No Job For Outsider
(Russian Gynegology)
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Still not fair. Very unusual attitude in this business. I bet there is more South Africans employed outside than this company is able to employ in total...Such decision should have nothing to do if there is unemployed low time Cessna pilots or not in the country.
If a European or American company was o say the same thing they would be hammered to hell and back in the courts and branded as racist and social pariahs.
It seems that there is one rule for an African wanting to work in Europe or America, and a totally opposite rule for a Non-African wanting to work in Africa.
I have read enough threads on here where people have talked about the vast numbers of African pilots flying abroad because the jobs are not available locally, but they don't continue the equation that this must mean African pilots are taking jobs from the many out of work locals in the countries they have gone to. If you don't believe that there are out of work pilots in Europe and the USA take a look at the forums for those areas.
If a pilot has the correct qualifications then they should get equal opportunity for any position, in any country they apply to.
Well that is utopia and probably won't be achieved i n my life time (which hopefully has some way to go yet
)
It seems that there is one rule for an African wanting to work in Europe or America, and a totally opposite rule for a Non-African wanting to work in Africa.
I have read enough threads on here where people have talked about the vast numbers of African pilots flying abroad because the jobs are not available locally, but they don't continue the equation that this must mean African pilots are taking jobs from the many out of work locals in the countries they have gone to. If you don't believe that there are out of work pilots in Europe and the USA take a look at the forums for those areas.
If a pilot has the correct qualifications then they should get equal opportunity for any position, in any country they apply to.
Well that is utopia and probably won't be achieved i n my life time (which hopefully has some way to go yet
)
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BLAME?
Dear Cessnafan
there is not blame on my topic, but I hope you never be in mine same position to need a job with family to support.
Thank you Kopeloi ,surely not
Guys for all your support.
Riccardo Volante
there is not blame on my topic, but I hope you never be in mine same position to need a job with family to support.
Thank you Kopeloi ,surely not
Guys for all your support.
Riccardo Volante
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Riccardo and all you others, your views are respected, Riccardo I know how you feel man, I'm an experienced ATPL and finding difficulty in getting a flying post in SA due to the excess of pilots here.
I hope something comes up for you.
I hope something comes up for you.
Last edited by Cessnafan; 16th Jul 2005 at 11:51.
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OPINION
It is my opinion that when pilots ,like me , are desperate for job they have the tendency to blame others pilot for not getting one,but the reality of the fact,and I say for my own experience,that this dirty game is good only for the operator so they can have not pilots professional but dogs that have to say thank you everyday of their life for having a job.The point is when you see the owner of any air company with nice big cars ,nice dress and so on just remeber that those guys they have to say thank you to us ,because we work hard for let them to have a lot of money.We are professional pilots and not dogs.we are pilots ,not italian ,polish , South African and so on.Just remeber to stay focus on that.Wars between pilots are only useful to damage our category.Remebre when you fly in bad wheater ,when you land with one engine failure. We are PILOTS
it is time that we WAKE UP.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
it is time that we WAKE UP.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
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huh?
"It seems that there is one rule for an African wanting to work in Europe or America, and a totally opposite rule for a Non-African wanting to work in Africa."
Since when can a South African work in the States or Europe without a work permit or residency?
And then even if you have these, how often will they give you a validation - very seldom.
The SA pilots working outside of the borders of the country are still flying South African Registered aircraft for South African companies in most cases, and there are many non-South Africans flying for these companies. My co-pilot at present is a European, as was my previous co-pilot, as are many of the other pilots that fly for my (South African) company.
Validations are readily handed out by the SA CAA with minimal effort needed to obtain the validation.
Even though I hold a SA ATPL with European passport, what chance do I have of flying in Europe on my licence - pretty much nil unless I retrain for a JAA licence.
"If a European or American company was to say the same thing they would be hammered to hell and back in the courts and branded as racist and social pariahs."
I suggest you check out the application requirements for most European airlines. For example British Airways (britishairwaysjobs.com) state as a requirement:
"Entitled to live and work in the EU without time restriction"
Social pariahs? I think not, more like the norm in any country.
Not sure what you are whinging about.
"It seems that there is one rule for an African wanting to work in Europe or America, and a totally opposite rule for a Non-African wanting to work in Africa."
Since when can a South African work in the States or Europe without a work permit or residency?
And then even if you have these, how often will they give you a validation - very seldom.
The SA pilots working outside of the borders of the country are still flying South African Registered aircraft for South African companies in most cases, and there are many non-South Africans flying for these companies. My co-pilot at present is a European, as was my previous co-pilot, as are many of the other pilots that fly for my (South African) company.
Validations are readily handed out by the SA CAA with minimal effort needed to obtain the validation.
Even though I hold a SA ATPL with European passport, what chance do I have of flying in Europe on my licence - pretty much nil unless I retrain for a JAA licence.
"If a European or American company was to say the same thing they would be hammered to hell and back in the courts and branded as racist and social pariahs."
I suggest you check out the application requirements for most European airlines. For example British Airways (britishairwaysjobs.com) state as a requirement:
"Entitled to live and work in the EU without time restriction"
Social pariahs? I think not, more like the norm in any country.
Not sure what you are whinging about.
Last edited by Woof etc; 16th Jul 2005 at 12:40.
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I remember trying to work in Europe, only to be told that I did not have right of abode. In the USA you get told that you do not have a green card. In Australia you do not have a criminal conviction. Ricardo...get used to it just because you have a pilots lices from Europe it does not mean that you can bypass each countries labour laws...it works both ways mate!!!
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Skycap, when I say experienced, couple of thousand hours with all the popular ratings like 90, 200, 1900, 208 etc with decent command time on all types, one would think that would be enough to get a job fairly easily. Whats your opinion on that?
woof, whether by design or mistake you have misunderstood my point.
The question of government permissions wasn't mentioned in my posting because that is a totally different kettle of fish. I'm sure you are aware that a European or American has many governmental hoops to go through to get a permanant position in West Africa, so it isn't very different to Europe for an African. If the company needs you they will make it possible no matter what race, colour or creed you are.
I was talking about the attitude of protectionism based solely on where you come from in the world when being interviewed for a position. On another thread that I have contributed to regularly, the local pilots were complaining that the qualifying requirements for some advertised positions were set too high and that the spec should be lowered to get local pilots into the jobs because it was wrong that ex pats can fly for a West African airline. Actually they were saying in essence was 'I don't have the hours, so lower them'. I believe the airline in question received quite a few applications from local pilots who met or were very close to the qualifications, and quite a few from non locals. The criteria for acceptance was experience and ability, nothing else.
Simple and fair to all, no discrimination at all, which is how it should be in all areas of the world.
The question of government permissions wasn't mentioned in my posting because that is a totally different kettle of fish. I'm sure you are aware that a European or American has many governmental hoops to go through to get a permanant position in West Africa, so it isn't very different to Europe for an African. If the company needs you they will make it possible no matter what race, colour or creed you are.
I was talking about the attitude of protectionism based solely on where you come from in the world when being interviewed for a position. On another thread that I have contributed to regularly, the local pilots were complaining that the qualifying requirements for some advertised positions were set too high and that the spec should be lowered to get local pilots into the jobs because it was wrong that ex pats can fly for a West African airline. Actually they were saying in essence was 'I don't have the hours, so lower them'. I believe the airline in question received quite a few applications from local pilots who met or were very close to the qualifications, and quite a few from non locals. The criteria for acceptance was experience and ability, nothing else.
Simple and fair to all, no discrimination at all, which is how it should be in all areas of the world.
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GET USE TO IT?
Dear Frogman1484
you should read my last reply at the present topic a little be better.As I can see nothing change in pilot pride.When we talk about it we forget that. At the time I was in USA I saw many South African and Africa come to work even because to get the validation in USA it is very easy.Now talking about work permit in USA was eanough a student visa or temporary work pertmit that was most of the cases was granted if were going as student "pilot"or with exchange student program.Now talking about Europa you can get the ATPL in England with 2 hours of exams EASA not difficult but same almost of the SA CAA .Please refer to EASA web side.For residensy in EU I know many africans resident in London and also pilots there how do they do that?
If you have a job especially in England you can get very easy the residency in EU.Please go the Embassy of England web and you will find out.
As I said before this form of warsbetween pilots are good only for those operator that needs to have pilots a step down so they can have avalaible little pets for their games.
WAKE UP GUYS
WE ARE PILOTS NOT DOGS
stand up
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
you should read my last reply at the present topic a little be better.As I can see nothing change in pilot pride.When we talk about it we forget that. At the time I was in USA I saw many South African and Africa come to work even because to get the validation in USA it is very easy.Now talking about work permit in USA was eanough a student visa or temporary work pertmit that was most of the cases was granted if were going as student "pilot"or with exchange student program.Now talking about Europa you can get the ATPL in England with 2 hours of exams EASA not difficult but same almost of the SA CAA .Please refer to EASA web side.For residensy in EU I know many africans resident in London and also pilots there how do they do that?
If you have a job especially in England you can get very easy the residency in EU.Please go the Embassy of England web and you will find out.
As I said before this form of warsbetween pilots are good only for those operator that needs to have pilots a step down so they can have avalaible little pets for their games.
WAKE UP GUYS
WE ARE PILOTS NOT DOGS
stand up
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
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We Hide The Real Problem
I have been travel around the world and working as pilot also around the world.I share my job with other pilots in needs of job, I share info of opening with others, but what I found out finally that the problem is on us pilots and not any where else if we do not have job or if the conditions of job is not good where we work.We belive if we shut up , if we put down other pilots in front our boss , if we are sun of gun we will have the better job .Will come the time when we we will be in need of others at that point we already have been destroyed the market.I have eard operatos say pilots are handycap,pilots should pay for having a job as pilot. I eard pilots say that pilots complaints too much.I saw pilots died , I saw pilots working in pizzeria,I saw pilots cleaning toilet for living.It is all right? shall we get use to that?Most of pilots always think that will never happent to them .WRONG.I saw many pilots arrogant and selfish pilots loosing their job from company that nobody will never immagine.Than what?Cry for mama?
I guess
Riccardo Volante
I guess
Riccardo Volante