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-   -   Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island.html)

DaveReidUK 15th Aug 2019 20:18

I see the DM still hasn't managed to get the owner's name right.

Sir Niall Dementia 15th Aug 2019 22:08


Originally Posted by runway30 (Post 10544978)
If the illegal act wasn’t the cause of death then that gets him off the hook

No it doesn’t. The whole flight was illegal, CO poisoning doesn’t let anybody off the hook, from the statement by the engineer/airfield owner things may be even worse. An illegal flight in an aircraft that may have been known to have airworthiness problems. I truly hope that someone goes to prison for a very long time.

Illegal CAT still goes on despite this sorry mess, reporting it achieves bugger all. This was a high profile accident, I know of at least 2 others, one with no injuries, one where just the pilot died. Hopefully Sala’s death may help shine a light on all the cowboys who think that what they do is acceptable practice.

SND

DownWest 16th Aug 2019 05:43

As an example, we used to run a early Seneca as a taxi, back in the 70s. On a trip with px, the first indication of a problem was the front seat passenger threw up suddenly. The pilot guessed the cause and shut off the heating while diverting to the nearest airfield. He then bought the a/c back to base for us to look at it. I found a hole in the stb engine cowling in front of the intake for the heating. The exhaust had cracked and the gas had burned it's way through the GRP on it's way to the intake. Since we needed the a/c the next day, I pulled the manafold for the approved welder to fix and worked late into the night at home remoulding the cowling with a slight bump to give a bit more clearance over the pipe. I told the CAA area surveyor, but I can't remember now if it resulted in any action.
I expect modding the cowling would be a no-no now.

GotTheTshirt 16th Aug 2019 07:39

Maintenance on an FAA registered aircraft has to be signed off by either an FAA licenced mechanic or an FAA Approved Repair Station. Be interesting to see which in this case.

double_barrel 16th Aug 2019 08:55

I am surprised and very impressed that it was possible to quantify CO-Hb in a body that had been underwater for so long - I trust they are really confident. I would have expected all the post mortem changes of pH and osmolarity to mess-up the protein 3d structure and destroy the binding sites. I guess they measure the ratio of COHb : O2Hb, but they must break down at a differential rate depending on all sorts of factors. Of course it must be very cold at depth in the English Channel which will help. I am not doubting the result, but I must say a 2nd body with the same evidence would have greatly increased the confidence this this wasn't some kind of artifact.

medod 16th Aug 2019 12:23


Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 10546198)
I see the DM still hasn't managed to get the owner's name right.

At this point I don't think anyone cares. You could email the journalist to correct them if you're sure it's wrong.

DaveReidUK 16th Aug 2019 15:08


Originally Posted by medod (Post 10546728)
At this point I don't think anyone cares. You could email the journalist to correct them if you're sure it's wrong.

I suspect that the AAIB, CAA and FAA do indeed care who owns the aircraft, particularly in light of the latest information that's emerging about its alleged condition.

But they probably don't read the Daily Mail. :O

booke23 16th Aug 2019 19:24


Originally Posted by double_barrel (Post 10546562)
I am surprised and very impressed that it was possible to quantify CO-Hb in a body that had been underwater for so long - I trust they are really confident. I would have expected all the post mortem changes of pH and osmolarity to mess-up the protein 3d structure and destroy the binding sites. I guess they measure the ratio of COHb : O2Hb, but they must break down at a differential rate depending on all sorts of factors. Of course it must be very cold at depth in the English Channel which will help. I am not doubting the result, but I must say a 2nd body with the same evidence would have greatly increased the confidence this this wasn't some kind of artifact.

Would this explain why it took so long for the AAIB to disclose these results? (i.e. the testing procedure in these circumstances is very protracted)

skyrangerpro 16th Aug 2019 22:28


Originally Posted by Mike Flynn (Post 10546153)
The Mail has updated the story with a slant on ownership, management and maintenance of the aircraft.



Clearly a series of complicated legal cases will arise in the future.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stered-US.html

was DI passing himself off as DH?

nonsense 17th Aug 2019 05:59


Originally Posted by BigEndBob (Post 10545306)
Lets face it CO from the exhaust would probably include all the other horrible stuff that stinks...

And yet so many people have died from CO in cars, on boats, without noticing anything else in time.
Empirically, your logic is wrong.


MPN11 17th Aug 2019 07:54

CO happens all the time. From our local paper yesterday ...

A car enthusiast died from carbon monoxide poisoning after running his engine while working on his vehicle in a garage, an inquest has heard.
https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2...r-in-a-garage/

BluSdUp 17th Aug 2019 13:12

DavidReidUK
 
I trained a few FAA pilots on the Do328jet and ALL of them had great respect for The FAA and intended to keep their path as per rules and regs . Obsessively so in some cases.
And the FAA Inspectors I trained was a Chapter of its own.
With that as my background dealing with the FAA, I find it rather odd the arrangement with the UK CAA.
Now this was from 1999 to 2004 , if I remember correctly and considering the latest development in FAA with regards to lack of oversight at the heavy end of things, I suspect this tragic and avoidable accident will have consequences. In a positive was for flight safety.

I suspect EASA might hold this accident against the FAA and UK CAA.
I certainly do.

Regards
Cpt B

Chronus 17th Aug 2019 18:42

The first chapter in this drama was about the credentials of the pilot. The second chapter has now started with the aircraft brought in to the drama. But by far it will be the third chapter which will be the climax, when its authors and editors are revealed to the audience.

MPN11 18th Aug 2019 09:33


Originally Posted by Chronus (Post 10547794)
The first chapter in this drama was about the credentials of the pilot. The second chapter has now started with the aircraft brought in to the drama. But by far it will be the third chapter which will be the climax, when its authors and editors are revealed to the audience.

The 2 empty properties associated with the Keelys being used as a Registered Address adds a certain air of mystery! Dark forces at play here, methinks.

Midlifec 18th Aug 2019 10:17


Originally Posted by Chronus (Post 10547794)
The first chapter in this drama was about the credentials of the pilot. The second chapter has now started with the aircraft brought in to the drama. But by far it will be the third chapter which will be the climax, when its authors and editors are revealed to the audience.

Those authors and editors have of course had a significant period of time over which to collude and compare discoverable data, having dealt ”professionally” with some of the named individuals I’ll be very interested in the official understanding of the complex arrangements surrounding the ownership and operation of the aircraft, the maintenance of the aircraft and the commissioning of this fateful flight. Most of the named individuals have within my knowledge previously been involved in shady aircraft operations, commonly but not exclusively with US registered aircraft.

double_barrel 18th Aug 2019 17:30


Originally Posted by booke23 (Post 10547024)
Would this explain why it took so long for the AAIB to disclose these results? (i.e. the testing procedure in these circumstances is very protracted)

Very possibly. I expect that they used multiple different assay methods, although it's a little odd that the value was given as a single number rather than a confidence range.

A and C 18th Aug 2019 18:14

Double Barrel

If you use a single number in court you have to be precisely correct, if you use a confidence range the chances of it getting pulled apart by some smart lawyer are much reduced.

Chronus 18th Aug 2019 18:47

Considerations regarding ownership of the aircraft involve the reasons behind the choice for N registration for an aircraft based and operating in the EU. Here is an extract from am article published in Avbuyer, https://www.avbuyer.com/articles/ga-...n-trust-112085

"3. Non-US citizens may find it difficult to register their private aircraft in their home country.

The FAA has very favorable maintenance and registration requirements, and they are known for being supportive and understanding of private aviation. Some countries, however, have aircraft requirements that focus on the operations of commercial airliners. Their rules and regulations can be very onerous and burdensome to private aircraft owners. For this reason, owners may choose to register their aircraft outside of their home country. For example, in our interview with client Roger Harr, Roger pointed out that he was one of the first Cirrus owners in Europe. He bought his Cirrus before it was approved for purchase by EASA (the European Aviation Safety Agency), and the only way he could own and operate his new plane was to register it in the United States. Owners who live in countries with similar limitations on GA aircraft, may create a trust so that they can register their aircraft with the FAA in the United States."

Which then acutely aggravates the all too important question that has now arisen ,given the CAA report regarding the finding of high levels of CO on the remains of the passenger. What does very favourable, supportive and understanding mean. With the B737 MAX fiasco still unresolved, and today another big article about it in the Sunday Times, does it not perhaps cast more dark shadows over the FAA and our regulators in their role of guardians of public safety.

EXDAC 18th Aug 2019 19:37


Originally Posted by Chronus (Post 10548570)
What does very favourable, supportive and understanding mean. With the B737 MAX fiasco still unresolved, and today another big article about it in the Sunday Times, does it not perhaps cast more dark shadows over the FAA and our regulators in their role of guardians of public safety.

An FAA registered aircraft with a standard type certificate requires periodic inspection by an airframe and power plant mechanic with Inspection Authorization. That inspection is required at least once every 12 calendar months but may also be needed after 100 hours if that occurs first. What does, or does not, pass inspection is completely up to the IA performing the inspection. There is a huge range of "tolerance" for minor imperfections. I doubt any aircraft would ever pass inspection if every tiny discrepancy was grounds for failure.

My IA has also given my recent flight reviews. He signs off my airplane and he is prepared to fly in it. That's good enough for me.

The condition of a privately owned aircraft has little to do with FAA oversight or their concern with public safety.

meleagertoo 19th Aug 2019 10:37

A forty year old aircraft that FAA records apparently show has had no previous owners before the present shady one?
Despite being an aircraft that is alleged to have changed hands four times in one day? Four times? What possible reason can there be for that if not to cover up or obfuscate ownership and accountability?
An aircraft whose apparent owners' and close associates' addresses are all empty properties?
An aircraft involved in an fatal accident whose owner does not make themselves known?
An aircraft flown by an unlicenced pilot who appears to have identified himself at the airport of departure as someone else?

Never mind the entire operating environment surrounding the damn thing viz the whole business of football/racing charters, shady 'football managers' acting as charter brokers, maintenance organisations who have walked away from it etc.

To suggest this isn't an utter Pandora's Box of illegality from end to end is somewhat far-fetched, imo.



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