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Greek Summer Programme From Lba

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Greek Summer Programme From Lba

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Old 3rd Aug 2004, 20:21
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with you completely going loco.

I am often asked by friends, family and neighbours why all the holiday flights from LBA are booked up. There can only be one answer and that is that demand far outweighs supply in this area. I am sure that if tour operators added some of the more popular destinations to their portfolio from LBA they would fill them.
My guess is that the tour operators do not wish to add flights from LBA as they know that the Yorkshire holiday makers will travel to MAN if they can't get what they want from LBA.
What is needed is a tour operator that does not offer many routes from MAN to start a charter programme at LBA and they would make a killing.

As for the marketing department..................
I do not pretend to know what they are actually meant to do, but it would appear that most of the readers of this forum would do better given the job.
My suggestion is get rid of all but one (hopefully one knows what they are doing) and use the money saved to get 3 billboards on the M62.
The first on should say

ARE YOU ENJOYING YOUR DRIVE TO MANCHESTER AIRPORT TODAY ?

The second, should be positioned just before the Trafford Centre and should say,

ARE YOU TIRED OF THIS QUEUE ?

And the third should say

JUST THINK,
IF YOU HAD BEEN FLYING FROM LEEDS/BRADFORD YOU WOULD BE IN THE BAR BY NOW !
LEEDS/BRADFORD INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT IS YORKSHIRES OWN AIRPORT. use it or lose it.


I bet you would get more bums on seats for your marketing budget that they do now.
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Old 3rd Aug 2004, 21:16
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Well said guys!!!
Im cabin crew for bmi based at LHR and i'm sure i know more of what's going on at LBA than those muppets in the marketing dept! I've posted a few things on here over the last few months about upcoming charters from LBA. Transuns winter day trips of which there are 19 now on sale! The LBIA website tell us there are only 3!!! The Thomson S

Summer charter to INN which is in their 2nd edition brochures and running from May- Sep next year is not even down on the website! LPA and FUE have gone for the winter but not according to the marketing team
I really don\'t think they knoe their arse from their elbows!!!

Gordon Dennison...now thats a name from the past! So he\'s not EA greatest fan then??? What a surprise.
Does anyone know how many plods work in the marketing dept and what their salaries are???
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Old 3rd Aug 2004, 21:25
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"Does anyone know how many plods work in the marketing dept "

...none of them by the look of things!!
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Old 3rd Aug 2004, 21:25
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Sorry ...the INN charter is for Inghams not Thomson! I had a TIY moment there! not having a clue what i was on about

Frankfurt Cowboy
Good one mate! It\'s sad but true. As nibor said we could all do a much better job at promoting LBA because we all have a passion about the place (well i do anyway) If Jet2 wasn\'t around the airport would surely have seen a drop in pax numbers this year, and for next summer we are already many charters down on this summer. With Finningley fast approaching with a nice list of charters i fear that in 2-3 years we will have a dozen charters a week ( 10 to PMI and 2 to JER ). So come on marketing team, go out and get First Choice or Thomas Cook in with 15-20 flights a week with a based A320. Offer them free car parking...i think this worked really well at Bristol a good few years ago.
Another thing about LBA is the new hotel! Travelodge??? 48 rooms??? is that it? you can\'t even get a meal in a Travelodge that size! Well you can always used the Burger King in the Terminal cos that\'s open 24hours...right!!!
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Old 3rd Aug 2004, 22:16
  #25 (permalink)  
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If the airlines/IT operators thought they'd make more money flying from LBA than from MAN then they would fly from LBA.

In the main, they fly from MAN because they make more money doing that.

Apart from MyTravel.

That's the bottom line, really.
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Old 3rd Aug 2004, 23:51
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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"Does anyone know how many plods work in the marketing dept "

Nobody with any ounce of aviation background works there. Mostly ex secretaries, people from other industries, probably make a good cup of tea, but no one with any commercial agression towards capturing the market share for LBA. As going Loco said, all we hear from management is that LBA compliments MAN not competes with it. Thank goodness for Jet 2! At least they are pulling 85000+ pax a month (and rising) from lo-cost flights from other airports, and putting them out from Leeds.
Just look at the selection of flights from Newcastle, the number of pax using Newcastle, then look at the size of Newcastle/Sunderland to West Yorkshire. LBA should have a useage of between 5 to 7 milliom pax, not 2 and half million.

All this boils down to the airports owners, the head in the sand, left wing majority councils and councillors. Yep, they are always behind any scheme to hinder a potentially good thing. Do they know how to run an airport ? No. They can't can't get the surface transport right. They procrastinated on the supertram, so the cost went up four fold. The roads are in a state. There's too many bus lanes, speed humps. Not enough police on the streets, so why should they know how to run an airport, when they excel at getting everything else wrong. They appoint the senior managers who come from either outside of aviation, or are ones that other airports were probably glad to be rid of. They in turn appoint the marketing positions with those we have today. If you want a party, they're great at blowing up balloons and organising a jazz band.
Not good enough LBA. You are under performing big style at this place. We, (all the commercial customers) are trying to make a go of this airport, but continually find you working against us. Be proactive for once. Come on Airport Board. Approve an extension to the apron and the terminal to the east. Put some concrete down at the ends for a RESA. Put a CAT II ILS in on 14. I do not like doing CATIIIs on 32 with a tail wind! Spend some of the big city's money on a valuable asset that benefits all of West Yorkshire, instead of wasting it on countless ethnic junkie drop in centres and underage mothers contraception advise clinics, and other no hopers ventures.
Going back to the original thread of "Greek Summer Program from Leeds"
I was told by a colleague at LBA, that at a management Q & A session in which the Q arose - Why are there no flights to Greece?... The answer from the MD was that West Yorkshire people did'nt go to Greece ! Ha
I'd better cancel my hols to Rhodes first thing tomorrow ! (from NEMA by the way)
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 07:35
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Many of us have bemoaned the low volume and poor quality of advertising by LBIA over many years. The LBIA Marketing department only consists of 3-4 people I believe with little or no airport/aviation marketing background. However, they do seem to be good at putting out Press Releases when someone new comes in to head the group, which of late seems to be every 12-18 months. That suggests most people there view it as just a stepping stone to something else.

It was always galling to drive through Bradford passing half a dozen Easyjet billboards (carefully omitting that a drive to LPL is required to collect the headline 9 quid fare) and see not one single advert for LBA.

Bmifox – not a criticism of yourself of course, but bmi have in the past not done much to help either, with little local advertising. I’m not in the area currently so perhaps bmi are being more proactive these days with their LBA routes. How much advertising for the LCY route has there been?

POL1W – On the local political front there may be a clink of light. Labour now only controls 1 of the 5 councils (Wakefield) that own LBIA. Both Leeds and Bradford have Conservative/Liberal coalitions in control. Last year a Conservative councilor from Leeds put down a motion to hold a feasibility study for privatizing LBIA. It was of course shot down by the then Lab majority. Whether as the two majority owners, Leeds and Bradford councils, might try again I have no idea.

PTH
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 08:14
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Morning PTH,
No offence taken matey! When bmi announced the new LBA-LCY service it was on the local news here in London and in a few local papers. I know on board we as cabin crew will make PA's about the new route nearer the time on all the flights that run out of LBA and LHR domestic flights. What i would like to see is a big billboard placed at Leeds City Station and Kings Cross by bmi and LBA about the new route and maybe the odd advert in the Yorkshire Post, FT etc near the time. I think the new service will be popular. I was at LCY 2 weeks ago flying out to JER for the weekend and watched the VLM to MAN and LPL both board. 40+ pax on both flights and this was mid afternoon!
I think the marketing teams (both bmi and LBIA) must target people who use GNER the most for these new flights.After all the trains biggest selling point is that it goes into the centre of London. The DLR expansion at LCY is well underway now with trains that will take you into Docklands and London in a matter of minutes.
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 08:41
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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The criticism of the LBA management and marketing team is spot on.The airport still has an image like Leeds Parish Airport with a lets have jumble sale mentality from the maketing team and with recent news headlines like "passenger joy".
I heard a story a while back where one of the eeh by gum numpty councillors was dispatched on the flight to Glasgow to present an award.But,he forget to take the award with him so the staff had to rush it there by taxi several hours late.
I just wish that some of the excellent postings on prune could be seen by the right people.

wawkrk
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 08:49
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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MMMmmmmmmmmmmm now thats a good idea!
Who would be intrested though?

I think the local press would have to be involved! I remember the Yorkshire Evening Post totally backing the Airport and anyone who supported the airport in it\'s fight for 24 hour flying. I wonder what they would think if they found out what people who work at the airport actually think about the way things run up there and what is and is NOT been achieved!
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 11:46
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Blimey jings ! Isn't it incredible how these threads pan out over a few weeks ? Hotline started it off wondering why there were hardly any Greece flights from LBA. It developed a former Yugoslavia sideline and now the marketing department is taking a bashing from just about everyone on PPRUNE who takes an interest in LBA. Having said that I'm not sure we've heard from our old friend Tommyinyork on this one. No doubt he'll be throwing in his twopenn'orth before long, to the chagrin of one or two folks !

Still, got to agree with just about everything being said about LBA marketing. It just ain't happening. Either they're just not trying, or they are and having no success and b*****ing off elsewhere. Might explain the high staff turnover. Must have been at least three or four heads of marketing in the last ten years. Get off yer backsides guys and gals and sell, sell, sell !
We've got Jet2 and that's grand. Now let's get Greece, Germany,
Scandinavia, Croatia and Slovenia, with a liberal dose of First Choice and Thomas Cook and more commitment from TUI. Please.
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 11:59
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Crikey, not often you get a consensus of opinion like this. The fact that so many people share the same view their ability (or lack of it) says it all really.

I don’t actually think there is a Head of Marketing as such now. Philip Firth was replaced by Kate O’Hara and when she left they decided not to get a replacement in because it would save a bit of money. Instead, EA decided to combine the marketing role with his Chief Exec role and that’s the way its been now for a few years.

To me that really says it all about the mentality of the management and council owners. ££££ can be spent on a check-in hall that only serves two airlines - soon to be one – but a couple of hundred grand can’t be invested in recruiting and paying a high-flying marketing / business development director. And why are the local councils happily taking £££ in the form of a share of the airports annual profits when at the same time the management are saying they can’t afford a marketing director. There was me thinking that the role of a publicly owned airport to provide as many routes for local people to use as possible. Obviously not, it’s to make as much money as possible and if that means local holidaymakers and business travellers have to spend time and money buggering about getting to MAN and back, then so be it. If the council and EA were really serious about attracting more routes to the airport they should employ a headhunting firm to pick out some big names from the airport / airline industry and then make them a ££££ offer they can’t refuse to bring their knowledge and contacts up to Leeds.

Don’t know about GD, but I’d love to see Bill Savage back at the place. In 1998, when the airport was half the size and still with the hours restriction, he managed to get Wardair to run a weekly 747 service to YYZ. I think he also got Thomson to base a 737 over the winter and in his second spell got the CATIII up and running and got a decent summer programme from Airtours and Thomson. I think he invested in free transport to and from the airport for all Airtours customers in their first year to get them up and running. With good ideas like that, no wonder he was head hunted by MAN to join their route development team in the about 1997. Funny that, isn’t it? Bring a route development manager at MAN is seen as a better job (and better paid) than CEO at Leeds.

Wawkrk / bmi - Not hard to get people seeing this thread. Just paste the link form the address bar into an e-mail to [email protected] and [email protected] (airport chairman). The one advantage of the airport still being public is that those of you who are council tax payers up in WY have a right to get answers to these questions.

loco
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 12:38
  #33 (permalink)  

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Offer them free car parking...i think this worked really well at Bristol a good few years ago.
bmifox

No, Bristol never offered free car parking - individual tour operators/travel agents may have done so as part of an inducement to sell their holidays. In fact, until the last year their car parking was amongst the most expensive in the country. They have now reduced the cost if you pre-book, partly in response to a myriad of unofficial car parks that set up in the area.

The thing that pushed BRS forward more than anything IMO was the local authority selling the airport, first partially (51%) to First Group plc in 1997, then entirely in 2001 - it is now owned by the Australian Macquarie Bank and Cintra which is part of the Spanish Ferrovia group.

This gave Bristol the finance to build a new terminal, control tower and other improvements. Furthermore, it gave airlines confidence in the future of the airport and Go set up its second base there in the face of massive competition from other airports in the UK and in Europe.

BRS will carry 4.5 million pax this year. LBA should be doing at least as well, probably better.

I don't believe local authorities should be running airports, and I suspect LBA will not realise its full potential until it is sold into the private sector.
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 12:50
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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MerchantVenturer,
I apologize for saying BRS had free car parking. My sourse for this came from a book published in 1993 by Austin J Brown on UK airports who states that BRS offered free car parking in the early 90's!
I agree totally with you that LBA should be in the 4-5 million pax range now with the same network of flights you enjoy at BRS! I think BRS will have 8-10 ski charters this winter comparred to LBA's 2. Plus it's first Charters to Egypt and again to The Gambia.
I see that Easyjet have just announced Madrid from BRS aswell!

Last edited by bmifox; 4th Aug 2004 at 13:07.
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 14:23
  #35 (permalink)  
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Totally agree with everything said in this thread, especially love the ideas of the billboards on the M62.

The thing that annoys me, brand new check in area just opened, as far as I can see 1 maybe 2 airlines use it, and only a Thomson desk in there. Why? Why not transfer more flights into there? Surely would be a good idea to get BMi in there with the business flights?
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 14:44
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Oh Hello...a rumble in the castle i think!!!
The Winter flights to LPA and FUE have JUST been taken off the LBIA website( Well Airtours did stop selling them 6 weeks ago). Still no word about the First Choice Holidays extra flight to DLM or the May-Sep INN charter by Inghams. I think someone has stopped blowing up balloons and is now watching this to see what else they can learn about the airport they work for.
I will help them out with the Transun Daytrips. Norway 1st Jan 2005,Florence 17th Jan,Venice 14th Feb,Marrakesh 15th Feb,Rome 24th Apr,Venice 25th Apr,Iceland 27th Apr, Bergen 28th Apr.
If you (LBA marketing team ) need any more help or advice please don't hesitate to get in touch with the dozen or so members of pprune who have been writing in this thread for the past few weeks and we will gladly tell you whats going on at YOUR airport.

LBA,
I heard that the airport is going to start and hire out check-in hall B for Weddings and School disco\'s on a Saturday evening cos nobody uses it then! Fantastic idea...well done.

P.S. For TIY benefit i\'m taking the p***
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 15:43
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It does seem as though LBA has spent a lot of money on new facilities but not enough on route development etc. The check-in hall B - was it actually needed???!!! Will it ever get used??!! (what will happen to it at winter?!). Jet 2 should take it over as there own exclusive check-in area (possibly) or do what NCL do, and have all charter airlines checking-in in the new check-in hall.
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 16:04
  #38 (permalink)  
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LOL @ BMI

I have sent the following email to the LBA management, not that I am expecting a reply.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am a very keen supporter of your airport (I fly from it regularly, mostly with the fabulous Jet2), but I have concerns about the future.
The charter programme from LBA is simply awful. We have one Greek destination, becoming two next year.Why? The demand is there!
You look at the likes of Teeside, Humberside, they manage to have flights to Bodrum and Paphos yet LBA doesent. Why not have Gerona,Bodrum,Paphos,Antalya,Rhodes,Heraklion,Kos. People want these routes. The winter season this winter is a very sad looking thing. No MyTravel means a signifcant reduction for this winter and next summer. Why not try and attract another airline to take over these flights? First Choice? Thomas Cook? If MyTravel have been operating these flights (With a 757 last year), the demand must be there. People are sick of having to drive to Manchester for a decent range of holidays.
And on the Scheduled front no Scandinavia or Germany is unforgivable. The only people that seemed to be bothered about LBA, are Jet2 and BMi. No one else seems to care. And if this continues how much longer will they keep supporting the airport?
I lookforward to your reply.
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 16:23
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The check-in hall B - was it actually needed???!!!

Simonwa...good point , but yes it is. Most mornings the queues in terminal A are appalling. The narrowness of the building does not lend it self to anything other than a Jetstream or fokker 50 for check in. Hall B is superb. I really don't know why Jet 2 don't take B over in its entirety. What an advert for Jet2. Own terminal. Lo-cost pax being treated to so much space and not hearded into cattle pens as at moment. BUT...believe this if you will. There are not enough baggage handlers and security staff to man it full time. Another amazing decission from a failing management team. Let's build a terminal with 16 check ins, but not increase the staff to man it. What a joke.
BTW.... BMIfox. hoping to book terminal B for mine and her indoors silver wedding do next month!
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Old 4th Aug 2004, 16:29
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QUICK,QUICK SOMEONE GET A DOCTOR...IT'S STILL ALIVE!!!
The LBIA website has Just (1715) updated it's website again with the Daytrips now up to date. I think someone is still alive in the marketing department. We have gone and got ourselves noticed. If anyone lives near LBA can you go up there and put the kettle on for them...they will be knackered after all that typing.
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