NOW AIRLINES-A Great Beginning
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: London
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, both 737's are at STN and are being held up by - EZY. Think bacardi walla is right to ask the question "will anyone from EZY care to comment" 
It seems this could well be the only reason why the AOC has not been issued. No aircraft, no AOC 
It seems this could well be the only reason why the AOC has not been issued. No aircraft, no AOC
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: london
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firstly I must point out that I hope NOW succeed -the more jobs for all airline staff the better.....but I think JMC MAN raises some good points even if he may have his own agenda ?
NOW have been promising to launch for the last six months and still no sign of any information forthcoming which makes us on the outside start to question whether they will ever start,I appreciate things may be tough but don't start spouting off about how great NOW is when not one passenger ticket has been sold.
I also doubt the wisdom of launching a new airline into the winter market when traditionally all airlines make a loss,if things are delayed why not wait until the spring/easter market ?
All the vitriol aimed at easyjet ignores the fact that Monarch may well be NOW's biggest competitor as they are allegedly about to launch a series of new destinations ex LTN and their crown service may attract just the type of passengers that NOW are aiming for....we shall see.?
NOW have been promising to launch for the last six months and still no sign of any information forthcoming which makes us on the outside start to question whether they will ever start,I appreciate things may be tough but don't start spouting off about how great NOW is when not one passenger ticket has been sold.
I also doubt the wisdom of launching a new airline into the winter market when traditionally all airlines make a loss,if things are delayed why not wait until the spring/easter market ?
All the vitriol aimed at easyjet ignores the fact that Monarch may well be NOW's biggest competitor as they are allegedly about to launch a series of new destinations ex LTN and their crown service may attract just the type of passengers that NOW are aiming for....we shall see.?
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Manchester
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saltrock,
I don't want the information shared with me on PPRuNe. I want the information shared with the world so that they can show they are serious. It's all, as I said before, about credibility.
Just spoken to a mate in a certain large leasing company, who hjas confirmed that it is THEM ( the lease company) who are holding up the aircraft. He wouldn't confirm where the two aircraft in question are going though.
I don't want the information shared with me on PPRuNe. I want the information shared with the world so that they can show they are serious. It's all, as I said before, about credibility.
Just spoken to a mate in a certain large leasing company, who hjas confirmed that it is THEM ( the lease company) who are holding up the aircraft. He wouldn't confirm where the two aircraft in question are going though.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: London
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
....and the leasing company won't/can't release the aircraft because EZY are not playing ball. Lets not get into a slagging match here, we all want NOW to work as it's high time for EZY/RYR to have at least a little competition.
My contribution to this thread is purely and simply a factual one and not intended to take sides in what appears to be an increasingly defined debate with JMC-Man on one side and others opposing.
According to Airfax Jet Transport listing published on 3 November, lessor Orix is offering 737-300s 24546, 24547 and 24678 available for lease in November 2003 (two aircraft) and March 2004 (one aircraft). 24546 is currently G-IGOC, 24547 is G-IGOE and 24678 is G-IGOA.
I seem to recall from further back in the other Now thread that the aircraft destined for Now were exactly these aircraft.
If these are the Now aircraft (and I suppose there are other 737-300s around that they could acquire instead) then why is the lessor offering them on the open market for lease? The fact that they are doing so also makes the easyJet conspiracy theories rather implausible; if the lessor is offering the aircraft for immediate lease then logically it must have taken redelivery of them from easyJet.
According to Airfax Jet Transport listing published on 3 November, lessor Orix is offering 737-300s 24546, 24547 and 24678 available for lease in November 2003 (two aircraft) and March 2004 (one aircraft). 24546 is currently G-IGOC, 24547 is G-IGOE and 24678 is G-IGOA.
I seem to recall from further back in the other Now thread that the aircraft destined for Now were exactly these aircraft.
If these are the Now aircraft (and I suppose there are other 737-300s around that they could acquire instead) then why is the lessor offering them on the open market for lease? The fact that they are doing so also makes the easyJet conspiracy theories rather implausible; if the lessor is offering the aircraft for immediate lease then logically it must have taken redelivery of them from easyJet.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: London
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In that case, maybe NOW have no cash - but then, that can't be right can it ? How upto date is the leasing company's information? I had heard that the mentioned aircraft above were being re-registered into the G-NOWA, B, C etc etc series....
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
saltrock surfer ,
Perhaps you would care to enlighten me (and other concerned/interested ppruners) exactly what parts of my previous perfectly polite (unlike yours!) post was either "misinformed" or "garbage"?
I can assure you that I am EXTREMELY well-informed (otherwise I would not have posted in the first place! If you care to check you will see how rarely and infrequently I do "contribute"!)
??????
Er when did I ever suggest this "ridiculous idea" ????
I can assure you I have a perfectly "balanced view" of this matter! As it happens I have a vested interest in the success of NOW but that interest doesn't stop me from facing REALITY and facing FACTS!!!
My point was and is the good people who have already given up perfectly good jobs/careers/businesses and incurred considerable expenses (travelling/accommodation/food/drink/clothing to mention but a few....) on the strength of "promises" made to them by NOW which NOW cannot fulfill! i.e. "We don't actually want you NOW - can you come back in January/February 2004?" AND that is after being "strung along" by NOW month after month after month....That is a FACT saltrock surfer and NOT "misinformed garbage" so may I respectfully ask that you are a little more careful with your choice and use of words/language as you can - AND HAVE - cause great offence!
Perhaps you would care to enlighten me (and other concerned/interested ppruners) exactly what parts of my previous perfectly polite (unlike yours!) post was either "misinformed" or "garbage"?
I can assure you that I am EXTREMELY well-informed (otherwise I would not have posted in the first place! If you care to check you will see how rarely and infrequently I do "contribute"!)
When you get over the rather ridiculous idea that airlines will declare their commercial intent on PPRUNE then you might be able to form a more balanced view
Er when did I ever suggest this "ridiculous idea" ????
I can assure you I have a perfectly "balanced view" of this matter! As it happens I have a vested interest in the success of NOW but that interest doesn't stop me from facing REALITY and facing FACTS!!!
My point was and is the good people who have already given up perfectly good jobs/careers/businesses and incurred considerable expenses (travelling/accommodation/food/drink/clothing to mention but a few....) on the strength of "promises" made to them by NOW which NOW cannot fulfill! i.e. "We don't actually want you NOW - can you come back in January/February 2004?" AND that is after being "strung along" by NOW month after month after month....That is a FACT saltrock surfer and NOT "misinformed garbage" so may I respectfully ask that you are a little more careful with your choice and use of words/language as you can - AND HAVE - cause great offence!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Delayed launch
Let's all calm down a bit here, yes it is disappointing that NOW will now not be in the air until February but as I have been observing all along they are not prepared to rush to a launch until they are ready. If they had launched and had not had the correct things in place, they would have been a spectacular flop. True, that information from them has been scarce, but we have to understand that there are people out there ready to strangle this venture at the beginning, hence the little or no information released to interested parties.
There will be no doubt be greatly disappointed people out there who have disrupted their lives to join NOW at contract stage and others who can absorb the delay for a few months more. Those who are loyal and absorb the delay are the ones who are prepared to hold their nerve, and after a few years they may well be very, very, very well off with the share options offered to them in the delayed launch.
They could so easily have just said to these people to "go away" until February, or worse still, given everyone 30 days notice as stated in their contracts and rehired closer to launch, but they have decided to be positive with this "down time" and decided to offer all who keep the faith, very attractive share options.
Seems to me each delay and decision is made with a view to success for the future, and if they are as careful in their future expansion plans as they are now, I see them being a very big success with a very healthy share price. So we watch and wait. Again, I wish NOW well.
There will be no doubt be greatly disappointed people out there who have disrupted their lives to join NOW at contract stage and others who can absorb the delay for a few months more. Those who are loyal and absorb the delay are the ones who are prepared to hold their nerve, and after a few years they may well be very, very, very well off with the share options offered to them in the delayed launch.
They could so easily have just said to these people to "go away" until February, or worse still, given everyone 30 days notice as stated in their contracts and rehired closer to launch, but they have decided to be positive with this "down time" and decided to offer all who keep the faith, very attractive share options.
Seems to me each delay and decision is made with a view to success for the future, and if they are as careful in their future expansion plans as they are now, I see them being a very big success with a very healthy share price. So we watch and wait. Again, I wish NOW well.
Last edited by FLYMATE; 5th Nov 2003 at 04:09.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Manchester
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Err....do we understand that there has been another delay then? Nothing on the website.
Judging from the posts, my friends are going to have some difficult choices. Their ability to live and feed their families over the next few months will be totally dependent on their belief in something coming good, and their " share options" being worth something sometime in the future. It's an invidious position to be in.
February would certainly be a better time to launch than December.
No doubt this will all be blamed on Ryanair, easyJet or jmc-man.
Judging from the posts, my friends are going to have some difficult choices. Their ability to live and feed their families over the next few months will be totally dependent on their belief in something coming good, and their " share options" being worth something sometime in the future. It's an invidious position to be in.
February would certainly be a better time to launch than December.
No doubt this will all be blamed on Ryanair, easyJet or jmc-man.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: London
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thunor - you're a soft skinned target - don't get so tetchy.
Most of my comments were directed at jmc-man and having re-read them I don't think they were rude.
you're remark was that NOW have failed to keep their word/commitment to people. You just wrote "We don't actually want you NOW - can you come back in January/February 2004?" AND that is after being "strung along" by NOW month after month after month...."
That I'm afraid is incorrect and rubbish and in a light-hearted tone not uncommon to these pages might be referred to as misinformed garbage. If I've understood it correctly, and if you are 'very well informed' you will know, that despite the aircraft delay everyone has the option to join on their pre-arranged date with full pay with other options available if they choose. Please explain what the snag is with that.
Anyone who is involved will be informed and therefore will know that the only issue holdign them back is the delay in the aircraft delivery and the work involved to get them from a standard apparently acceptable to the previous operator up to a standard acceptable to the guys at NOW. Full marks to NOW for insisting on doing things right (I think that was one of their promises jmc-man)
The bit that still puzzles me is the vitriol that has been caused in some quarters by some guys just trying to get a new carrier off the ground which should be good news to all of us pilots. Why should NOW brief their progress blow by blow on PPRUNE. Do easyjet for example tell us their plans for Airbus bases in advance or does Astraeus tell us how their business is going on PPRUNE. No to both questions so why do jmc-man and a few others somehow think that PPRUNE readers have a overwhelming right to such commercial info from NOW???????????
Whats the problem?
Luv, salty
Most of my comments were directed at jmc-man and having re-read them I don't think they were rude.
you're remark was that NOW have failed to keep their word/commitment to people. You just wrote "We don't actually want you NOW - can you come back in January/February 2004?" AND that is after being "strung along" by NOW month after month after month...."
That I'm afraid is incorrect and rubbish and in a light-hearted tone not uncommon to these pages might be referred to as misinformed garbage. If I've understood it correctly, and if you are 'very well informed' you will know, that despite the aircraft delay everyone has the option to join on their pre-arranged date with full pay with other options available if they choose. Please explain what the snag is with that.
Anyone who is involved will be informed and therefore will know that the only issue holdign them back is the delay in the aircraft delivery and the work involved to get them from a standard apparently acceptable to the previous operator up to a standard acceptable to the guys at NOW. Full marks to NOW for insisting on doing things right (I think that was one of their promises jmc-man)
The bit that still puzzles me is the vitriol that has been caused in some quarters by some guys just trying to get a new carrier off the ground which should be good news to all of us pilots. Why should NOW brief their progress blow by blow on PPRUNE. Do easyjet for example tell us their plans for Airbus bases in advance or does Astraeus tell us how their business is going on PPRUNE. No to both questions so why do jmc-man and a few others somehow think that PPRUNE readers have a overwhelming right to such commercial info from NOW???????????
Whats the problem?
Luv, salty
Last edited by saltrock surfer; 5th Nov 2003 at 06:09.
Tenminutes - you said it's high time for EZY/RYR to have at least a little competition.
Umm, Jet2, BMIBaby, Britannia Lite in the offing as well as the likes of BMI and BA and GB offering sub £60rtns to many European cities.
Competition is horrendous for every shorthaul airline at the moment and has been for some years now. Its good for the customer and ultimately for the industry. So more power to Now's elbow.
To characterize EZY as being either scared or obstructive is a trifle simplistic.
Cheers,
WWW
Umm, Jet2, BMIBaby, Britannia Lite in the offing as well as the likes of BMI and BA and GB offering sub £60rtns to many European cities.
Competition is horrendous for every shorthaul airline at the moment and has been for some years now. Its good for the customer and ultimately for the industry. So more power to Now's elbow.
To characterize EZY as being either scared or obstructive is a trifle simplistic.
Cheers,
WWW
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: ltn
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like the one about the delay being all about finding the state of the aircraft unacceptable! These are OLD aircraft, that have been thrashed and then some, so old for a fleet as young as the orange one,that they did,nt even waste paint on them! Get real, if NOW had any serious wedge to play with they would have run a mile from these frames.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed, anyone who wishes to start their contract on time may do so, so to think that people have been fobbed off until February is untrue, the cynics get carried away with their inventive thoughts there. It must be either that they wish to see hundreds of people down the Job Centre or accepting careers with the masses at the main competitors. We see airlines all the time offering deals to staff to take some free time off, to take up-paid leave etc, so what is the difference here?
At many US companies, we see the harsher way of dealing with "down-time", 100s of thousands laid off at American and United Airlines. This is not the case with NOW. The last thing NOW want to do is deal with people as numbers on the balance sheet. NOW recognises that their people ARE the airline and so wish to treat the "down-time" sensibly and with a view to future staff loyalty.
I find it truly puzzling how fellow aviation colleagues wish to see an airline fail. Is it blind loyalty to their present airline? I wonder how their current employers would feel if they could see how these cynics wish fellow colleagues failure. How destructive these cynics are.
Many on here are supportive of a new venture, I am glad though that I will not be in contact on a day to day basis with those cynics. They seem to have a "give in to circumstances" mentality. Would their NITS briefing go, "No time to do anything, we're all going to die, lay down and give up, we can't do anything, prepare to crash, enjoy heaven".
I plan to be optimistic about the situation, it is obviously this trait in me that has made me successful in life, and a trait they obviously saw in me at interview stage. Once again, I wish NOW well.
At many US companies, we see the harsher way of dealing with "down-time", 100s of thousands laid off at American and United Airlines. This is not the case with NOW. The last thing NOW want to do is deal with people as numbers on the balance sheet. NOW recognises that their people ARE the airline and so wish to treat the "down-time" sensibly and with a view to future staff loyalty.
I find it truly puzzling how fellow aviation colleagues wish to see an airline fail. Is it blind loyalty to their present airline? I wonder how their current employers would feel if they could see how these cynics wish fellow colleagues failure. How destructive these cynics are.
Many on here are supportive of a new venture, I am glad though that I will not be in contact on a day to day basis with those cynics. They seem to have a "give in to circumstances" mentality. Would their NITS briefing go, "No time to do anything, we're all going to die, lay down and give up, we can't do anything, prepare to crash, enjoy heaven".
I plan to be optimistic about the situation, it is obviously this trait in me that has made me successful in life, and a trait they obviously saw in me at interview stage. Once again, I wish NOW well.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitchin
Posts: 1,405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As Jmc-Man has said, there will be some difficult decisions to be made by those staying loyal to Now for at least another three months. As stated previously, I for one one, wish Now and its employees every success for the future, but one should not forget that Now was 'launched' in March this year, and whilst Feb/March 2004 would obviously be a better time to get Now 'in the air', continued delays will mean a year has elapsed. Therefore. one can't help feeling somewhat sceptical even about a Feb start date, or will that get moved to April/May, when all you have to go on is what has happened to date. Are existing/new staff prepared to wait and maybe even take the gamble?
Also, there seems to be much made of the easy/go aircraft that Now are apparently intending to utilise. On reflection. perhaps Now did not make the right decision when trying to source aircraft from easy and there has been much discussion, rightly or wrongly, as to the reasons why. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the aviation market was 'awash' with 737s for lease etc, so why do Now not look elsewhere for their aircraft. Perhaps the deal they had was 'too good to be turned down' or maybe, perhaps, there is another underlying problem preventing them from doing so.
Also, there seems to be much made of the easy/go aircraft that Now are apparently intending to utilise. On reflection. perhaps Now did not make the right decision when trying to source aircraft from easy and there has been much discussion, rightly or wrongly, as to the reasons why. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the aviation market was 'awash' with 737s for lease etc, so why do Now not look elsewhere for their aircraft. Perhaps the deal they had was 'too good to be turned down' or maybe, perhaps, there is another underlying problem preventing them from doing so.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ask the tower !
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bad move indeed to approach a leasing company that is currently dealing with EZY. Anyway, there are loads of 733's out on the market, but how much does it cost to get them upto UK CAA standard ?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: near London
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To blame easyJet is rubbish if NOW were going to be a serious player in the low cost world they would have enough cash to source some 733's from somewhere else instead of relying on a couple of old crates from easyjet.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ask the tower !
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CPT4C exactly my point. I wonder if any of the ex EZY/GO crews suggested they approach the leasing company? Anyhow, the main issue is not what's happening now but what will happen in 1, 2, or 3 months time. Who knows (apart from jmc-man ) of course 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Manchester
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In case some of you are not aware of where the lease market is at.......
The three ex GO aircraft were signed up back in 1998. At that stage the lease rates were between $195K to $220 per month, presumably for 5 years. When EZY took over GO they would have had to take the over the leases as agreed. Now, assuming they were 5 year leases, EZY would have extended them for 6 months to take them to the end of a Summer, rather than have them expire at the beginning of a summer.This extension would have been at a discounted rate.
The current market rate is between $100K and $130K for aircraft of that vintage...and there are a few available. It would have been in the interests of the lease company to delay the return of these aircraft, as plainly they were getting a much better lease rate. The delay would centre around "return conditions", as defined by the original lease rate. EZY, on the other hand, would have to pay the lease rates until such time as the aircraft were met the return conditions , which could ( at the lease rates mentioned above) be a very expensive excercise.
Just a thought....should the title of this thread be changed again ?
p.s. Just nicked a copy of the Airfax document mentioned above. Looks like there are 39 737-300's available in the market at the moment.
The three ex GO aircraft were signed up back in 1998. At that stage the lease rates were between $195K to $220 per month, presumably for 5 years. When EZY took over GO they would have had to take the over the leases as agreed. Now, assuming they were 5 year leases, EZY would have extended them for 6 months to take them to the end of a Summer, rather than have them expire at the beginning of a summer.This extension would have been at a discounted rate.
The current market rate is between $100K and $130K for aircraft of that vintage...and there are a few available. It would have been in the interests of the lease company to delay the return of these aircraft, as plainly they were getting a much better lease rate. The delay would centre around "return conditions", as defined by the original lease rate. EZY, on the other hand, would have to pay the lease rates until such time as the aircraft were met the return conditions , which could ( at the lease rates mentioned above) be a very expensive excercise.
Just a thought....should the title of this thread be changed again ?
p.s. Just nicked a copy of the Airfax document mentioned above. Looks like there are 39 737-300's available in the market at the moment.
Last edited by jmc-man; 5th Nov 2003 at 18:37.