Nimrod MRA.4
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How does one forward a link to this thread to the PM? And would it help?
Dear Prime Minister,
On behalf of the military ppruners I wish to express my disappointment at the so-called Defence Review.
You clearly do not understand the concepts of defence yourself and you also do not comprehend that your advisors are similarly limited. Specifically, the Very Senior Officers of the military have all transformed from the junior fun loving pissheads they once were, into a self-interested collection of greedy public servants who cannot see beyond their inflated pensions and their future jobs in the defence industry. The bosses of said industry are only interested in the massive wages, expense accounts and need to strip every last penny from the tax payer without the tiresome burden of having to supply weapons or things that actually work. Your academic advisors (like academics in all walks of life) live on planet Zanussi and spend their tenured lives bullying students and writing incomprehensible nonsense in journals that nobody reads (unless they want to start a war).
On the other hand, we on pprune are a collective bunch of losers, old fat guys and misogynistic outcasts who spend all our time on line tabbing between our beloved aviation website and www. fat houswives dot com. As such we should be advising you and therefore please cancel all your cancellations and await further instructions.
Yours Aye
The Old Fat One
His reply, received today reads
Dear Old Fat Guy
I read Pprune all the time because I like aeroplanes and other shiney toys. A year ago you were all slagging off the one-eyed jock and couldn't wait to vote me in...bet you feel stupid now (LOL).
I am the Prime Minister for the next five years. It's my train set now...get over it.
Regards
Dave
PS More than five years, given the opposition have just handed power to an unelectable alien life form.
PPS Some dude called Nick, thinks he is some part of this (LOL). He is clearly not playing with the full deck, maybe he could join your website?
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His reply, received today reads
Dear Old Fat Guy
Dear Old Fat Guy
Dear Tofo,
We had a family meeting to discuss your communication and the following was put forward for consideration:
Our newly arrived Cornish daughter agreed that ISK should close and proposed re-opening St. Mawgan with two Shackelton Mk1 Squadrons.
Yours in awe,
Call me Dave
PS Samantha would like to thank you all for the frequent warm mentions she receives on the MRA4 thread.
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Well all of the sub-contractors have been finished this morning and at least one major IT system used for communication between RAF and BAE is being shut down in the next few days.
Its the beginning of the end!
PotP
Its the beginning of the end!
PotP
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the workshop, Prune-whispering.
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I've just found out why the 'Cousins' are really up north!
Apparently, they've started a covert takeover of the UK.
I've got this from a French friend of mine who's offered to
start an 'Underground' for us. Expect their para's sometime next week.
Apparently, they've started a covert takeover of the UK.
I've got this from a French friend of mine who's offered to
start an 'Underground' for us. Expect their para's sometime next week.
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I cant explain why we have to box everything up over the last 2 years and put it into storage , does not make sense when they have closed the MRA4 sim this week and said thats it boys.
Maybe the secret move to Waddington is still on ..... oppppsec
Maybe the secret move to Waddington is still on ..... oppppsec
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Maybe it's just me.......
iRaven, I am glad that you feel sufficiently confident in your own future career prospects to be able to post such a childish and immature response. The cancellation of MRA4 not only signifies the untimely end of the last large aircraft ever to be built in this country, it also represents the shattered hopes and dreams of thousands of individuals and will have a distressing impact on whole communities, not just here in Moray.
To have had 70 years of RAF Maritime Air contribution to the defence of the UK and its interests worldwide so roundly dismissed in a 23 second statement to the House showed a total disregard for the efforts of the present incumbents and a complete disdain for our predecessors.
The contribution by MPA Nimrods in many dozens of sorties, over the last 20 years alone, that resulted in some unpleasant individuals being convicted has more than paid for any so called savings that binning MRA4 and closing Kinloss might achieve.
The cost of the illegal drug trade (in terms of its effects on society) are estimated (by the Government) to be in the region of £11-12Bn per year. In order to pay for itself, Kinloss and the MRA4 fleet would have had to prevent something in the region of 2% of the trade reaching the streets. I did 2 sorties in the same year back in the mid 90's. Different ops, both resulting in seizure and conviction. The estimated street value, even back then, of those 2 hauls was £650Mil +. Those 2 sorties were just 2 of at least a dozen successes that year.
This was just a small (but rewarding and important) part of life on a maritime sqn and maritime station. The Government have decided that 30 years of hard won experience and excellence (RAF MPA crews were very highly regarded by all of our allies and many of our not so friendly adversaries) is no longer needed or can be achieved by other means (although they struggle to explain how exactly). It was widely acknowledged that Nimrod crews were certainly in the top 3 nations as far as ASW was concerned. But the utility of the crews did not stop there.
Not content with being amongst the best in the world at ASW, we went out to make ourselves the best in the world at ASuW, pretty damn good at SAR, pretty damn good at overland roles etc etc etc.
If assets such as these hard-working, proud and professional people, who were within spitting distance of getting a new aircraft, can be dumped along with the platform, without so much as a 'Thank You for all your efforts', then I would suggest that your blinding confidence in your own security is somewhat misplaced.
To have had 70 years of RAF Maritime Air contribution to the defence of the UK and its interests worldwide so roundly dismissed in a 23 second statement to the House showed a total disregard for the efforts of the present incumbents and a complete disdain for our predecessors.
The contribution by MPA Nimrods in many dozens of sorties, over the last 20 years alone, that resulted in some unpleasant individuals being convicted has more than paid for any so called savings that binning MRA4 and closing Kinloss might achieve.
The cost of the illegal drug trade (in terms of its effects on society) are estimated (by the Government) to be in the region of £11-12Bn per year. In order to pay for itself, Kinloss and the MRA4 fleet would have had to prevent something in the region of 2% of the trade reaching the streets. I did 2 sorties in the same year back in the mid 90's. Different ops, both resulting in seizure and conviction. The estimated street value, even back then, of those 2 hauls was £650Mil +. Those 2 sorties were just 2 of at least a dozen successes that year.
This was just a small (but rewarding and important) part of life on a maritime sqn and maritime station. The Government have decided that 30 years of hard won experience and excellence (RAF MPA crews were very highly regarded by all of our allies and many of our not so friendly adversaries) is no longer needed or can be achieved by other means (although they struggle to explain how exactly). It was widely acknowledged that Nimrod crews were certainly in the top 3 nations as far as ASW was concerned. But the utility of the crews did not stop there.
Not content with being amongst the best in the world at ASW, we went out to make ourselves the best in the world at ASuW, pretty damn good at SAR, pretty damn good at overland roles etc etc etc.
If assets such as these hard-working, proud and professional people, who were within spitting distance of getting a new aircraft, can be dumped along with the platform, without so much as a 'Thank You for all your efforts', then I would suggest that your blinding confidence in your own security is somewhat misplaced.
Last edited by ShortFatOne; 24th Nov 2010 at 22:56. Reason: Getting ahead of myself.
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Re last 3 posts......
Sorry iraven, but really, another silly picture in response to a very reasoned and well argued point does you no service.
You obviously disagree with SFOs position - so argue it, debate it, make your point. I would certainly be interested in reading your views and hearing why you seem to believe that abandoning an MPA fleet is a sensible move for our island nation.....etc etc. It has all, I think, been said on this thread over and over before.
.......and before it gets personal, I am an ex member of the Nimrod fleet, but have moved on (and far away) and am genuinely after a measured response - not a tit for tat spat.
Regards.
You obviously disagree with SFOs position - so argue it, debate it, make your point. I would certainly be interested in reading your views and hearing why you seem to believe that abandoning an MPA fleet is a sensible move for our island nation.....etc etc. It has all, I think, been said on this thread over and over before.
.......and before it gets personal, I am an ex member of the Nimrod fleet, but have moved on (and far away) and am genuinely after a measured response - not a tit for tat spat.
Regards.
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Unfortunately, this (and previous) Governments are proving themselves to be the absolute masters of knowing the cost of everything, but never really understanding the value; they can read a balance sheet, but never get the true balance of the operations (highlighted by the comments of SFO and others above) that the likes of MPA gave this nation. The people who made this decision either don't understand, or do understand but have decided that something is more important, or don't care; either way it is being poorly communicated.
Many of us will feel the effect of this decision in some way; I'm ex-Army and the nearest I ever got to one was when I got arrested for wandering to close to one with lots of funny appendages, but even I recognise that you cannot discard however many years of expertise without some consequence. I really hope this does not come to bite us in the back-end.
Respect.
Many of us will feel the effect of this decision in some way; I'm ex-Army and the nearest I ever got to one was when I got arrested for wandering to close to one with lots of funny appendages, but even I recognise that you cannot discard however many years of expertise without some consequence. I really hope this does not come to bite us in the back-end.
Respect.
Firstly, the razor blades banter was exactly that - a tongue in cheek reply to a somewhat daft question (IMHO).
The second pic is more aircrew banter in reply to an emotional retort (somewhat mawkish, again IMHO).
On the subject of opinion, here is mine that has been asked for:
1. Yes, in a perfect world MRA4 would still be swallowing EP money as it staggered towards IOC. Yes, I believe that we need an MPA capability, but we simply can't afford the BWoS pricetag now and for years to come - the decision to go with them was a mistake we have made before (think Tornado F2, Typhoon, Harrier GR5, Phoenix UAV, botched legacy aircraft safety cases and I think you get the picture of cost over runs and/or non-delivery of required capability).
2. There are still stories to come on the Safety Case and the myriad of problems being worked through right up to cancellation.
3. Yes, its bad that so many have lost their beloved role - but, hey, they're hardly alone. The country has just averted credit rating disaster and we can thank MRA4 for contributing to the debt and now for being a small-part saviour through cancellation. Accross the country there are lots of others facing redundancy - although I believe that a large amount at KIS will be offered posts if they are willing to move, re-branch or re-muster. I know that a lot have houses in the locale that are now in negative equity - well I don't live in KSS and bought my pad in 2007, so I'm also in the negative equity club with a posting away from the area inside 12 months. Also, redundancy payments are far more generous than others facing the axe by the Govt.
4. I suspect CAS was left with a choice (that became parochial between Services in the end). MPA is not core Air Power business and if the RN and CT organisations want it then they will have to pay for it. Same decision for SAR helicopters was made as it was for the Land-centric Sentinel and SH fleet.
Am I saddened by the loss of MPA? Yes, but I also realise that we can't afford it and with force reductions to 31,000 something has to give (and I suspect there will be more in PR11+, so no, I don't feel job secure).
Sorry if the above jumps around a bit, but I've typed it on a smart phone.
Lastly, FFS buck up on the banter! You only live once!
iRaven
The second pic is more aircrew banter in reply to an emotional retort (somewhat mawkish, again IMHO).
On the subject of opinion, here is mine that has been asked for:
1. Yes, in a perfect world MRA4 would still be swallowing EP money as it staggered towards IOC. Yes, I believe that we need an MPA capability, but we simply can't afford the BWoS pricetag now and for years to come - the decision to go with them was a mistake we have made before (think Tornado F2, Typhoon, Harrier GR5, Phoenix UAV, botched legacy aircraft safety cases and I think you get the picture of cost over runs and/or non-delivery of required capability).
2. There are still stories to come on the Safety Case and the myriad of problems being worked through right up to cancellation.
3. Yes, its bad that so many have lost their beloved role - but, hey, they're hardly alone. The country has just averted credit rating disaster and we can thank MRA4 for contributing to the debt and now for being a small-part saviour through cancellation. Accross the country there are lots of others facing redundancy - although I believe that a large amount at KIS will be offered posts if they are willing to move, re-branch or re-muster. I know that a lot have houses in the locale that are now in negative equity - well I don't live in KSS and bought my pad in 2007, so I'm also in the negative equity club with a posting away from the area inside 12 months. Also, redundancy payments are far more generous than others facing the axe by the Govt.
4. I suspect CAS was left with a choice (that became parochial between Services in the end). MPA is not core Air Power business and if the RN and CT organisations want it then they will have to pay for it. Same decision for SAR helicopters was made as it was for the Land-centric Sentinel and SH fleet.
Am I saddened by the loss of MPA? Yes, but I also realise that we can't afford it and with force reductions to 31,000 something has to give (and I suspect there will be more in PR11+, so no, I don't feel job secure).
Sorry if the above jumps around a bit, but I've typed it on a smart phone.
Lastly, FFS buck up on the banter! You only live once!
iRaven
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iRaven,
Some of the folks up here are - understandably, I think - a bit tender at the moment. Do go easy on them it they don't get your banter first time.
Duncs
Some of the folks up here are - understandably, I think - a bit tender at the moment. Do go easy on them it they don't get your banter first time.
Duncs
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Closures and Cancellations
Closures and cancellations are a fact of life. When Maggie Thatcher decimated the coal industry, she destroyed the way of life and employemt oppertunities of several towns and villages thoughout, Wales, Scotland and England. The people affected by her decision had to a pick up the pieces and build new lives. The same applies now to those affected by the cancellation of the Nimrod Mk4. Take it on the chin and move on.
DV
DV
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When Maggie Thatcher decimated the coal industry, she destroyed the way of life and employemt oppertunities of several towns and villages thoughout, Wales, Scotland and England. The people affected by her decision had to a pick up the pieces and build new lives.
You are Norman Tebbit AICMFP's.