If you're considering EK take the time for a read:
Mr Striker - when you grow up a bit, you'll look back and cringe at what you've written here. Especially if you achieve your dream of enslavement. There are plenty of guys who have left but choose to say nothing or very little here, because they've let go of the Middle East, and embraced civilization. Good luck.
It's difficult to know where to start with Striker 26 -the ignorance / stupidity is breathtaking - I'll leave the detail to others...
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hahah so Striker is saying he's built a false profile...so he can portray himself as a complete loser? Interesting way to spend time, but everyone needs a hobby I guess.
I don't think it's sand he's got his head firmly into.
Striker, since you claim your info isn't real, could you at least then change your "fake" identity to something other than Canadian? You're giving your countrymen a bad name.
Face it, it's transparently obvious you're just a kid from TO who'll never make it as an expat or as a pilot. Hopefully winding people up on an internet forum helps to compensate you for that in some way lol.
Even EK with their new rock-bottom standards wouldn't touch you. Ouch.
You are the perfect candidate - you ignore those who have thousands of hours of experience (I'm in >10,000 hr range) and put your head firmly in the sand.
Striker, since you claim your info isn't real, could you at least then change your "fake" identity to something other than Canadian? You're giving your countrymen a bad name.
Face it, it's transparently obvious you're just a kid from TO who'll never make it as an expat or as a pilot. Hopefully winding people up on an internet forum helps to compensate you for that in some way lol.
Even EK with their new rock-bottom standards wouldn't touch you. Ouch.
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NO...He is just an idiot...whatever his perceived identity is...maybe mommy can help him.
I just found out who he really is, its just not worth the keystokes.
Block him...
This message is hidden because striker26 is on your ignore list.
Saved from ignorance
I just found out who he really is, its just not worth the keystokes.
Block him...
This message is hidden because striker26 is on your ignore list.
Saved from ignorance
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Striker26 is a genius ! Please sprinkle some of your stardust on those of us not wise or worldly enough to compare with your experience. What was it like to be born with wings ? Why are you not in EK management ? Or are you already on the payroll ? What flavour is the kool aid ? The rest of us pilots could really learn a thing or two from you. Or maybe not.
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Back on topic, that's one of the best things I've read here in ages keepitreal. I felt exactly the same after I left QR, I didn't realize how much of a zombie I was until a couple weeks after I left.
The subtle high-level mental stuff like your imagination, coming up with new games for the kids, enjoying reading a book, your basic attention span etc, when you're in the system it's all gone under the perpetual cotton wool of fatigue and you don't even realize what you're missing.
We only have 80ish years to spend on this earth, the question is how many of them are you going to spend in that horrible mental state and that horrible working environment?
The subtle high-level mental stuff like your imagination, coming up with new games for the kids, enjoying reading a book, your basic attention span etc, when you're in the system it's all gone under the perpetual cotton wool of fatigue and you don't even realize what you're missing.
We only have 80ish years to spend on this earth, the question is how many of them are you going to spend in that horrible mental state and that horrible working environment?
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...and that horrible working environment.
Well Luke, I did have to laugh at that. I assume you mean environment as in 'Company Culture', rather than the actual environment you spend time in, right? Air conditioned, short sleeve shirts with food and drinks on demand, controlled rest (needed... grant you that), best views in the World and then 24-48 hours at nice hotels with clean bedding, room service and happy ending massages in BKK.
Because if you didn't mean that, if you think you have it bad, I wonder how at least 95% of the World feels about "horrible working environments'.
Personally, in my entire time within aviation, I go to work, do the job professionally (still with pride and enthusiasm) then come home and enjoy as much quality time with friends and family as I can manage. I have very little contact with management, I don't bother them and they return the favour. The day I stop enjoying it or when I can earn the same or more money for less work and stress..... is the day I leave.
You obviously did that with QR. Well done. I hope it's worked out well for you.
Harry
Well Luke, I did have to laugh at that. I assume you mean environment as in 'Company Culture', rather than the actual environment you spend time in, right? Air conditioned, short sleeve shirts with food and drinks on demand, controlled rest (needed... grant you that), best views in the World and then 24-48 hours at nice hotels with clean bedding, room service and happy ending massages in BKK.
Because if you didn't mean that, if you think you have it bad, I wonder how at least 95% of the World feels about "horrible working environments'.
Personally, in my entire time within aviation, I go to work, do the job professionally (still with pride and enthusiasm) then come home and enjoy as much quality time with friends and family as I can manage. I have very little contact with management, I don't bother them and they return the favour. The day I stop enjoying it or when I can earn the same or more money for less work and stress..... is the day I leave.
You obviously did that with QR. Well done. I hope it's worked out well for you.
Harry
Harry, what flavour koolaid is your personal favourite? Is it "desert delight?" or perhaps "essence of vaseline?" I might happen to make a guess and say "camel dung". In any case take your head out of your ar$e and have a look around, you might be surprised at what you find, or then again you might just take another sip of your chosen poison.
Potential EK recruits, let me be honest, at the moment EK is a toxic place to work at, its a combination of all the things previously described and a few more besides. We are all apart from Harry, working on our exit.
Potential EK recruits, let me be honest, at the moment EK is a toxic place to work at, its a combination of all the things previously described and a few more besides. We are all apart from Harry, working on our exit.
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Muttley,
I would have doubted you up until a few posts ago but since he has openly stated that he's not from Toronto...who really knows?
Makes you wonder why he would quit "the biz" to fly planes...now we know he's insane!
either way...i think you nailed it!
I would have doubted you up until a few posts ago but since he has openly stated that he's not from Toronto...who really knows?
Makes you wonder why he would quit "the biz" to fly planes...now we know he's insane!
either way...i think you nailed it!
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MM
"We are all apart from Harry, working on our exit"
Really? you speak for the entire workforce of 3850 pilots do you? Well, if you're personally that desperate to vacate flying, maybe I can help you speed up the job search. Ever thought of becoming a reporter for the Daily Mail? Sensationalism and inaccuracy are their forte.
For yourself, like others on these forums who love to spout the 'koolaid' rhetoric, perhaps a dose of 'reality smelling salts' is needed. Once a day to awake you from the constant bitching, moaning and negativity that pervades these forums and the flight deck like a cancer. Damn right things are not perfect here but let's have some perspective shall we. I wonder how your colleagues at Monarch would be feeling when they read posts such as yours since the take over by GreyBull, the Venture Capital Group;
1) Final salary pension wound up and incorporated into the Government Pension Protection Fund. All pension values reduced by 10% with a max payout capped around £27,000pa. (Senior Captains had been expecting £70k+in retirement). Some were less than a year from retirement, one was only 3 weeks away!
2) Removal of salary scales with only one fixed salary for F/O and one for Captain. Slight increase for Junior guys but big drop for the senior guys.
3) Removal of flight pay.
4) Further reduction in basic salary, splitting year into 4 week sections. This now makes it easy to explain why they only require pilots to work 11/13 of the year due to seasonal fluctuations and as a result, rather than not pay you for 2 'months', we'll merely reduce your basic further by 2/13.
5) Job losses and redundancies across the board, including pilots. Closing of some bases with associated redundancies. No moving costs if offered another base.
6) No more long haul, majority all turnarounds.
So, whilst you bitch and moan and invite me to remove my head from my arse and take a good look around, maybe you should stop and do exactly the same. Why not reflect what your former colleagues have had to endure, facing an unsure future, degraded terms and conditions as well as huge remuneration penalties. This is not some crappy fly by night outfit, it's the oldest surviving charter airline in the UK that retains it's original name. Its reputation for service, safety and training is highly regarded within the industry and has not suffered a single hull loss in over 45 years of operations. This Airline is not alone in fighting to stay alive. Just ask those in MAL how financially secure they currently feel.
And please, before Algonquin Crusader joins the fray, perhaps a quick history lesson in how Delta shafted it's pilots years ago when it stole their pensions to pay for a nice re branding of uniform and livery. That was after it emerged from that wonderful safety net called Chapter 11. Strangely, the CEO and other senior management still walked away with such insane payouts, it would make a banker blush! Pilots, as history has proved, have short memories. So, still feel like moaning? Fill you boots pal but don't expect any sympathy from me. Oh, and the best bit I've saved till last. Monarch's previous owners are in the World's top richest 500. They fiddled the books, blackmailed the UK government and then walked away from a £500+ million pension liability.
That must be one hell of a bitter pill to swallow each time your mates fly over Lake Geneva and look down at the owners' massive homes on the Lake and the mega yacht(s) moored up nearby. Maybe you should apply for a job on their yacht. I hear the weather's great this time of year!
Harry
"We are all apart from Harry, working on our exit"
Really? you speak for the entire workforce of 3850 pilots do you? Well, if you're personally that desperate to vacate flying, maybe I can help you speed up the job search. Ever thought of becoming a reporter for the Daily Mail? Sensationalism and inaccuracy are their forte.
For yourself, like others on these forums who love to spout the 'koolaid' rhetoric, perhaps a dose of 'reality smelling salts' is needed. Once a day to awake you from the constant bitching, moaning and negativity that pervades these forums and the flight deck like a cancer. Damn right things are not perfect here but let's have some perspective shall we. I wonder how your colleagues at Monarch would be feeling when they read posts such as yours since the take over by GreyBull, the Venture Capital Group;
1) Final salary pension wound up and incorporated into the Government Pension Protection Fund. All pension values reduced by 10% with a max payout capped around £27,000pa. (Senior Captains had been expecting £70k+in retirement). Some were less than a year from retirement, one was only 3 weeks away!
2) Removal of salary scales with only one fixed salary for F/O and one for Captain. Slight increase for Junior guys but big drop for the senior guys.
3) Removal of flight pay.
4) Further reduction in basic salary, splitting year into 4 week sections. This now makes it easy to explain why they only require pilots to work 11/13 of the year due to seasonal fluctuations and as a result, rather than not pay you for 2 'months', we'll merely reduce your basic further by 2/13.
5) Job losses and redundancies across the board, including pilots. Closing of some bases with associated redundancies. No moving costs if offered another base.
6) No more long haul, majority all turnarounds.
So, whilst you bitch and moan and invite me to remove my head from my arse and take a good look around, maybe you should stop and do exactly the same. Why not reflect what your former colleagues have had to endure, facing an unsure future, degraded terms and conditions as well as huge remuneration penalties. This is not some crappy fly by night outfit, it's the oldest surviving charter airline in the UK that retains it's original name. Its reputation for service, safety and training is highly regarded within the industry and has not suffered a single hull loss in over 45 years of operations. This Airline is not alone in fighting to stay alive. Just ask those in MAL how financially secure they currently feel.
And please, before Algonquin Crusader joins the fray, perhaps a quick history lesson in how Delta shafted it's pilots years ago when it stole their pensions to pay for a nice re branding of uniform and livery. That was after it emerged from that wonderful safety net called Chapter 11. Strangely, the CEO and other senior management still walked away with such insane payouts, it would make a banker blush! Pilots, as history has proved, have short memories. So, still feel like moaning? Fill you boots pal but don't expect any sympathy from me. Oh, and the best bit I've saved till last. Monarch's previous owners are in the World's top richest 500. They fiddled the books, blackmailed the UK government and then walked away from a £500+ million pension liability.
That must be one hell of a bitter pill to swallow each time your mates fly over Lake Geneva and look down at the owners' massive homes on the Lake and the mega yacht(s) moored up nearby. Maybe you should apply for a job on their yacht. I hear the weather's great this time of year!
Harry
Last edited by harry the cod; 19th Sep 2015 at 20:05.
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Harry, I've spent many years in Monarch, yes the wheels fell off there last year, yes like many others, I looked at DEC at EK but as stated by so many others, I decided I did not want to touch it with a barge pole. I very much appreciate my quality of life and that is something that is clearly no longer evident at all at EK.
Good grief Harry, the man doth protest! It's wonderful to have highlighted the plight of many whose number I was one of a good few years ago, but as Alloy said, it's as much about quality of life as it is about remuneration.
Oh and whilst we are using the word perspective I can reveal that what I use for perspective seems to be very similar to a great many with whom I fly with, that perspective is also evident amongst many many of our hard working colleagues beyond the flightdeck door and it is telling that this very perspective you speak of is, little by little finding its way into every aspect of the business. The perspective that you are alluding too also appears to be rubbing off on our customers who seem to be able to discern that the glossy images and clever marketing tactics aren't as good these days at making up for the effects of the perspective that describe so eloquently.
Perspective you see is a matter of perspective in the truest sense, give yourself a slap Harry and think about the perspective I speak of, or then again, take another sip of that favoured drink of yours.
Oh and whilst we are using the word perspective I can reveal that what I use for perspective seems to be very similar to a great many with whom I fly with, that perspective is also evident amongst many many of our hard working colleagues beyond the flightdeck door and it is telling that this very perspective you speak of is, little by little finding its way into every aspect of the business. The perspective that you are alluding too also appears to be rubbing off on our customers who seem to be able to discern that the glossy images and clever marketing tactics aren't as good these days at making up for the effects of the perspective that describe so eloquently.
Perspective you see is a matter of perspective in the truest sense, give yourself a slap Harry and think about the perspective I speak of, or then again, take another sip of that favoured drink of yours.
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Comparing wrongs
Harry
I understand that you are responding to a direct tease. But what kind of a point are you trying to make? That EK isn't bad because there are other bad places???
I am happy that the place works for you. It really didn't for me. Nor was it anything like what they promised in their presentations of rosters, leave etc. I believe that many guys find themselves in a position that they never signed up for.
Truth is that it is incredibly hard to get out of it. Even if there are other options you still need time off to get it all done. I had to find out the hard way that none of your rights as an employee are enforceable in any way. Not even from the safe haven of Europe after running away. Just a quick thought: How can 3,850 pilots comply with the obviously illegal check-in timeline every day? All of you breaking the law on a daily basis by complying and being just as guilty if anything ever happened. That shows you the absurdity of their grip on you all. In any civilized country this nonsense would stop after a single phone call to the authorities. And it would only take a single pilot to report it.
On the other hand any obligation that you might have in Dubai is enforced against you by criminal law. Even an unjustified and false telephone bill that you didn't pay will make you a criminal.
It is this upside down of the world that we are trying to warn the newjoiners about. Make sure you understand the point that if they change the rules over night you will be forced to comply with those new rules. None of the pilots knew about today's rosters and leave policies. Nobody was asked. Everybody has to comply.
The simple management answer: "if you don't like it leave it" doesn't specify what IT is. Because IT chnages on a monthly basis without any checks and balances.
And if they change IT to something that makes you leave who is going to cover the associated cost? The employee covers the bond, loss of pension fund, unemployment etc. You are being penalized when clearly the employer is at fault. This is such an insane concept that people who haven't fallen into the trap yet cannot understand it.
Good night from Europe
I understand that you are responding to a direct tease. But what kind of a point are you trying to make? That EK isn't bad because there are other bad places???
I am happy that the place works for you. It really didn't for me. Nor was it anything like what they promised in their presentations of rosters, leave etc. I believe that many guys find themselves in a position that they never signed up for.
Truth is that it is incredibly hard to get out of it. Even if there are other options you still need time off to get it all done. I had to find out the hard way that none of your rights as an employee are enforceable in any way. Not even from the safe haven of Europe after running away. Just a quick thought: How can 3,850 pilots comply with the obviously illegal check-in timeline every day? All of you breaking the law on a daily basis by complying and being just as guilty if anything ever happened. That shows you the absurdity of their grip on you all. In any civilized country this nonsense would stop after a single phone call to the authorities. And it would only take a single pilot to report it.
On the other hand any obligation that you might have in Dubai is enforced against you by criminal law. Even an unjustified and false telephone bill that you didn't pay will make you a criminal.
It is this upside down of the world that we are trying to warn the newjoiners about. Make sure you understand the point that if they change the rules over night you will be forced to comply with those new rules. None of the pilots knew about today's rosters and leave policies. Nobody was asked. Everybody has to comply.
The simple management answer: "if you don't like it leave it" doesn't specify what IT is. Because IT chnages on a monthly basis without any checks and balances.
And if they change IT to something that makes you leave who is going to cover the associated cost? The employee covers the bond, loss of pension fund, unemployment etc. You are being penalized when clearly the employer is at fault. This is such an insane concept that people who haven't fallen into the trap yet cannot understand it.
Good night from Europe
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in freedom
You bring some valid points in your post. I don't disagree with anything you have said.
One of those points you mention is report times. Like you, it's a bug bear of mine. At least it was. Whilst we may be reporting ahead of official time, for the purpose of briefing the cabin crew, I ask myself this. Would I prefer to work for an employer that gave me the extra 20 minutes and I drove myself into work, parked and bused/walked in or can I accept that I get driven in a bit earlier and brief the crew when I'm ready. For those that feel an early start may violate the previous day off, ask the FDM for separate transport. There are people out there with the balls to do so, believe me and it has never been questioned when I've requested it. Never. I guess it comes down to whether you accept it and make it work for you or whether you add it to your Company hate list that they're screwing you with another policy loaded in their favour.
When people spend years doing something they hate, when they have the opportunity and financial freedom to do something else, you have to ask yourself why? Grinding out a living, desperately unhappy with morose negativity pervading every part of your life including family and friends. You have a choice in life. Accept your circumstances or try to change them. I choose to accept the report time. For those that don't, they have a choice. Complain to management through ASR's, CSR's and Confidential Reports, or, accept it. Or, as MM and many others do, vent on PPRuNe and hope that others will be warned. I don't have a problem with that, numerous posts are testament to my own dissatisfaction with various policies and reductions in T&C's during record profit years. I too get sick and tired of the PR machine in full swing with millions invested in screens with ever increasing inches and starry lights in cavernous ceilings whilst training and investment in what's really important, the people, takes second place. And that's just my point. We accept it for what it is or decide we will be happier elsewhere.
So, if it genuinely is quality of life that one seeks and not remuneration, actively look for an exit strategy. I agree that it can't be achieved overnight but when the complaints are still rolling in from the same people 3 years later, I have little patience. Nobody forces us to stay here, right? When you get this pissed off, all you bring to the job is negativity. I fly with so many F/O's who spend more time complaining to me about complaining Captains than they do complaining about the Company! Whilst it may say something about the Company, it also says much about the person.
Life is too short.
Harry
You bring some valid points in your post. I don't disagree with anything you have said.
One of those points you mention is report times. Like you, it's a bug bear of mine. At least it was. Whilst we may be reporting ahead of official time, for the purpose of briefing the cabin crew, I ask myself this. Would I prefer to work for an employer that gave me the extra 20 minutes and I drove myself into work, parked and bused/walked in or can I accept that I get driven in a bit earlier and brief the crew when I'm ready. For those that feel an early start may violate the previous day off, ask the FDM for separate transport. There are people out there with the balls to do so, believe me and it has never been questioned when I've requested it. Never. I guess it comes down to whether you accept it and make it work for you or whether you add it to your Company hate list that they're screwing you with another policy loaded in their favour.
When people spend years doing something they hate, when they have the opportunity and financial freedom to do something else, you have to ask yourself why? Grinding out a living, desperately unhappy with morose negativity pervading every part of your life including family and friends. You have a choice in life. Accept your circumstances or try to change them. I choose to accept the report time. For those that don't, they have a choice. Complain to management through ASR's, CSR's and Confidential Reports, or, accept it. Or, as MM and many others do, vent on PPRuNe and hope that others will be warned. I don't have a problem with that, numerous posts are testament to my own dissatisfaction with various policies and reductions in T&C's during record profit years. I too get sick and tired of the PR machine in full swing with millions invested in screens with ever increasing inches and starry lights in cavernous ceilings whilst training and investment in what's really important, the people, takes second place. And that's just my point. We accept it for what it is or decide we will be happier elsewhere.
So, if it genuinely is quality of life that one seeks and not remuneration, actively look for an exit strategy. I agree that it can't be achieved overnight but when the complaints are still rolling in from the same people 3 years later, I have little patience. Nobody forces us to stay here, right? When you get this pissed off, all you bring to the job is negativity. I fly with so many F/O's who spend more time complaining to me about complaining Captains than they do complaining about the Company! Whilst it may say something about the Company, it also says much about the person.
Life is too short.
Harry
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Harry we as pilots voted to get rid of our pensions at Delta. At the time I was against it but as you can see from our quartly profits it was the right thing to do long term.
We lost some work rules but they are still the envy of the industry and our hourly rates are industry leading. No one at Delta voluntarily flies anywhere near 90 hours a month but with credit times some pilots get paid 90 hours.
To the best of my knowledge no one in the last 5 years has left Delta Airlines which the same can't be said for Emirates. We even took one pilot back who went to EK and wanted to come back to Delta.
I think you should compare other flag air carriers to each other.
We lost some work rules but they are still the envy of the industry and our hourly rates are industry leading. No one at Delta voluntarily flies anywhere near 90 hours a month but with credit times some pilots get paid 90 hours.
To the best of my knowledge no one in the last 5 years has left Delta Airlines which the same can't be said for Emirates. We even took one pilot back who went to EK and wanted to come back to Delta.
I think you should compare other flag air carriers to each other.
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If there was a 'like' button I would push it in agreement for Harry.
New Tomcat, to say that nobody has left Delta in the last 5 years is not really comparing apples with apples. We are mainly expats living abroad. The hard part is living that kind of life. If you compare Cathay Pacific to Emirates to Qatar to all other expat driven airlines you will probably find a higher turnover of expat pilots than say Delta, British airways, Qantas and so on.
The job of actually flying an aircraft at EK is enjoyable, in my opinion. The part about living in the Middle East is a challenge but that's part of living away from your country of origin and for some being away from their country of origin is a blessing. Being an expat is something I've done most of my life so this works for me and probably many others that don't contribute to this forum.
New Tomcat, to say that nobody has left Delta in the last 5 years is not really comparing apples with apples. We are mainly expats living abroad. The hard part is living that kind of life. If you compare Cathay Pacific to Emirates to Qatar to all other expat driven airlines you will probably find a higher turnover of expat pilots than say Delta, British airways, Qantas and so on.
The job of actually flying an aircraft at EK is enjoyable, in my opinion. The part about living in the Middle East is a challenge but that's part of living away from your country of origin and for some being away from their country of origin is a blessing. Being an expat is something I've done most of my life so this works for me and probably many others that don't contribute to this forum.
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I don't know every single detail regarding what was or wasn't agreed about you pensions but I do know enough to see what impact those decisions have had on a colleague of mine here in EK. He left Delta around 9 years ago and joined as a DEC. He's a true gentleman and a very competent pilot with over 20,000 hours under his increasing in girth belt. His view on the Delta pensions story should be a wake up call for everyone in this industry. It's left him very bitter about the process and the then incumbent management and certainly financially worse off. He described it as daylight robbery.
From a personal 'perspective' as Monarch Man refers to, I would have to agree with my US friend, describing your view as somewhat of a Stockholm Syndrome. How can you vote to get rid of a pension? You state that you were appossed to it. No **** Sherlock as I'd imagine were the other 99.9% of your mates. Your Union gave you a loaded gun from Delta and said "lose your pension or lose your jobs". Right? But a few years down the road the airline has shiny new liveries and uniforms, courtesy of your pension. Talk about being screwed. No wonder there's no vaseline in Dubai, you guys used it all up. Your referral to class leading pay and conditions, which admittedly is good, is now used as justification for the fact you guys took it royally up the rear and are probably too embarrassed to admit it. You rolled over and the CEO laughed all the way to his Hampton mansion. Sounds kind of familiar to the Monarch one and many other similar stories that plague this industry.
I just hope for your sake that this envious flying rate your refer to and the bonus they give you offsets the loss you made on those pensions.
As Harry said, pilots have short memories.
I don't know every single detail regarding what was or wasn't agreed about you pensions but I do know enough to see what impact those decisions have had on a colleague of mine here in EK. He left Delta around 9 years ago and joined as a DEC. He's a true gentleman and a very competent pilot with over 20,000 hours under his increasing in girth belt. His view on the Delta pensions story should be a wake up call for everyone in this industry. It's left him very bitter about the process and the then incumbent management and certainly financially worse off. He described it as daylight robbery.
From a personal 'perspective' as Monarch Man refers to, I would have to agree with my US friend, describing your view as somewhat of a Stockholm Syndrome. How can you vote to get rid of a pension? You state that you were appossed to it. No **** Sherlock as I'd imagine were the other 99.9% of your mates. Your Union gave you a loaded gun from Delta and said "lose your pension or lose your jobs". Right? But a few years down the road the airline has shiny new liveries and uniforms, courtesy of your pension. Talk about being screwed. No wonder there's no vaseline in Dubai, you guys used it all up. Your referral to class leading pay and conditions, which admittedly is good, is now used as justification for the fact you guys took it royally up the rear and are probably too embarrassed to admit it. You rolled over and the CEO laughed all the way to his Hampton mansion. Sounds kind of familiar to the Monarch one and many other similar stories that plague this industry.
I just hope for your sake that this envious flying rate your refer to and the bonus they give you offsets the loss you made on those pensions.
As Harry said, pilots have short memories.
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Mango you are correct to point out the uniqueness of an expat airline regards turn over. There was a time however when EKs greatest recruitment line was that 'nobody ever leaves'.....