Senior Aviation/Austin Aviation
Together with our partners at Heliflight (UK) Ltd based at Gloucestershire Airport, we are able to offer a full range of Training to CAA/EASA Standard, including a Private Pilots Licence, a full Commercial Pilots Licence and a Flight Instructor Licence.
Cancel the 'assessment' and ask for your money back.
Or contact a local/national newspaper and conduct an 'undercover expose'. Or even get in touch with BBC's Watchdog: https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact
Or contact a local/national newspaper and conduct an 'undercover expose'. Or even get in touch with BBC's Watchdog: https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Been well and truly had
Having been whittled down from 200 to 10 applicants(apparently) I had my flight training today whether to see if I had the natural ability to fly a helicopter. After being told that I would have to pay for it as they had to use a 3rd party as well( Austin aviation, I'm sure these 2 companys both **** from the same pot btw) £290. I had my concerns but as they told me it would be 2-3 hours training I thought at the least I'd have an hours flying experience. 1st of all when I logged myself in at there office 1st thing I was told to do was to sign a disclaimer that I wouldn't ask for a refund, after that I was shown to Austin aviation with 9 other people for a pre flight briefing( I can only imagine that the missing 1 out of the 10 clued on these were con merchants) which taught us how helicopters work. When we were finished there we were told to decide between ourselves who has which turn in the helicopter. To my dismay we had literally a 10 minute flight in the helicopter with mr Alan austin( if that's his real name.) when the flight was over each person coming out of the helicopter was given a test which didnt even relate to what we had been taught. We were given 20 multiple choice mind boggling questions and weren't told that you had to finish the 20 questions by the time the next candidate was finished flying the helicopter(10mins) I was told just to tick the questions off quickly as it didnt matter( probably didnt as they probably have no intention of giving anyone a trainee helicopter job). They said they'd be in touch within the next 2 weeks if I'm successful which I doubt anyone who hàs applied for it has been. Thing is Mohammed said his interview was Monday morning and mine being Friday lunchtime, my thinking is they've had a 10 candidate session each morning and same for the afternoons so for a week of people being duped they're making £29000 off vulnerable people such as myself wanting to better him/herself in this current financial climate, being sold a dream of a better life. I just want whoever reads this to spread the message loud and clear STAY AWAY FROM SENIOR HELICOPTERS & AUSTIN AVIATION!!!!!! I've read that it's not just midlands they're targeting, they've advertised the same position in Chester as well as probably many other places. I'm not expecting to get my money back but I do want people who are looking to better themselves not to be fooled like I was( and probably 100s of others) if it sounds to good to be true 99.999999999% of the time It probably is. As for jerrysenior how do you sleep at night?
Join Date: May 2011
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I am appalled by all this. False hopes of a job, fake interviews and £290 for a ten minute experience in the helicopter. Unbelievable.
When you read back a few pages of this thread, you'll see an admission by 'jerrysenior' that he set up Austin Aviation. To claim they are a 3rd party company can be seen as fraud.
I think this is preying on desperate people, like so-called modelling agencies that promise the earth to young aspiring women with false hope of a modelling contract, as long as they pay a few hundred quid for some photos, also by some '3rd party' studio (which is owned and run by the agency).
To make this legit, it appears a young guy has been employed and will be trained up, and the cost is being met by the hundreds of wannabees who fork out £290 for a ten minute flight and made to go through a series of interviews and assessments to keep up the pretense of it being a 'job interview'
Great business model.
Immoral?? Unethical?? Illegal?? You decide.
I have a question - when you did your flight, which seat were you in? Were you in the right seat during this flight? Being in the 'correct' seat is important.
If you feel aggrieved by all this, then I suggest you contact the newspaper to make them aware of the false job advert and your local councils trading standard department. Perhaps the airfield management office would also like to know what's been going on under their noses.
There are lots of rules and regulations in flight training, both on the flight school and the airfield. Maybe some of these rules and regs are being broken? Austin Aviation piggybacks on another flight schools TRTO - maybe they should be informed about all this too?
Who do you know who can help you??
As for signing a disclaimer before you went for the briefing and test flight is a clear indication that they are covering their arses. If this was legitimate, no such paperwork would need to be signed!
In any walk of life, there will be those minority who set up schemes and scams and make a lot of money from naive and gullible people, classic schemes such as false modelling agencies charging young women for photos on false promises of getting modelling work will always be around.... doing this to wannabe helicopter pilots and charging almost £300 for a totally made-up "flight assessment test" is a new one on me.
I am shaking my head in disbelief.
This can't be good for our industry. We don't want helicopter pilot training to be viewed with the same kind of suspicion as we get when we receive emails from Nigerian businessmen who want to deposit £10,000,000 in our bank accounts. The longer this scheme is allowed to operate, the more it will tarnish the entire helicopter training industry.
When you read back a few pages of this thread, you'll see an admission by 'jerrysenior' that he set up Austin Aviation. To claim they are a 3rd party company can be seen as fraud.
I think this is preying on desperate people, like so-called modelling agencies that promise the earth to young aspiring women with false hope of a modelling contract, as long as they pay a few hundred quid for some photos, also by some '3rd party' studio (which is owned and run by the agency).
To make this legit, it appears a young guy has been employed and will be trained up, and the cost is being met by the hundreds of wannabees who fork out £290 for a ten minute flight and made to go through a series of interviews and assessments to keep up the pretense of it being a 'job interview'
Great business model.
Immoral?? Unethical?? Illegal?? You decide.
I have a question - when you did your flight, which seat were you in? Were you in the right seat during this flight? Being in the 'correct' seat is important.
If you feel aggrieved by all this, then I suggest you contact the newspaper to make them aware of the false job advert and your local councils trading standard department. Perhaps the airfield management office would also like to know what's been going on under their noses.
There are lots of rules and regulations in flight training, both on the flight school and the airfield. Maybe some of these rules and regs are being broken? Austin Aviation piggybacks on another flight schools TRTO - maybe they should be informed about all this too?
Who do you know who can help you??
As for signing a disclaimer before you went for the briefing and test flight is a clear indication that they are covering their arses. If this was legitimate, no such paperwork would need to be signed!
In any walk of life, there will be those minority who set up schemes and scams and make a lot of money from naive and gullible people, classic schemes such as false modelling agencies charging young women for photos on false promises of getting modelling work will always be around.... doing this to wannabe helicopter pilots and charging almost £300 for a totally made-up "flight assessment test" is a new one on me.
I am shaking my head in disbelief.
This can't be good for our industry. We don't want helicopter pilot training to be viewed with the same kind of suspicion as we get when we receive emails from Nigerian businessmen who want to deposit £10,000,000 in our bank accounts. The longer this scheme is allowed to operate, the more it will tarnish the entire helicopter training industry.
Join Date: Jan 2010
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I am similarly appalled, but not surprised. Regrettably, this outcome was hugely predictable. It surely has to be criminal fraud?
Assuming the story is true (as I am sure it is) maybe Pprune could do a huge favour to other wannabees and post a sticky warning at the top of the Rotorheads page?
Assuming the story is true (as I am sure it is) maybe Pprune could do a huge favour to other wannabees and post a sticky warning at the top of the Rotorheads page?
Just in case Mr Senior decides to come back and edit his original post, here it is:
just to clear a few pointers from the above, I own senior av, the address at 5 lower beobridge was my address when i registered the domain, if you google it you will see its 5 minutes down the road from wolverhampton airport where I also set up a flight school called austin aviation which is were g-chap comes into it, which is managed by us for the owner carl,feel free to go to austin aviation website and you will see me on the meet the team page, as for g-fox it was based at wolverhampton.we started senior av because we had students coming in asking about the vat, and because i'd claimed my tax and vat when i did my training we stared to help our students at the school,Im a bit long in the tooth but im doing my cplh ground school with phill croucher at captonline, we also purchase his superb study books and phil is also aware I set the school up with alan austin.
P.s no mystery guys, its just something new and we are here to help pilots and students from "any school in the uk" also we don't need a business address but if any guys want to meet me at our wolverhampton airfield austin aviation offices i'd be more than happy to do so.
did my training with robert power heliflght.
Jason Senior. "jerrysenior" nick name at school no mystery there either
P.s no mystery guys, its just something new and we are here to help pilots and students from "any school in the uk" also we don't need a business address but if any guys want to meet me at our wolverhampton airfield austin aviation offices i'd be more than happy to do so.
did my training with robert power heliflght.
Jason Senior. "jerrysenior" nick name at school no mystery there either
First of all I don't agree with what is going on and I believe that this is a practise praying on the young, naive, greedy (people want that £70k CPL(H) prize!) and vulnerable.
I guess it's a bit like music companies making CDs for pennies and selling for pounds.
How much do items of highstreet fashion cost to make? How much are they sold for?
What about the national lottery?!?
Years ago I used to fly around the boss of GHD Hair Straighteners - he made millions - why? Because he imported the product, boxed, ready to go on the shelf from China for £12 (inc tax & duty) and they sold to women who happily pay £100+ for a set!
If you want to make a lot of money you have to sell to a lot of people.
£290 for a 10minute flight that forms part of a 3 hour experience? Yes it seems a tad steep but you're never going to get an hour in an R44 from somebody who is looking to make a profit as well - It's circa £120 an hour just for fuel (and Wolverhampton's fuel ain't the cheapest in the UK).
My mate just sold his R44 Raven II and did some sums recently. Because Frank has insisted on so many mandatory things above and beyond the original maintenance schedule in years gone by it has cost more to run than expected. In fact it's cost him over £600 an hour (wet).
So in his aircraft a 10minute flight would be £100 for the aircraft alone.
Lets add an Instructor, premises, website, admin staff, landing fees, hangarage, advertising, telephone, stationary, annual business costs...
Then there is the all important profit!
(from Small Business - Chron.com)
Retail Clothing Industry Profit Margins
The retail clothing industry had an average gross profit margin of 48.46 percent in 2009 according to Butler Consultants. However, by the time you add up all the expenses involved in operating retail clothing stores, the average net profit margin is only 7.98 percent. If your expenses are typical, then around 7 to 12 percent net profit would be a reasonable goal.
Equipment Manufacturing Industry Profit Margins
Butler Consultants lists the gross profit margin of the equipment manufacturing industry as 31.98 percent in 2009. The net profit margin only works out to 6.81 percent, largely due to the significant capital expenses in this industry. Unless your expenses are much less than your competitors, you want to aim for at least 6 percent and perhaps up to 9 or 10 percent net profit for your equipment manufacturing business.
Telecommunications Industry Profit Margins
Gross profit margins averaged 86.51 percent for the telecommunications industry in 2010. While that seems like a healthy profit margin, overhead is very high in the telecommunications industry and the average net profit margin is only 10.99 percent. Assuming industry-average expenses, a reasonable profit margin would be anything between 10 and 15 percent.
Retail Electronics Industry Profit Margins
The average gross profit margin in the retail electronics industry come in on the mid to low side at 30.76 percent, but like all retail businesses, labor expenses are relatively high and the average net profit in the industry is only 4.68 percent. A net profit in the range of 5 to 8 percent would be reasonable for a retail electronics store.
Economy of Scale
Another important factor in determining a reasonable profit is the economy of scale of the business. A huge business like Walmart, for example, can afford a net profit of just a few percent on most items because of the volume of sales, but a local florist with a small sales volume needs to make profit margin several times that just to pay her bills and make a decent profit.
Great Business Model.
If it's too good to be true IT GENERALLY IS.
Highly unethical IMO (I won't pretend to have a humble one).
Lets hope some of these people actually DO get their CPL(H) whether that's through Senior Aviation or by working hard, saving, scrimping, paying bit by bit or raiding daddy's piggy bank.
I guess it's a bit like music companies making CDs for pennies and selling for pounds.
How much do items of highstreet fashion cost to make? How much are they sold for?
What about the national lottery?!?
Years ago I used to fly around the boss of GHD Hair Straighteners - he made millions - why? Because he imported the product, boxed, ready to go on the shelf from China for £12 (inc tax & duty) and they sold to women who happily pay £100+ for a set!
If you want to make a lot of money you have to sell to a lot of people.
£290 for a 10minute flight that forms part of a 3 hour experience? Yes it seems a tad steep but you're never going to get an hour in an R44 from somebody who is looking to make a profit as well - It's circa £120 an hour just for fuel (and Wolverhampton's fuel ain't the cheapest in the UK).
My mate just sold his R44 Raven II and did some sums recently. Because Frank has insisted on so many mandatory things above and beyond the original maintenance schedule in years gone by it has cost more to run than expected. In fact it's cost him over £600 an hour (wet).
So in his aircraft a 10minute flight would be £100 for the aircraft alone.
Lets add an Instructor, premises, website, admin staff, landing fees, hangarage, advertising, telephone, stationary, annual business costs...
Then there is the all important profit!
(from Small Business - Chron.com)
Retail Clothing Industry Profit Margins
The retail clothing industry had an average gross profit margin of 48.46 percent in 2009 according to Butler Consultants. However, by the time you add up all the expenses involved in operating retail clothing stores, the average net profit margin is only 7.98 percent. If your expenses are typical, then around 7 to 12 percent net profit would be a reasonable goal.
Equipment Manufacturing Industry Profit Margins
Butler Consultants lists the gross profit margin of the equipment manufacturing industry as 31.98 percent in 2009. The net profit margin only works out to 6.81 percent, largely due to the significant capital expenses in this industry. Unless your expenses are much less than your competitors, you want to aim for at least 6 percent and perhaps up to 9 or 10 percent net profit for your equipment manufacturing business.
Telecommunications Industry Profit Margins
Gross profit margins averaged 86.51 percent for the telecommunications industry in 2010. While that seems like a healthy profit margin, overhead is very high in the telecommunications industry and the average net profit margin is only 10.99 percent. Assuming industry-average expenses, a reasonable profit margin would be anything between 10 and 15 percent.
Retail Electronics Industry Profit Margins
The average gross profit margin in the retail electronics industry come in on the mid to low side at 30.76 percent, but like all retail businesses, labor expenses are relatively high and the average net profit in the industry is only 4.68 percent. A net profit in the range of 5 to 8 percent would be reasonable for a retail electronics store.
Economy of Scale
Another important factor in determining a reasonable profit is the economy of scale of the business. A huge business like Walmart, for example, can afford a net profit of just a few percent on most items because of the volume of sales, but a local florist with a small sales volume needs to make profit margin several times that just to pay her bills and make a decent profit.
Great Business Model.
If it's too good to be true IT GENERALLY IS.
Highly unethical IMO (I won't pretend to have a humble one).
Lets hope some of these people actually DO get their CPL(H) whether that's through Senior Aviation or by working hard, saving, scrimping, paying bit by bit or raiding daddy's piggy bank.
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Rip
Think you should report them to oft and watchdog bbc
https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact
https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact
Join Date: May 2011
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I don't think an R44 was used though. They do their flight training and assessments in the R22, which is a lot cheaper to operate. Still, £290 for 10 mins in an R22 is outrageously expensive.
For about £100 or so LESS money, those people could have had a bonafide 30-minute trial lesson at any helicopter school in the country.
What they have been made to do instead is pay the best part of £300 for a 10-min flight under the pretense of a job interview selection process.
I'm guessing that they have been suffering in the recession like everybody else and students have been thin on the ground in recent years and I can only imagine how they rubbed their hands with glee when they dreamt this up.
Dozens of other flight schools could have done something similar to prop up their businesses during the recession, but didn't. What does this suggest?
And it's highly unlikely that these wannabee pilots handing over £290 for a ten-minute jolly will even know about pprune, so this will carry on happening.
For about £100 or so LESS money, those people could have had a bonafide 30-minute trial lesson at any helicopter school in the country.
What they have been made to do instead is pay the best part of £300 for a 10-min flight under the pretense of a job interview selection process.
I'm guessing that they have been suffering in the recession like everybody else and students have been thin on the ground in recent years and I can only imagine how they rubbed their hands with glee when they dreamt this up.
Dozens of other flight schools could have done something similar to prop up their businesses during the recession, but didn't. What does this suggest?
And it's highly unlikely that these wannabee pilots handing over £290 for a ten-minute jolly will even know about pprune, so this will carry on happening.
Last edited by robinsonFlyer; 7th Oct 2013 at 11:16.
First of all I don't agree with what is going on and I believe that this is a practise praying on the young, naive ..
Prey, verb: to victimise, attack or swindle another.
Well, it is Sunday!
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Having commented on previous "innovative" schemes jerrysenior seems to have come up with, it comes as no surprise to me that this one looks extremely dubious.
Get a gullible reporter to write a good news story, big yourself up, throw out a lure and then hope everyone bites. [Sound almost like a bloke who was going to fly firefighters to incidents for free!]
I feel some sympathy for the patsy who's been offered the first "apprenticeship". He must be beginning to wonder what he's got himself into. Of course, it could turn out he's the son of a mate of Jerry's.
Let's hope the press put a proper investigative journalist on to this so that the public can get to read the true story.
Get a gullible reporter to write a good news story, big yourself up, throw out a lure and then hope everyone bites. [Sound almost like a bloke who was going to fly firefighters to incidents for free!]
I feel some sympathy for the patsy who's been offered the first "apprenticeship". He must be beginning to wonder what he's got himself into. Of course, it could turn out he's the son of a mate of Jerry's.
Let's hope the press put a proper investigative journalist on to this so that the public can get to read the true story.
Savoia - I pray you weren't preying on me with that coment
Robinsonflyer - £100 for 30minutes in an r22 is extremely cheap - which school offers that?
I was under the impression senioraviation were operating an r44 gchap?
Robinsonflyer - £100 for 30minutes in an r22 is extremely cheap - which school offers that?
I was under the impression senioraviation were operating an r44 gchap?
Join Date: May 2011
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Sorry for any confusion misterbonkers, I said for £100 or so less money, people can have a 30-min trial lesson... I meant £100 or so less than the £290 being charged for their 10-minute flight!
I've seen half hour trial lessons being offered anywhere from £170 to £200, depending on the school. My first lesson was in 1996 and cost £145 from Argos, for a half hour trial lesson gift voucher!
And I don't think this can be compared to buying a product at wholesale at £A and selling it retail at £B... this is completely different altogether.
This is about a scheme to get wannabee pilots in the door for a fake interview, telling them all that they're in the top 10 and asking them to part with £290 for a 10-minute 'assessment flight', followed by an email saying "you didn't get the job".
I've seen half hour trial lessons being offered anywhere from £170 to £200, depending on the school. My first lesson was in 1996 and cost £145 from Argos, for a half hour trial lesson gift voucher!
And I don't think this can be compared to buying a product at wholesale at £A and selling it retail at £B... this is completely different altogether.
This is about a scheme to get wannabee pilots in the door for a fake interview, telling them all that they're in the top 10 and asking them to part with £290 for a 10-minute 'assessment flight', followed by an email saying "you didn't get the job".
Last edited by robinsonFlyer; 7th Oct 2013 at 14:09. Reason: typo
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They're advertising everywhere 
Trainee Helicopter pilot (Wolverhampton) | Career-Jobs.co.uk
I've even seen it on the government jobcentre site. Can't find the link right now but anyone who has evidence should seriously report them.
SD
Trainee Helicopter pilot (Wolverhampton) | Career-Jobs.co.uk
I've even seen it on the government jobcentre site. Can't find the link right now but anyone who has evidence should seriously report them.
SD