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-   -   Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island.html)

wiggy 28th Jan 2019 07:26


Originally Posted by Hot 'n' High (Post 10372935)
Eutychus, I suspect you are in very good company - even amongst the Pros on here. I think you'll find all the Aviation professionals who have posted on/read this sad, sad thread, no matter how many years in the industry, will also have shaken their heads in disbelief and sadness on a significant number of occasions reading about this ......

FWIW, yes, count me in, ATPL, 40’ish years of flying professionally but never in this “niche area” of the industry and just appalled at what I now discover has been going on.

Sam Rutherford 28th Jan 2019 07:44

I do think we should be careful as a million assumptions slowly become 'fact' on this thread.

Whilst the whole duck thing is generally valid (walks like, looks like etc.), there is an absence of hard fact and fast amounts of conjecture...

Just sayin'

PS We're not the only ones reading this thread, and two people (with families) died...

Sillert,V.I. 28th Jan 2019 08:11


Originally Posted by cncpc (Post 10372991)
I have a friend who is very experienced ex Canadian TSB investigator. He tells me that when the actual cause of an accident is determined, it rarely is what everybody originally thought it was. Or was sure it was.

Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't; Cork and Chalgrove are two examples of relatively recent incidents where this forum basically had the primary cause nailed on day 1.

I'd agree that rigorous and thorough accident investigation makes a substantial contribution to air safety and I'm not suggesting for a moment that we shouldn't do all we reasonably can in this, or indeed any other case.

That said, it seems from what's been posted that there are many things that were wrong in this case that will remain wrong whatever the primary cause. In my opinion, even finding wreckage showing incontrovertible proof of catastrophic engine failure won't make conducting this flight in the manner it was conducted any more of a reasonable decision.

red9 28th Jan 2019 09:24


Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford (Post 10373054)
I do think we should be careful as a million assumptions slowly become 'fact' on this thread.

Whilst the whole duck thing is generally valid (walks like, looks like etc.), there is an absence of hard fact and fast amounts of conjecture...

Just sayin'

PS We're not the only ones reading this thread, and two people (with families) died...


Ironic though that before signing for Cardiff Sala got a Corporate jet and a Commercial Pilot , after signing he got a Plumber and a Piper

Echo Romeo 28th Jan 2019 09:36


Originally Posted by testpanel (Post 10372809)
A night rating is there for a reason.....
An Instrument rating is there for a reason.

An Instrument rating is a very useful rating for those with limited experience.
Off course city lights may be of help..... only if you know what to look for..
But we are now flying VMC.
If this "pilot" ended up at (a dark) night (over sea, with no horizon) with none of the above ratings/endorsements....

its suiside.....

Thank you for your words of wisdom, by the way, Suicide has only one s.

A and C 28th Jan 2019 09:48

Echo Romeo/ test panel
 
Suicide is something a person decides on and kills them self, flying by night in IMC without the appropriate training is not suicide it is stupidity.

Arkroyal 28th Jan 2019 09:54


Originally Posted by red9 (Post 10373111)
Ironic though that before signing for Cardiff Sala got a Corporate jet and a Commercial Pilot , after signing he got a Plumber and a Piper

Ironic indeed. And probably something to do with the poor lad agreeing to the hairbrained penny pinching fatal scheme.
It’s clear from his voice message that he expected somewhat better arrangements. What a pity he didn’t refuse to board the thing.

2unlimited 28th Jan 2019 10:41

There is of course some missing text or conversation, but did not McKay say to Sala : it's the SAME Company?

The question here of course what was McKay referring to? The same company that took Sala to Cardiff the first time?

I have tried to go trough most of the posts, and might have missed this, but did they Eclipse also fly him back to France after the signing for Cardiff? Or how did he return to France after the trip on the Eclipse?

I am curious to know what company is referring to when he says, it's the SAME company.

Daysleeper 28th Jan 2019 10:46


There is of course some missing text or conversation, but did not McKay say to Sala : it's the SAME Company?

The question here of course what was McKay referring to? The same company that took Sala to Cardiff the first time?
It's all supposition and guesswork but from he voicemail and messages I think at this point he (as in Sala) had asked to where to go to get access to the aircraft and the reply means the same ground handling agent at Nantes as before.

Gurnard 28th Jan 2019 10:49


Originally Posted by 2unlimited (Post 10373198)
There is of course some missing text or conversation, but did not McKay say to Sala : it's the SAME Company?

The question here of course what was McKay referring to? The same company that took Sala to Cardiff the first time?

I have tried to go trough most of the posts, and might have missed this, but did they Eclipse also fly him back to France after the signing for Cardiff? Or how did he return to France after the trip on the Eclipse?

I am curious to know what company is referring to when he says, it's the SAME company.

He returned to NTS on the fated PA46 which may or may not have flown via GCI. The original plan was that it should.

Aireps 28th Jan 2019 10:59


Originally Posted by Auxtank (Post 10370728)
From the BBC Vid of DH (2015) it looks like a BK KT97 (immediately below the Strike Finder) which is Mode C

Nothing to say it didn't get an upgrade between then and now.

ELT circled in red from earlier post.

N264DB is in the Airframes dot org database with a Mode S Hex code: A28E26 (ICAO24). This strongly suggests that it was Mode S equipped.
None of the tracking sites have Mode S data though, while most have good coverage in the area. Mode S not switched on / unserviceable?

Sir Niall Dementia 28th Jan 2019 11:12

Looking at this thread, the sidebar advertising on my screen currently is all for Wingly. Cardiff-Jersy flights £108 per seat, Cardiff-Cherbourg for £139 per seat. Not the best place for such ads at the moment.

SND

red9 28th Jan 2019 11:12


Originally Posted by Daysleeper (Post 10373203)
It's all supposition and guesswork but from he voicemail and messages I think at this point he (as in Sala) had asked to where to go to get access to the aircraft and the reply means the same ground handling agent at Nantes as before.

No - I believe he was referring to the group of pilots that flew him around and their " company "

ATC Watcher 28th Jan 2019 11:19


Mode S not switched on / unserviceable?
unlikely to take off and/or enter class D airspace without a working transponder I would say , especially at night ., not to mention entering UK airspace afterwards... Only possibility is it went u/s or inadvertently turned to SBY in flight ( still happens ) But you would at least notice its departure from NTS on FR24 then.

Arkroyal 28th Jan 2019 12:27


Originally Posted by NAROBS (Post 10373249)
I'm getting the impression that general view on this forum is that this type of service conforms completely to the principle of jam-pot economics i.e. if the customer is stupid enough to select this type of service provider then they deserve all they get .

Then maybe you should try reading it.

You'll find that that the consensus is the opposite. That the public should be protected from being able to make uninformed decisions to become involved in this shady business of ‘sharing’.

Sam Rutherford 28th Jan 2019 12:34

NAROBS No, it's not saying that - but there is a mingling of what is illegal, and what people might not like but is legal.

Like lumping weed and tobacco in together, I suppose...

Some sharing is shady business, some is not.

Flap40 28th Jan 2019 12:37


Originally Posted by Aireps (Post 10373213)
N264DB is in the Airframes dot org database with a Mode S Hex code: A28E26 (ICAO24). This strongly suggests that it was Mode S equipped.
None of the tracking sites have Mode S data though, while most have good coverage in the area. Mode S not switched on / unserviceable?

Not necessarily. The UK CAA and possibly other authorities issued mode S Hex codes to to all aircraft about 10 years ago whether they were fitted or not.

helimutt 28th Jan 2019 13:23

Maybe it should be mandatory that all aircraft are trackable on sites like FR24 and Radarbox etc.

Air Soul 28th Jan 2019 13:29


Originally Posted by ATC Watcher (Post 10373240)
unlikely to take off and/or enter class D airspace without a working transponder I would say , especially at night ., not to mention entering UK airspace afterwards... Only possibility is it went u/s or inadvertently turned to SBY in flight ( still happens ) But you would at least notice its departure from NTS on FR24 then.


N264DB hasn’t ever been tracked by ADS-B Exchange, who don’t filter anything.


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