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-   -   Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island.html)

meleagertoo 2nd Oct 2019 10:01

I'm afraid it comes under the "all too difficult" heading at the CAA. I expect they have a pretty good idea who is doing this but realistically it is very hard to obtain sufficient proof to get a conviction. If they ramp-check an aircraft at a race meeting they can't detain passengers or question them and the pilot will simply say no money changed hands so it's a private flight. Who'se to say different?
Even in a case as high-profile as this the complex paper-trail of ownership seems to hve been extremely difficult to follow and if all the protagonists deny any knowledge or say it wasn't me, someone else organised it prosecution seems agonisingly slow and difficult.

Hot 'n' High 7th Oct 2019 09:50


Originally Posted by meleagertoo (Post 10584697)
I'm afraid it comes under the "all too difficult" heading at the CAA. I expect they have a pretty good idea who is doing this .........

Sadly the case meleagertoo, and not helped at all by the regulators themselves who actively "approve" the Wingly's of this world and, thereby, seem to further cloud the "grey" area - even in the minds of those of us involved in the industry. What hope does "Joe (and/or Jacquie!) Public" have to be aware of the legal questions/pitfalls of such flights?

As it is, there is another thread running about how active pilots gloss over the risks involved with GA when just talking to their loved ones - in case they get "grounded" by their families! If we pilots have difficulty justifying the risks.....

Occasionally there are cases where prosecutions are successful but, sadly, usually after the event when the evidence is, ahem, planted in a field (as in the case of the Barton Birdwatchers)! As has been previously stated, I think the Insurers will be the ones to lead on this - not that a little matter such as the integrity of the insurance cover will overly worry those involved in such practices.

What a mess! H 'n' H

Geriaviator 7th Oct 2019 10:17

The 'charter' business was flourishing when I was learning to fly 55 years ago. I know of three fatal accidents involving such trips, one fortunately on his way to pick up his passengers (hence his need to fly into IMC containing a very large rock) another in which the pilot was killed but passenger escaped with serious injuries and the third in which both persons died on a photographic trip which went 'just a bit lower and slower' for a better picture.

I agree with Hot'n'High that insurance may be the key. People need to be told that life insurance policies associated with mortgages, businesses etc. do not cover private flights, the normal requirement being a multi-engined aircraft flown by a commercial pilot under an AOC. If you get killed, and Wingly and the like carry a greater risk, then your family will be left penniless. One such case has already been highlighted in this thread. It is possible to obtain this cover, as I did in our flying days, but the premium loading will be substantial to reflect the extra risk.

Peter H 6th Nov 2019 20:31

Emiliano Sala family queries timing of carbon monoxide tests
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-50316013

Aso 14th Jan 2020 12:30

Any news on when the report will be out?

MPN11 21st Jan 2020 11:01

From today's Jersey Evening Post ...

‘Our investigation is now at an advanced stage and we intend to publish our final report by the end of March 2020.’
Full article here >>> https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2...-within-weeks/


Genghis the Engineer 21st Jan 2020 15:42

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/p...sary-statement

G

runway30 4th Mar 2020 23:22

AAIB final report to be published on March 13th.

ak7274 11th Mar 2020 13:07

BBC News - Emiliano Sala: No further action after manslaughter arrest
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51831150

runway30 11th Mar 2020 14:18


Originally Posted by ak7274 (Post 10710065)
BBC News - Emiliano Sala: No further action after manslaughter arrest
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51831150

I think that is a big hint that the operational irregularities will not be the cause of the accident.

BigEndBob 11th Mar 2020 20:06

I wonder if any of it will explain why the other pilot abandoned the other guy to go alone.
And i think the AAIB are wrong not to lift the wreckage, unless they are covering something up.
You could soon get some sub pirates to lift it.

BigEndBob 11th Mar 2020 20:07


Originally Posted by runway30 (Post 10710137)
I think that is a big hint that the operational irregularities will not be the cause of the accident.

Would reflect badly on the CAA.

WelshBarry 13th Mar 2020 14:54

Extraordinary
 
So, after all of this time, money and effort NOTHING will happen.
What happened to the agent or person/company that 'hired' the aircraft and pilot? What happened to the aircraft owner(s)?
These people were involved in an illegal operation and should surely be investigated and appropriate legal action taken.

What is the point of this costly investigation if it results in no action being taken against any of the guilty parties? And what sort of closure has this whitewash provided for Sala's parents and other relatives? None whatsoever.

I am completely baffled by this.

kit344 13th Mar 2020 14:58

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/airc...1-january-2019

Link to the AAIB report published today.

WelshBarry 13th Mar 2020 15:34

Thanks for the copy of the report.

Here is a quote:"Enforcement is challenging because it requires a large commitment of resources. It also requires the gathering of specific evidence against a pilot or broker which can be difficult to obtain. The Air Charter Association recommends specific steps52 that passengers can take before hiring an aircraft for a charter to verify that the flight will be legitimate. These include asking if the aircraft is licensed and asking to see an AOC and the insurance documents for the aircraft."


Does the average pax nipping off to the Med for a bit of sunshine normally ask to see a company's AOC or the Captain's license? I think not. That is why we have regulatory controls that the public have trust in. I assume that Mr Sala would have thought the same. I would be astonished if the agent(s) booking this flight were unaware that this was a bit of 'an iffy operation' and of course would be reflected in the costs involved. If the hirer had gone to a kosher operation for a Citation say, or similar, the costs would have been dramatically higher, as they (the hirer) would have been well aware of.

And what of the owners of the Piper? Can we seriously imagine that they were completely unaware of what 'their' aircraft was being used for?

I am disappointed and saddened by the authority's approach and final report because I have always been very impressed by the CAA and its various departments that I have had to dealt with over the years.

I do not believe that any of the people involved in the hire of this aircraft and pilot were unaware of its illegality. They should face the music

Halfwayback 13th Mar 2020 15:46

The AAIB report is now published.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...wales-51856402

Whopity 13th Mar 2020 19:48


What is the point of this costly investigation if it results in no action being taken against any of the guilty parties?
The role of the AAIB is to investigate the cause of accidents not to apportion blame.

I am disappointed and saddened by the authority's approach and final report because I have always been very impressed by the CAA
The AAIB has nothing to do with the CAA.

BigEndBob 13th Mar 2020 20:11

The AAIB just investigate the cause of the accident, one would assume to report on anything significant that might effect other aircraft's flight safety.
To that end the aircraft should have been pulled from the sea floor and at the least the exhaust tested to confirm or deny the CO2 theory.
It just seems they are hiding something.
It's then up to the CAA to investigate parties concerned as to the legalities of the flight, with the police then going i assume to cps for any prosecutions.

And what of the other pilot, did he not feel a duty of care knowing the experience of the crash pilot.
What was his reason for not flying the aircraft. I would suggest we will never be allowed to know.

vanHorck 13th Mar 2020 23:18

This reminds me of the FAA's culpability towards the MAX. The comparison to me is "peanuts for monkeys", insufficient funding for authorities such as the FAA and CAA means they don't check well enough. It s balancing the cost versus the risk and sometimes things go wrong but in aviation often at a human cost.

I would love to see the owner, operator, pilot and "fixer" of the charter brought to court. Even at the risk of not being convicted, I would hope such a public shaming would help reduce this outrage. I mean come on! A pilot flying illegally in multiple ways in a sub standard plane!? And then as a way of moving forward the AAIB suggesting the client checks the operators and pilots license!? The client will never be able to do this, he has to be able to rely on his "fixer".

The pilot and planes licensing web is so complex that on this thread alone there were multiple debates about a UK license with a piggy back FAA license, with restrictions etc and what would be the correct interpretation. The client will never be able to do this, he has to be able to rely on the fixer. That fixer needs bringing to court along the others. The public deserves protection. The lack of outrage worries me.

My two cents.

PAXboy 14th Mar 2020 00:51

Someone tried to save money. The transfer fee for Sala is reported at £15m If I had paid 15m for a person - I'd be sure to make sure they were transported with the greatest of care.

I suspect that this process of transporting players (who do no tlive near regional or hub airports) has been going on for some time and has, 'Always worked before'.



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