER CATCHMENT
BMIFOX... still nothing in the YEP, any word from them
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It's not all bad!
Just to say the airport have released details of July passenger numbers (but not on the website, strangely). Total of 243,343 - the highest ever monthly total. This was some 28,000 more passengers than last July, comprising 42,000 more from Jet2 and a 14,000 net reduction from the other operators. Current run rate points to between 2.3m - 2.4m passengers for 2004.
682
Just to say the airport have released details of July passenger numbers (but not on the website, strangely). Total of 243,343 - the highest ever monthly total. This was some 28,000 more passengers than last July, comprising 42,000 more from Jet2 and a 14,000 net reduction from the other operators. Current run rate points to between 2.3m - 2.4m passengers for 2004.
682
While there's no doubt that Jet2 is putting an awful lot of passengers through LBA and that they have established a strong brand, I wouldn't like to see LBA putting all their eggs in one basket, so to speak. Jet2 could probably very easily plug the gap in the charter market by doing Greece, Italy and Cyprus with a more capable batch of Boeings but it could commence a dominance of the airport that other potential operators (that's if there are any) may find uncomfortable, viz. the BMI brigade at East Mids and Ryanair at Stansted, not forgetting BA at Heathrow... Sorry, it's been a long day. Wot I'm trying to say is I'm all for Jet2 and the boost they have brought to LBA. I just hope it doesn't prove to be at the expense of other airlines and ultimately LBA itself.
Just to wander off the thread a little, did any other locals monitor the situation at LBA on Thursday evening ? The storms were cracking, the runway flooded in at least two places and some four or five flights diverted to Manchester and Teesside as a result.
Normally it's fog and the associated lack of an adequate ILS on RW14 that leads to diversions, but don't get me started on that...
Just to wander off the thread a little, did any other locals monitor the situation at LBA on Thursday evening ? The storms were cracking, the runway flooded in at least two places and some four or five flights diverted to Manchester and Teesside as a result.
Normally it's fog and the associated lack of an adequate ILS on RW14 that leads to diversions, but don't get me started on that...
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Mooncrest
If you where there at the time the volume of water coming down was amazing. There were 2 problems with the runway.
1
A 15 metre wide stream of water 6mm deep coming from the pan across the runway and down the Delta taxiway.
2
Water at either side of the middle section of the runway which restricted it to a 36 metre wide strip.(I think Jet2 required 40 metres)
Water then formed a stream from the Lima intersection.
The staff did a marvelous job to clear water.The use of the brushes was more like a snow clearing operation.
Not a time for taking the dog for a run on the moor top.
ILS32
If you where there at the time the volume of water coming down was amazing. There were 2 problems with the runway.
1
A 15 metre wide stream of water 6mm deep coming from the pan across the runway and down the Delta taxiway.
2
Water at either side of the middle section of the runway which restricted it to a 36 metre wide strip.(I think Jet2 required 40 metres)
Water then formed a stream from the Lima intersection.
The staff did a marvelous job to clear water.The use of the brushes was more like a snow clearing operation.
Not a time for taking the dog for a run on the moor top.
ILS32
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Just a quick note to keep you all updated!
On Friday i posted off 35 letters to various Councillors, MP's, journalists, travel companies and the MD and marketing dept of LBA. Full copies of what has been said on pprune over the last few weeks were also included. Any replies i will of course put straight on here!
On Friday i posted off 35 letters to various Councillors, MP's, journalists, travel companies and the MD and marketing dept of LBA. Full copies of what has been said on pprune over the last few weeks were also included. Any replies i will of course put straight on here!
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Well done BMIFOX
Have you not thought of a change of career? I have not had time to e-mail you, but you are truly doing a great job. I don't think there is anything else that can be added to this topic. The comments from all involved unanimously said it all.
Lets hope the LBA management take a good look at this and act quickly.
PS. Ed, the Website is out of date now, it needs a good face lift!
Have you not thought of a change of career? I have not had time to e-mail you, but you are truly doing a great job. I don't think there is anything else that can be added to this topic. The comments from all involved unanimously said it all.
Lets hope the LBA management take a good look at this and act quickly.
PS. Ed, the Website is out of date now, it needs a good face lift!
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Thanks for that LBAir! To be honest i would be quite happy to see 5 new destinatios next summer! HER,RHO,KGS,PFO and DVB( is that the 3 letter code for Dubrovnik?) Well when i say new i mean reinstated! A company called Holiday Options has a good programme to Croatia and already fly from NWI/BRS/NCL. It's amazing how many flights LBA has lost over the years. I can think of PFO,KGS,HER,RHO,GRO,SZG,DVB,PUY,LJU,SPU,YYZ,GCI,LGW,BRS,CWL, MIR,LEI,BJV,ADN and i'm sure i must have missed some out!
Lets hope the marketing team get some new business for next season.
Lets hope the marketing team get some new business for next season.