Senior Aviation/Austin Aviation
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selling training flights
its no different to red letters days,adventure 001,into the blue and all the rest.
The student charges £10.00 more per flight so the school gets the same amount they always charge wish I could say the same for red letter days and the rest which normally eat into your money for getting you the business but everyones ok with them.
Remember the student and school should work together with this to help both parties they are spending tens of thousands.
But if the schools not happy doing it for them the students can sell them for our school so either way we don't see a problem with that, the money goes to the schools anyway.
jerry senior.
The student charges £10.00 more per flight so the school gets the same amount they always charge wish I could say the same for red letter days and the rest which normally eat into your money for getting you the business but everyones ok with them.
Remember the student and school should work together with this to help both parties they are spending tens of thousands.
But if the schools not happy doing it for them the students can sell them for our school so either way we don't see a problem with that, the money goes to the schools anyway.
jerry senior.
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DIY
A lot more goes into this and takes the headache that is vat away and setting it all up for the student, banks, e website, vat and much more that's why we put it together as a package to help.
Jerry senior
Jerry senior
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Sorry Jerry, you're wrong. It is totally different from the voucher pimps.
Your scheme members are very unlikely to be sending tens of thousands of emails a day with a wide variety of offers. They will not have a helpdesk full of staff and high quality presentation packs to send the customer.
They are going to be parasites feeding off of the product offerings the school has developed over time. Unless they increase the marketplace they are just competing for the same customers.
Also, I'd be careful when implying that most helicopter companies are "OK" with the voucher pimps. In an ideal world I expect most helicopter businesses owners would like to see them fail spectacularly! I know I would!
Your scheme members are very unlikely to be sending tens of thousands of emails a day with a wide variety of offers. They will not have a helpdesk full of staff and high quality presentation packs to send the customer.
They are going to be parasites feeding off of the product offerings the school has developed over time. Unless they increase the marketplace they are just competing for the same customers.
Also, I'd be careful when implying that most helicopter companies are "OK" with the voucher pimps. In an ideal world I expect most helicopter businesses owners would like to see them fail spectacularly! I know I would!
Last edited by firebird_uk; 21st May 2013 at 16:26. Reason: Inappropriate Apostrophe usage.
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The only way you will stop adventure, red and all the others is to all refuse to do the flights but I don't think thats going to happen anytime soon but I know how you feel about that.
Its not the students goal to make loads of money off online sales because it doesn't happen and the students know this.
the goal for them is to save the vat and tax get the qualifications and get a job.
Its not the students goal to make loads of money off online sales because it doesn't happen and the students know this.
the goal for them is to save the vat and tax get the qualifications and get a job.
Pitts - Surely paying someone to sell you business you would/could/should have won yourself is competition in anyone's books?
To make it worse, unlike "voucher pimps" such as Groupon et al, your student is unlikely to be engaged in outbound business generation - they're just going to be competing for those customers Googling "cheap helicopter flight".
To make it worse, unlike "voucher pimps" such as Groupon et al, your student is unlikely to be engaged in outbound business generation - they're just going to be competing for those customers Googling "cheap helicopter flight".
Its a nice idea tbh although I'm not sure why anyone needs to pay so much for it. An off the shelf company is a few hundred quid and registering for VAT is free, as is getting a bank account etc.
As for the commercials of people googling cheap helicopter flights, etc,etc really when you look at the sites that you refer to I'm not sure how operators loose out when hour helicopter flights in R44's set the punts back £350 each....
If I was an operator I'd gladly pay £10 for every one of those referrals...
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vat and tax
like I said before a lot of work goes into this get it wrong and you can kiss your vat number and tax goodbye 
also you claim back 20% vat and 20% tax on the franchise cost so its not much based on all the work we do.
also you claim back 20% vat and 20% tax on the franchise cost so its not much based on all the work we do.
Last edited by jerrysenior; 22nd May 2013 at 21:31.
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Pitts - If I was an operator I'd gladly pay £10 for every one of those referrals...
From what I can see, the franchisee will bill the customer and have to pay whatever service charge for the on-line transaction. They then have a contract to deliver the flight.
If the franchisee then tells the customer that they're not delivering the flight, so please call school X, I would expect the customer to be a bit
'd off. If they're smart, they'll cancel the sale under the distance selling regulations and book directly with the organ grinder.Let's not even consider the undoubted complications of scheduling, Wx cancellations, changing customer requirements etc etc. Is the franchisee really going to be set up to cope with that? Telling the customer to contact school X after you've paid over your money is just not good enough.
You might say "well that's what the voucher pimps do", but that is not the case either. These organisations have excelled in their relationships with customers to a point where many organisations across many sectors are dependent on their "do it for cost" handouts in order to keep fresh faces coming through the door.
Jerry, perhaps you could elaborate on the sales cycle or point us to a franchisee website?
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office
If you would like to visit me at our offices I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you may have or if you have a flight school I'd be happy to visit and go over any details.
Jerrysenior
Jerrysenior
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I've just come through a horrific time after an audit from HMRC with my current business (non-aviation related). Don't mess with them! I made a bad choice of accountant and they made things messy.
HMRC can charge up to £5K every time they look at something they're not happy with. They kept asking why my profits were so low in January compared to the rest of the year. My industry shuts down in January but they wouldn't accept that as an answer and kept trying to dig deeper. I ended up with £15K of charges because of that. I hadn't actually done anything wrong other than was late with payments. It's not worth messing with them.
Give them their 20% and give it on time!!!
HMRC can charge up to £5K every time they look at something they're not happy with. They kept asking why my profits were so low in January compared to the rest of the year. My industry shuts down in January but they wouldn't accept that as an answer and kept trying to dig deeper. I ended up with £15K of charges because of that. I hadn't actually done anything wrong other than was late with payments. It's not worth messing with them.
Give them their 20% and give it on time!!!
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A few years go, I had issues with HMRC and useless accountants.
I came under audit, and the accountants I used had a few pilots on their books. So I made the (wrong) assumption that they were fully capable of providing the services I was to be paying them for.
Turns out my accountants were claiming things for me that were not supposed to be claimed for. HMRC had an argument that you can't claim for a new qualification, just an extension / addition of a licence / qualification that you already have. The accountants shrugged their shoulders and said I have to pay it back.
When I asked how'd that happen, I pay you as the experts, to assist and get the information correct. They said a new case law had passed and I sign to confirm, so therefore responsibility lies with. Ok, thanks, money well spent!
Little faith in accountants, less in HMRC.
It is a good way of saving some money, but anyone considering it, make sure you get a good accountant, or at least know what you are entitled to as it can come back on you, and they won't just stop at that years audit, they will go back.
I came under audit, and the accountants I used had a few pilots on their books. So I made the (wrong) assumption that they were fully capable of providing the services I was to be paying them for.
Turns out my accountants were claiming things for me that were not supposed to be claimed for. HMRC had an argument that you can't claim for a new qualification, just an extension / addition of a licence / qualification that you already have. The accountants shrugged their shoulders and said I have to pay it back.
When I asked how'd that happen, I pay you as the experts, to assist and get the information correct. They said a new case law had passed and I sign to confirm, so therefore responsibility lies with. Ok, thanks, money well spent!
Little faith in accountants, less in HMRC.
It is a good way of saving some money, but anyone considering it, make sure you get a good accountant, or at least know what you are entitled to as it can come back on you, and they won't just stop at that years audit, they will go back.
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Trainee helicopter pilot interview
Hi there,
This is the first time I am posting a thread here. I am in need of some advice about what I need to know about helicopters for an Interview on Tuesday next week in Wolverhampton (West Midlands, UK) with "Senior Helicopters".
I have always wanted to be a professional airline pilot, however, I came across a job advertisement which I took an interest in and decided to apply for.
I don't know much about helicopters, but I would like to give myself the best chances of getting on to the training programme.
Does anyone here know what kind of questions they will ask?
Or, what I need to know beforehand.
Can I take printouts of information with me? To show I have done some research etc?
What do I need to talk about show an interest? etc?
I would appreciate every help/advice I can get from any of you.
thank you
Mohammed
This is the first time I am posting a thread here. I am in need of some advice about what I need to know about helicopters for an Interview on Tuesday next week in Wolverhampton (West Midlands, UK) with "Senior Helicopters".
I have always wanted to be a professional airline pilot, however, I came across a job advertisement which I took an interest in and decided to apply for.
I don't know much about helicopters, but I would like to give myself the best chances of getting on to the training programme.
Does anyone here know what kind of questions they will ask?
Or, what I need to know beforehand.
Can I take printouts of information with me? To show I have done some research etc?
What do I need to talk about show an interest? etc?
I would appreciate every help/advice I can get from any of you.
thank you
Mohammed
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hey
Hey Bobby,
Yes, I attended an interview, I was successful..
I am now supposedly one of 10 (out of 200 applicants) who will take a 2-3 hour flight test in the coming week or two.
However, I want to know whether this is a con or not.. it just seems too good to be true.
for them to pay 70,000 for the training, to give 250 pounds per week on top of that, to also pay for the medical at Gatwick airport, but to ask me to pay 290 pounds for the flight test. Which I have now paid for..
Which is worrying me, as people are telling me its too good to be true, and that it seems too undercover as they don't have their own training facility as I was told by the interviewer that if successful at the test flight, as they pick the best two from the 10 who will take the test flight, that I will be relocated to a closer airport to me (which would be Coventry).
As well as this, after completing the three year training, doing home study at home whilst training, they will employ the two pilots and still pay wages on top of the 250 pounds per week even once training has been completed.
Seems too good to be true..
Also, I have asked someone and he says that he has been asked about this outfit before and that it seems like a con to him and others think the same.
any advice?
Mohammed
Yes, I attended an interview, I was successful..
I am now supposedly one of 10 (out of 200 applicants) who will take a 2-3 hour flight test in the coming week or two.
However, I want to know whether this is a con or not.. it just seems too good to be true.
for them to pay 70,000 for the training, to give 250 pounds per week on top of that, to also pay for the medical at Gatwick airport, but to ask me to pay 290 pounds for the flight test. Which I have now paid for..
Which is worrying me, as people are telling me its too good to be true, and that it seems too undercover as they don't have their own training facility as I was told by the interviewer that if successful at the test flight, as they pick the best two from the 10 who will take the test flight, that I will be relocated to a closer airport to me (which would be Coventry).
As well as this, after completing the three year training, doing home study at home whilst training, they will employ the two pilots and still pay wages on top of the 250 pounds per week even once training has been completed.
Seems too good to be true..
Also, I have asked someone and he says that he has been asked about this outfit before and that it seems like a con to him and others think the same.
any advice?
Mohammed
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Advice? You think it is too good to be true and you may be right. I don't know, but it certainly does sound strange when there are lots and lots of already qualified pilots currently looking for work.
My advice would be to not give them any more money until you understand it better and are confident that it is NOT too good to be true. Ask a lot of questions during/after the flight test. And do let us know how you get on!
My advice would be to not give them any more money until you understand it better and are confident that it is NOT too good to be true. Ask a lot of questions during/after the flight test. And do let us know how you get on!
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Well, my test flight is on Monday 7th October at 11.30am.. I will ask a friend or family member to come with me just incase..
Are there any questions in particular that you reckon I should ask?
At the interview I was given a copy of a newspaper article.. here's the link..
Lift-off for Dudley teenager with dream job as a helicopter pilot « Express & Star
I don't know whether I should take this with a pinch of salt or not.. it is a legitimate newspaper.. but the training that this young lad is supposedly undertaking is only 12months long and not three years long..
Mohammed
Are there any questions in particular that you reckon I should ask?
At the interview I was given a copy of a newspaper article.. here's the link..
Lift-off for Dudley teenager with dream job as a helicopter pilot « Express & Star
I don't know whether I should take this with a pinch of salt or not.. it is a legitimate newspaper.. but the training that this young lad is supposedly undertaking is only 12months long and not three years long..
Mohammed
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Hi Mohammed,
If you get to spend 2-3 hours flying then your £290 will have been well spent as at £100/hr it may be some of the cheapest training you'll ever do (should you go on to pay for a licence from your own pocket).
If what you get is 2.5hrs of ground tuition and a half hour flight then you've probably been scammed and it would be interesting to see what made you one of the 1-in-20 (other than the fact that you paid up).
I'm sure we'll all be interested to hear how Monday goes!
FB
If you get to spend 2-3 hours flying then your £290 will have been well spent as at £100/hr it may be some of the cheapest training you'll ever do (should you go on to pay for a licence from your own pocket).
If what you get is 2.5hrs of ground tuition and a half hour flight then you've probably been scammed and it would be interesting to see what made you one of the 1-in-20 (other than the fact that you paid up).
I'm sure we'll all be interested to hear how Monday goes!
FB
If you're feeling brave enough, I would ask them how they are going to fund the training. Are you going to be financially bonded for the cost of training in any way? And what sort of job security can they offer in the future?
I would also ask about the split between any potential flying duties and any ground duties, particularly if those ground 'duties' involve valeting aircraft.
(Also, Mohammed, please be aware that the owner of the company, Jerry Senior, reads this site and will undoubtedly be reading this thread).
I would also ask about the split between any potential flying duties and any ground duties, particularly if those ground 'duties' involve valeting aircraft.
(Also, Mohammed, please be aware that the owner of the company, Jerry Senior, reads this site and will undoubtedly be reading this thread).
It looks like you might well have been conned. Your £290 might only get you 10 minutes flying:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...31820176834862
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Austin Aviation is genuine TRTO organisation and we have only done what we do, which is teach ppl to fly helicopters