SAA pilots on the verge of a mass exodus?
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SAA pilots on the verge of a mass exodus?
With the two CEO roadshows to the pilots this last week, and the pathetic attempt by management to explain the current situation, any pilot who thinks he or she has a future at SAA, except possibly pilots of colour, are smoking their socks.
The head of HR specifically mentioned that one of the main reasons they do not like our agreements is that they are unable to bring a black pilot who is a Captain at another airline and slot him straight into SAA as a direct entry Captain. They also do not like the fact that, where they have a surplus of pilots, they are unable to get rid of pilots from the top down, or to get rid of only white pilots but not pilots of colour.
This entire restructuring is nothing but an excuse to purge SAA of white employees.
I will bet my entire SAA salary that you will see a minimum of 10 SAA aircraft parked with no crew within 6 months.
The head of HR specifically mentioned that one of the main reasons they do not like our agreements is that they are unable to bring a black pilot who is a Captain at another airline and slot him straight into SAA as a direct entry Captain. They also do not like the fact that, where they have a surplus of pilots, they are unable to get rid of pilots from the top down, or to get rid of only white pilots but not pilots of colour.
This entire restructuring is nothing but an excuse to purge SAA of white employees.
I will bet my entire SAA salary that you will see a minimum of 10 SAA aircraft parked with no crew within 6 months.
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If SAA,s policy is to employ direct entry captains, then the race of the pilot doesnt matter, but rather competence and professionalism.
It is totally unfair for folks to use racism as an excuse to cover their own insecurity or complexes.
It is totally unfair for folks to use racism as an excuse to cover their own insecurity or complexes.
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its a pity a couple of years ago the exact same thing was happening to people of colour where we we not allowed to fly and if you did no chance of getting into SAA now that we have opportunities everyone cries fowl. believe me when i say that aviation in south africa is still a one way street so please stop complaining and let us have our chance like all of you had before i will fly for SAA one day in the future and be proud of my airline and my country
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pliotd: Excuse me if I don't cry.....
15 Years ago I saw coloured pilots get into SAA WITHOUT A COMM. LICENSE!
After they were TRAINED BY THE SAAF!
Weren't allowed to fly?!
Only when coloured South Africans stop hiding behind their skin colour and start producing the goods, will SA's problems stop.
Stop blaming the past for the hole you're digging yourself into.
15 Years ago I saw coloured pilots get into SAA WITHOUT A COMM. LICENSE!
After they were TRAINED BY THE SAAF!
Weren't allowed to fly?!
Only when coloured South Africans stop hiding behind their skin colour and start producing the goods, will SA's problems stop.
Stop blaming the past for the hole you're digging yourself into.
Last edited by 777Contrail; 13th Oct 2007 at 14:03. Reason: spelling
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PILOTD
Sorry for asking but "a couple of years ago the exact same thing was happening to people of colour", did you say the exact same thing?............People of colour being retrenched to make way for white pilots.........
Don't know about that, but as they say, never to old to learn........
I do not believe anybody cried fowl about oppertunities for PDI's..........
E
Sorry for asking but "a couple of years ago the exact same thing was happening to people of colour", did you say the exact same thing?............People of colour being retrenched to make way for white pilots.........
Don't know about that, but as they say, never to old to learn........I do not believe anybody cried fowl about oppertunities for PDI's..........
E
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Exodus
Pilotd is most probably one of the cadets who had everything handed on a platter. Not one of the indians flying at SAA have been disadvantaged. They were all younger than 18 before 1994. so f
them all.
Noe of the white guys have been called in to withdraw their resignation.
All the people of colour can have SAA. Then we can listen to all the whining on PPrune when they have to start flying with Nigerian DEC. Happy days
them all.Noe of the white guys have been called in to withdraw their resignation.
All the people of colour can have SAA. Then we can listen to all the whining on PPrune when they have to start flying with Nigerian DEC. Happy days
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I like how you guys can pin point one couloured pilot who got in at airways with a comm nice one proves my point. Nothing gets said about the charter industry that does not hire PDI and im talking from my experience not in general he would rather take the white guy with less experience so we can keep one part of south africa to ourselves. I fell sorry for the guys at airways who are being retrenched but you guys are making this intoo a political and racial thing which is not right if a black captain is there he deserves to be there because he sure could harder than most people to get in. As for been handed things on a platter you are surely mistaken i worked hard for my comm had to dodge the bullet many times because certain people made my life difficult when i was studying comm.
Please lets not not turn this racial which you guys are we are proffesionals lets look beyond colour and see the real problem at hand , if white pilots are being retrenched and black pilots are being put in their place i am totally AGAINST that sort of behaviour.
Please lets not not turn this racial which you guys are we are proffesionals lets look beyond colour and see the real problem at hand , if white pilots are being retrenched and black pilots are being put in their place i am totally AGAINST that sort of behaviour.
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...people of colour where we we not allowed to fly and if you did no chance of getting into SAA now that we have opportunities everyone cries fowl....stop complaining and let us have our chance like all of you had before i will fly for SAA one day in the future and be proud of my airline and my country
Please lets not not turn this racial which you guys are we are proffesionals lets look beyond colour and see the real problem at hand , if white pilots are being retrenched and black pilots are being put in their place i am totally AGAINST that sort of behaviour.
Btw, MANY others (of all creeds) never had the chance to fly for SAA either - so stop looking into the "Broken Mirror" my friend...
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Ag shame
Pilotd this one is for you.
As far as I know the new South Africa is supposed to be an even playing field.We all know that it's not and alot of pilots(people) give in to that fact.What is irritating is that idiot newbies like you have no idea what charter and contract guys go through to get to the point where SAA will even look at their CV.The Govt. and SAA management make it a race issue,everyone else just want this "Apartheid" excuse for all the bull policies to end.So when you have done 3000 hours of contract and charter flyinng in Africa's holes then you can have something to say about sacrifice and oppertunites,so take your "I have the right" attitude and shove it you know where.I am so sick and tired of the double standards an being the scape goat for the situation SA is in.The place(SA and SAA) is falling appart because of BEE and Affirmative action and no one with half a brain can deny that.Get over yourself and think further ahead than your own situation,think about your children, grandchildren,and the hole they will have to fight to make a living in if these policies are to continue.
Good luck to all you guys and girls in SA fighting the fight.Be strong.
As far as I know the new South Africa is supposed to be an even playing field.We all know that it's not and alot of pilots(people) give in to that fact.What is
irritating is that idiot newbies like you have no idea what charter and contract guys go through to get to the point where SAA will even look at their CV.The Govt. and SAA management make it a race issue,everyone else just want this "Apartheid" excuse for all the bull policies to end.So when you have done 3000 hours of contract and charter flyinng in Africa's holes then you can have something to say about sacrifice and oppertunites,so take your "I have the right" attitude and shove it you know where.I am so sick and tired of the double standards an being the scape goat for the situation SA is in.The place(SA and SAA) is falling appart because of BEE and Affirmative action and no one with half a brain can deny that.Get over yourself and think further ahead than your own situation,think about your children, grandchildren,and the hole they will have to fight to make a living in if these policies are to continue.Good luck to all you guys and girls in SA fighting the fight.Be strong.
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Past the popcorn, this one is gonna head south. I normally keep WELL away from these political ones, but will make an exception this time.
I am in no way silly enough to think that 'white SA' is gonna get away with an 'ooops, sorry' for the 50 odd yrs of apartheid.
But the one thing I do know for sure, is that if South Africa as a country, and SAA as a company wants to have ANY chance in a globalized economy, it has to look forward NOT backwards. I, or any other white South african, cant change the past. That FK up has already been made.
A greater man than Thabo Mbeki quite correctly said "...you don't help the poor by destroying the rich...". I am 40 yrs old. I didn't vote for the system, I just grew up in it. When it came to hiring time, there was NO job reservation to help me. But I do know I will be paying for the 'sins of my fathers' for a long time to come. Which is also odd, we only arrived in SA in 1970.
To create a 'newly advantaged' class of people as a reaction to apartheid is nothing short of brain dead.
The solution is to invest the country's resources in education, give people the opportunity to live up to their potential. Keep away from another version of 'ethnic socialism'. That won't wash in the 21st century.
To waste BILLIONS of ZARs on making a few black pilots and a national airline, as window dressing, is to sentence the country to a life of poverty.
I am in no way silly enough to think that 'white SA' is gonna get away with an 'ooops, sorry' for the 50 odd yrs of apartheid.
But the one thing I do know for sure, is that if South Africa as a country, and SAA as a company wants to have ANY chance in a globalized economy, it has to look forward NOT backwards. I, or any other white South african, cant change the past. That F
K up has already been made.A greater man than Thabo Mbeki quite correctly said "...you don't help the poor by destroying the rich...". I am 40 yrs old. I didn't vote for the system, I just grew up in it. When it came to hiring time, there was NO job reservation to help me. But I do know I will be paying for the 'sins of my fathers' for a long time to come. Which is also odd, we only arrived in SA in 1970.
To create a 'newly advantaged' class of people as a reaction to apartheid is nothing short of brain dead.
The solution is to invest the country's resources in education, give people the opportunity to live up to their potential. Keep away from another version of 'ethnic socialism'. That won't wash in the 21st century.
To waste BILLIONS of ZARs on making a few black pilots and a national airline, as window dressing, is to sentence the country to a life of poverty.
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To all the proponents of change for the sake of change and in the name of affirmative action....keep doing so and see how it saves SAA from the dolldrums it is already in.
Already the European operators are full to capacity by passenger's choice while SAA is having to cut back routes and not flying at same capacity as its competitors.
Forget about building and developing anything in South Africa, here we can just rename and destroy!
RIP SAA, once your transformation is complete you will have to change and concentrate on your routes to Mafekeng, Polokwane, M'thata, Bisho etc etc etc.
Already the European operators are full to capacity by passenger's choice while SAA is having to cut back routes and not flying at same capacity as its competitors.
Forget about building and developing anything in South Africa, here we can just rename and destroy!
RIP SAA, once your transformation is complete you will have to change and concentrate on your routes to Mafekeng, Polokwane, M'thata, Bisho etc etc etc.
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Let them have SAA
Hey Stubbies
Sounds like you and I have travelled the same route. All those hard hours away from home living in sh*t holes (spend a week in a container once Hotel Congo) hoping that once we got our necessary hours we could also join the then proud elite. Then to come home and hear that afirmative action is now the new game. Luckily, we all new that it would spell the end for SAA and look now.
I am glad and proud that I DO NOT fly for SAA. Let them have it. It will all be over after 2010 anyway. My advice to any pilot in SA now doing the hard contract work, look overseas. The pilot shortage is here. The time has come to get what you deserve. Companies are scraping the bottom of the barrel. got phonecalls from companies all of a sudden who i sent cv's to more than a year ago and then they did not even have the decency to reply but now they want me to come and work there........
Sounds like you and I have travelled the same route. All those hard hours away from home living in sh*t holes (spend a week in a container once Hotel Congo) hoping that once we got our necessary hours we could also join the then proud elite. Then to come home and hear that afirmative action is now the new game. Luckily, we all new that it would spell the end for SAA and look now.
I am glad and proud that I DO NOT fly for SAA. Let them have it. It will all be over after 2010 anyway. My advice to any pilot in SA now doing the hard contract work, look overseas. The pilot shortage is here. The time has come to get what you deserve. Companies are scraping the bottom of the barrel. got phonecalls from companies all of a sudden who i sent cv's to more than a year ago and then they did not even have the decency to reply but now they want me to come and work there........
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Does'nt matter what we do, we as white sef efricans will always be seen as the racists in the whole system!!! I am so sick and tired of being blamed for everything that goes wrong in our beautifull country. We are however in a catch 22. We should just leave...all of us...and maybe one day to return and rebuild what is left of this place!!!When who ever is done turning this place into a bigger sh1le!!!!. Maybe if we start calling a spade a spade then things will start going better.
I feel sorry for the averege joe with no qualifications because they are going to sit here, stuck in the crossfire!!!!
Why can the supporters of Zuma, Msimang, Selebi and all the rest not see what they are doing to themselves and to the country by keeping this people in force!!!F
ing stupid if you ask me. Funny thing is, after each 2 month contract , coming back, a person could actually see how the quality of life here are sucked out by the ever increasing crime and the bast
's that run this country!
And for us guys at the bottom of the food chain it will be a hard few years ahead before we could make it out or we might just be saved by the pilot demanding market!!!!
I have also done my fair share of contract flying and will probably still do some time in the darkness.
Just the 2 cents worth from a youngster in the industry also trying to make it through!!!
le!!!!. Maybe if we start calling a spade a spade then things will start going better. I feel sorry for the averege joe with no qualifications because they are going to sit here, stuck in the crossfire!!!!
Why can the supporters of Zuma, Msimang, Selebi and all the rest not see what they are doing to themselves and to the country by keeping this people in force!!!F
ing stupid if you ask me. Funny thing is, after each 2 month contract , coming back, a person could actually see how the quality of life here are sucked out by the ever increasing crime and the bast's that run this country!And for us guys at the bottom of the food chain it will be a hard few years ahead before we could make it out or we might just be saved by the pilot demanding market!!!!
I have also done my fair share of contract flying and will probably still do some time in the darkness.
Just the 2 cents worth from a youngster in the industry also trying to make it through!!!
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Pilotd.
Boet, if I look at your use of the English language, I am deeply concerned about your schooling!! But who lets academic qualifications get in the way on the way to the top - look at all spheres of society in the NEW SA!!
The answer is simple my friends - I left SA because I was tired of flying with "tokens"! So nice to work with people who have a passion for flying, and not just "werking"! Nothing have, or will change!
Boet, if I look at your use of the English language, I am deeply concerned about your schooling!! But who lets academic qualifications get in the way on the way to the top - look at all spheres of society in the NEW SA!!
The answer is simple my friends - I left SA because I was tired of flying with "tokens"! So nice to work with people who have a passion for flying, and not just "werking"! Nothing have, or will change!
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Pilot D
What are you smoking. Things have been done in the past that we are paying for now and it seems the powers that be want us whities to pay for their c.....kups they are making now. This is africa and the sooner you realise what is going on and which way this country is heading then better. Have you travelled much north of our borders at all. If you flew in the GA sector you would see a lot more than you see in the protected airline environment. I would like to know where you applied to in the charter sector or even contract sector as there are a number of jobs going if you have the required experience. As for business aviation i have not heard of any applications by PDI's as i have been told it is a more lucrative job to fly for an airline than a corporation. Correct me if i am wrong but there is also a theory that an airline job for a PDI is guaranteed to be a quicker path to the ALMIGHTY position of Captain (THE BIG LEFT SEAT) due to the acceleration of PDI. Don't come with the race thing either as PDI refers to white females and Indian male and females. I am open to correction if i have my facts wrong but after almost 21years in general aviation this is what i have seen. I have not met many PDI's that have enjoyed and stayed in the varioys forms of GA but all headed off to the more lucrative airline jobs so they could get the 4 stripes on their pyjamas and wear their uniforms on a nationally televised hypnotist/magician show. What happened at SAA was not right either to the PDI's but remember it also happened to the white males at the time . People got bumped off short lists for pilots family members amongst other things. It is not right what is happening now but something is very wrong at SAA at the moment. Good luck to everyone who leaves and especially those who stay.
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Fortunately for Pilotd - he is exactly the type that SAA or SA on the whole is looking for. He is the product of the outcome based education where the common denominator has been lowered to suit the need of "we -da people" It is happening all over SA. The question is: how long before business SA and the economy on the whole (that has been extremely strong up to now)takes the same route that is in store for SAA?
My prediction for SAA-
1.exodus of the white pilots (how many still remains to be seen)- this will be used ad infinitum by management to cover up any shortcoming or fup's in the future
2. Planes on the ground with goverment stepping in with take-over money and getting direct entries from elsewhere ( hey-air zimbabwe is still flying and I am sure some of their "cadres" will be keen on joining their families in SA)
3. Selling off all international routs- (you must realise that it is here where SAA actually faces compition - so move on to Africa where there is no real competition as yet??)
4. SAA becomes the national and regional carrier with the "right" quotas of staff (must get representation of the countries demographics you know!) and awarding itself all the "best airline in/to africa" awards!
I am more that just a little negative at the moment, but feel we must face facts? Where is that damn parachute!
My prediction for SAA-
1.exodus of the white pilots (how many still remains to be seen)- this will be used ad infinitum by management to cover up any shortcoming or f
up's in the future2. Planes on the ground with goverment stepping in with take-over money and getting direct entries from elsewhere ( hey-air zimbabwe is still flying and I am sure some of their "cadres" will be keen on joining their families in SA)
3. Selling off all international routs- (you must realise that it is here where SAA actually faces compition - so move on to Africa where there is no real competition as yet??)
4. SAA becomes the national and regional carrier with the "right" quotas of staff (must get representation of the countries demographics you know!) and awarding itself all the "best airline in/to africa" awards!
I am more that just a little negative at the moment, but feel we must face facts? Where is that damn parachute!
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Lets not detract from the real problem at hand here. SAA is where it is today because of past incompetent leadership. All of whom happen to be WHITE!
So there seems to be no basis in the argument that the reason for the perceived demise in the national airline is based on racial factors.
Incompetence is found in all races, nationalities and cultures...
Twinjock:
Please take the log out of your eye mate, most of the carriers in the middle east have a cadet programme too. This is how life is, it is their country, and it is only fair that they attempt to put designated groups in their aircraft.
So, you really are still flying with "tokens". I'd like to see the look on your face when their cadets bypass you due to the fact that a seniority system is non-existent in these companies.
But, my argument is. You make the best of a perceived bad situation ( its only bad depending on your point of reference). If not, you remove yourself from the environment causing the stress (like twinjock here, who however, still finds it necessary to peruse the African forums, I'm not the only one confused here, I'm sure).
Grow up...there are some things in life that you cannot change, like the macro-environment.
Whites will not leave South Africa en masse. 13 years have passed since the collective whinging started, and yet still over 5 million remain! And 13 years is enough time to get on a plane/boat/train/car and scatter.
The grass is not always greener on the other side. Read some of the posts by our Aussie contributers...not happy campers.
PS: The aircraft I fly for SAA to Harare (always full) is for some reason still populated with middle age white men. The word "opportunist" comes to mind!
So there seems to be no basis in the argument that the reason for the perceived demise in the national airline is based on racial factors.
Incompetence is found in all races, nationalities and cultures...
Twinjock:
The answer is simple my friends - I left SA because I was tired of flying with "tokens"!
So, you really are still flying with "tokens". I'd like to see the look on your face when their cadets bypass you due to the fact that a seniority system is non-existent in these companies.
But, my argument is. You make the best of a perceived bad situation ( its only bad depending on your point of reference). If not, you remove yourself from the environment causing the stress (like twinjock here, who however, still finds it necessary to peruse the African forums, I'm not the only one confused here, I'm sure).
Grow up...there are some things in life that you cannot change, like the macro-environment.
Whites will not leave South Africa en masse. 13 years have passed since the collective whinging started, and yet still over 5 million remain! And 13 years is enough time to get on a plane/boat/train/car and scatter.
The grass is not always greener on the other side. Read some of the posts by our Aussie contributers...not happy campers.
PS: The aircraft I fly for SAA to Harare (always full) is for some reason still populated with middle age white men. The word "opportunist" comes to mind!
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Jetnut
Before you shout your mouth off check your facts. I have flown for one of the middle east carriers for the last ten years. We do have a cadet scheme, like most airlines do, but there is no jumping up the line, as promotion to command is done purely on hours requirement and seniority,i.e if your hours are good and your seniority number is good you will be put forward for command course regardless of nationality expat or local.
Before you shout your mouth off check your facts. I have flown for one of the middle east carriers for the last ten years. We do have a cadet scheme, like most airlines do, but there is no jumping up the line, as promotion to command is done purely on hours requirement and seniority,i.e if your hours are good and your seniority number is good you will be put forward for command course regardless of nationality expat or local.