MelEager, It think you mean the Cessna 404 Titan G-ILGW accident, near Glasgow on September 3rd ,1999.
The positioning crew was from Airtours International Airways and was to fly a charter B757 from Aberdeen to Palma de Malorca. https://assets.publishing.service.go...001_G-ILGW.pdf By the way, what is a "Perf Cat A aircraft" ? My understanding is that a CAT A aircraft is one having a final approach speed lower or equal to 90kt. So, it's a small aircraft and it looks to conflict with your other criteria. |
I'm not in the aviation industry, just interested, and I would like to ask a couple of questions please.
1. In relation to VFR and IR flying, firstly, I presume it is reasonable to assume that a VFR only pilot will have a fair knowledge of the cockpit instruments and how to use them, but not so much of instrument landing techniques. When flying over sea on a moonless night, is that still considered a VFR flight? 2. Not being a commercial pilot, he will be restricted to 6,000 feet. If there was an emergency would he be allowed to fly higher then 6,000 feet to deal with that emergency? 3. I've read the interim AAIB report and it says that 'at 1958 hrs, the controller asked the pilot to check if the aircraft’s altimeter pressure setting was correctly set to 1013 hPa, because the information on the radar indicated FL53. The pilot acknowledged and, shortly afterwards, the aircraft climbed to FL55'. I also notice wayward height movements of the aircraft as seen by radar in the last three minutes of flight. If flying into foul weather can the pressure as seen by the aircraft vary enough to give wrong readings? |
That wasnt the rational of the call. The controller was politely suggesting he could see some gash height holding and it was a polite way of asking him to fix it
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Originally Posted by Hipper
(Post 10401914)
I'm not in the aviation industry, just interested, and I would like to ask a couple of questions please.
1. In relation to VFR and IR flying, firstly, I presume it is reasonable to assume that a VFR only pilot will have a fair knowledge of the cockpit instruments and how to use them, but not so much of instrument landing techniques. When flying over sea on a moonless night, is that still considered a VFR flight? 2. Not being a commercial pilot, he will be restricted to 6,000 feet. If there was an emergency would he be allowed to fly higher then 6,000 feet to deal with that emergency? 3. I've read the interim AAIB report and it says that 'at 1958 hrs, the controller asked the pilot to check if the aircraft’s altimeter pressure setting was correctly set to 1013 hPa, because the information on the radar indicated FL53. The pilot acknowledged and, shortly afterwards, the aircraft climbed to FL55'. I also notice wayward height movements of the aircraft as seen by radar in the last three minutes of flight. If flying into foul weather can the pressure as seen by the aircraft vary enough to give wrong readings? 1. Yes 2. Not restricted to 6000'. Ironically, a private flight could have been undertaken legally (although this wasn't) but a commercial flight with pax in that aircraft is illegal at night. 3. Yes sort of. But the reason for the instruction to check 1013 was because he was flying to a "flight level" eg he sets 1013 and then FL55 is when the altimeter reads 5500'. The controller could see he was either low or had the wrong setting. Above a certain altitude known as transition altitude, aircraft always fly flight levels. The height of the transition altitude varies from place to place. |
I have it on good authority that David Ibbotson had an IMC rating. |
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10401938)
I have it on good authority that David Ibbotson had an IMC rating. |
Originally Posted by Hipper
(Post 10401914)
...assume that a VFR only pilot will have a fair knowledge of the cockpit instruments and how to use them, but not so much of instrument landing techniques.
Originally Posted by Hipper
(Post 10401914)
When flying over sea on a moonless night, is that still considered a VFR flight?
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ...01:0066:EN:PDF 1. The flight must remain at least 1000 ft above terrain (2000 ft in designated mountainous ares) 2. The vertical distance from airplane to clouds must be at least 1000 ft (so a total ground cloud distance of 2000 ft) OR the plane must be clear of clouds and with the surface in sight (which is not possible over the sea on a moonless night) and the clouds must be at least 1500 ft above the ground surface. Practically, for flying legally over the sea at night, the cloud ceiling must be way above 2000 ft. But "legal" doesn't mean "safe".
Originally Posted by Hipper
(Post 10401914)
Not being a commercial pilot, he will be restricted to 6,000 feet.
However, VFR flights are restricted to altitudes lower or equal to 19,500 ft. And VFR flights may not fly in controlled airspaces of class A. In UK, the airways are class A airspaces.
Originally Posted by Hipper
(Post 10401914)
If flying into foul weather can the pressure as seen by the aircraft vary enough to give wrong readings?
|
Originally Posted by 2Donkeys
(Post 10401943)
I have heard it rumoured on similarly good authority that it had long since ceased to be valid for want of renewal.
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Even if that ILS were in France, where the IMC rating would not have been valid in any case!
|
...furthermore he needed an IR on his FAA private which he didn't have. Nothing else would make his ILS into Nantes legal in an N reg.
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I guess the elephant in the room question is who was the person between the football agent and David Ibbotson being contacted and assigned to fly that sortie? Did that person know his capabilities and limitations. More importantly did they know the flight would be illegal? |
Thats not an elephant in the room - we have been told that was D Henderson
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With confirmation? It is one thing to alledge but another to prove. I have read newspaper reports that suggest the agent contacted David Henderson but can you prove he in turn assigned David Ibbotson? The AAIB report suggests the aircraft was not registered with the FAA to carry out commercial flights. Even if the pilot had an IMC did he also have a night rating? N264DB was registered in the USA and could not be used for commercial operations without permission from the FAA and CAA. At the time of writing there was no evidence that such permission had been sought or granted. To fly an aircraft registered in the USA between EASA Member States, a pilot must operate using the privileges of an FAA licence. This licence may be: a. Issued based on the privileges of an existing EASA PPL. If the EASA PPL contains a night rating, the FAA PPL will have night flying privileges. b. Issued by the FAA following the completion of an approved PPL course. The privileges of a licence gained in this way will include night flying. |
Sad to say that David Mearns's search for Dave Ibbotson has proved fruitless . Mr Mearns has reported this afternoon on Twitter :-
"Returning to Guernsey having completed this morning a thorough search of the Piper Malibu wreckage, 2 highly experienced technical divers spent 20 mins searching & filming the plane, sadly there was absolutely no sign of the pilot David Ibbotson." "Today we also organised a helicopter from the UK with two pilots and two trained observers to fly over the the Channel Islands to conduct an aerial search of the CI and French coastlines that are inaccessible. Sadly that search for David Ibbotson's body was also negative." |
Originally Posted by Hipper
(Post 10401914)
3. I've read the interim AAIB report and it says that 'at 1958 hrs, the controller asked the pilot to check if the aircraft’s altimeter pressure setting was correctly set to 1013 hPa, because the information on the radar indicated FL53. The pilot acknowledged and, shortly afterwards, the aircraft climbed to FL55'. I also notice wayward height movements of the aircraft as seen by radar in the last three minutes of flight.
If flying into foul weather can the pressure as seen by the aircraft vary enough to give wrong readings?
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10402065)
Clearly the legal responsibility for the aircraft extend beyond just the pilot who happened to be flying it at the time of the accident. Actually, probably not. As there was no Air Operators Certificate in force (nor could there be) and as a result no responsible officers, under British law the commander of the aircraft makes the decisions and takes the responsibility. A licenced engineer takes responsibility for the serviceability of the aircraft, but it is up to the commander to confirm this. Aircraft commanders have awesome authority, but equally awesome responsibilities. Probably the same in France and who knows with the Americans. |
The reminder to the pilot to set 1013 could be seen as fairly sloppy cockpit procedures. |
The pressure setting on the altimeter has no effect on the Mode C readout. The Mode C reference uses a seperate capsule that is calibrated to 1013. Either the reference capsule is faulty or the pilot is flying inaccurately. |
2Donkeys, Oggers, a pilot may legally fly an ILS approach under a VFR flight plan if the control allows it.
In VMC, of course. The arrival to Nantes had been in VMC under a VFR flight plan |
Originally Posted by Luc Lion
(Post 10402275)
2Donkeys, Oggers, a pilot may legally fly an ILS approach under a VFR flight plan if the control allows it.
In VMC, of course. The arrival to Nantes had been in VMC under a VFR flight plan |
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
(Post 10401938)
I have it on good authority that David Ibbotson had an IMC rating. |
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