I think Alpha has just been really lucky in Clark where the airline business cycle in the Philippines enabled them to get most but not all cadets placed in jobs. The Clark cadets who got into Air Arabia were really lucky. The same is happening at the moment in SHJ where Air Arabia has a shortage of FOs. The problem is in a downturn caused by eg problems in Iran, acute competition from say Fly Dubai, fewer resignations, say partial fleet grounding. Then it will be MPL cadets sitting around waiting and hoping with nowhere else to go. Then the problems of a non sponsored ( I mean sponsored in the true and traditional sense) cadet training programme will be apparent. By the way guys it is a fact in life that there is often no guarantee of a job to anyone doing a training course at Uni but the issue highlighted here is that everyone is asked to invest massively in a qualification that realistically has 1 and only 1 employer. I would be surprised if Alpha could do the same trick again as they did with placing the Clark cadets in an airline in another country that was never the sponsor of the cadets.
If any of you guys feel that all cadets MUST be hired Air Arabia and the contracts to be made that way, let me tell you it ain't gonna happen! In fact it happens nowhere! Don't expect anyone/everyone to be hired into the airline....the good ones should be hired though! why should any airline have an obligation of hiring someone who is not upto the mark???? Not every MBA grad gets into McKinsey, not every graduate doctor gets into American Hospital, not every CPL holder gets an airline job and neither would all MPLs get into the partner airlines...that's how it works everywhere. Stop staying in fool's paradise guys! Get real and hit the books! Blue skies up!! Cheers
You need to check the GCAA website and see eg CAAP 37 re MPL. There is also some stuff not written in the regs. I think this is the position with MPL. On qualification you get a MPL that is both type (A320 not A320 family) and airline (Air Arabia) specific. This is what the batch 1 guys have. Why - well I think the GCAA is just following the practice in other countries such as the UK and I think they seem to be following the UK CAA policy on endorsements to the licence. Just google Uk CAA lasors part K MPL and I think you will find a PDF on the CAA regs on MPL. You will see that as per the UK provisions the airline endorsement can be removed after line training. If you try to get another type rating endorsed before line training then bad luck you have to start the SIM training agian I think. After line training on the original type I think you can then get a new type endosed on the MPL. Also look at GCAA provisions for licence upgrades. MPL to ATPL requires 1,500 hours but can only count half time as PNF under GCAA regs so effectively say about 2,200 hours on flight deck to upgrade to ATPL.
Google ok but a MBA graduate, a medical graduate and a CPL holder can work for anyone worldwide so they have the chance to try and get the foot in somewhere, anywhere to get their CV going. See Green Kiwi's post - the GCAA MPL will be limited to Air Arabia until at least completion of line training and Air Arabia has no obligation to offer anyone that line training. I agree that expecting a guartantee of a job is not in the real world BUT this programme could have been set up differently so there was far more vetting of candidates and a mix of self paying, financing available and more deduction from salary when online so it was quasi sponsored in the true sense and this would have attracted a lot more candidates. Either that or offer a CPL or frozen ATPL and the best then go forward to A320 type rating with a high expectation of a job at Air Arabia. Those that don't still can use the qualification elsewhere. Fact is most people (parents) don't have AED 440,000 plus so the pool of potential cadets is very limited.
The AAG managers in Sharjah should inform future cadets that only the best will be hired with Air Arabia and then see how many will part with their hard earned money. Thus in order to lure cadets they are not even shown the contract. Tall verbal promises are made. Air Arabia will hire Mpls from Alpha des not mean all MPL cadets will be hired.
Atis777, agree completely. AA program could have been set up differently. A lot can be improved and it should be! I have expressed same views in my previous post. My point is, cadets at alpha have made a choice already and they had an option of doing a conventional CPL/IR before joining alpha. Were they all guaranteed a job at Arabia? If yes, I stand corrected. Apologies. If no, they cannot blame alpha for 'their' wrong choice..everyone knew MPL is a new program. Will take time before it starts running smoothly. If I were to do my flight training again, I would be wary of such a program. At least at this stage.
Thanks Google. Alpha gave no guarantee there would be a job but the programme does offer a good prospect (time will tell) because of the link with Air Arabia. Frankly noone in their right mind would have waited and waited and waited through all the delays if this was a CPL/IR programme.
One of the biggest problems with Alpha’s planning for this program, is that there was no real planning done.
They set up a flight line in Sharjah, with no research into Sharjah Airport, and then found out the hard way about all the restrictions with airspace, traffic and ATC.
They set up a MCC department in Sharjah, but why did they go for a B737 Sim, when Air Arabia are using A320’s?
And finally they knew they had to do an Intermediate and Advanced phase for the sim, however no thought was put into where this would happen, and how much it would cost. And with the high turn over in management at the top, I am guessing that whatever was planned, was also quickly forgotten when Staff either walked out, or were kicked out the door.
In the end I am really surprised that despite all the planning (or lack thereof), Alpha actually gained GCAA approval to operate.
However I guess things are improving…Flight training is now being sent to Australia. The latest rumour is that the MCC Sim will eventually be replaced with an A320. And by now I am guessing that Alpha have got their act together, and the Cadets are not being sent all over the world to complete the Intermediate and Advanced phase???
I dont have to repeat myself as the posts above yours has written about sim that you are so proud of. PP C000- I am sure you must be glad to read so many negative posts written about Alpha by your present and past cadets, instructors and staff who are well aware how Alpha works. It must be making interesting reading for your prospective cadets. Imagine this PPRuNe has a treasure trove of so many negative posts that Alpha can be proud of. No wonder the present management has to spend all their energy to defend Alpha.
Alpha Aviation Group, Ltd., together with its subsidiaries, Alpha Aviation Academy Europe, Alpha Aviation Academy UAE and Clark Aviation in Philippines, is a leading flight academy, specializing in the training of professional pilots. Their capabilities span the entire spectrum of professional pilot training from ab-initio level, through Boeing and Airbus type rating to the qualification of airline instructors and examiners. Their reputation for innovation was exemplified when the Company was awarded the 2007 Frost & Sullivan Award for Strategy and Innovation in commercial aviation training in Asia Pacific. Alpha Aviation Group is the world’s largest and most experienced Multi-Pilot License (MPL) training organization with partner airline programs in both the Philippines and UAE. In addition to their flagship MPL Program, Alpha Aviation Academy has recently introduced a CPL / IR Course in Philippines and will be adding further products over the coming months. The arrival of the Ascent® XJ Trainer™ will complement Alpha’s existing B737NG and A320 Full Flight Simulators in the UK and Philippines and further re-enforce the Company’s ability to ensure that ab-initio pilots are as well prepared as possible for their first job in a modern jet airliner. The company was founded in 2006 and is headquartered in London, the United Kingdom."
Where else can we find a reference to this "Award"?
"Their reputation for innovation was exemplified when the Company was awarded the 2007 Frost & Sullivan Award for Strategy and Innovation in commercial aviation training in Asia Pacific"
it is NOT a 737sim this is a specific sim for MPL courses
RP-C000, in either case, whether a proper sim or not, it’s still configured like a B737 i.e. with a control column instead of a side stick, and performance and systems like a B737 rather than an A320...and again the same question...why go for a B737 type, when there are plenty of MPL configured sims out there that can represent an A320? Would'nt that be better for continuity of training in all three phases of sim work?
Is AAA still rubbish? Didn't follow this thread for a long time now. Only bashing and f*cking this thread.. But if AAA is f*cked, it has to be f*cked here too right?
But still things didn't improve? Is Air Arabia going to cancel their agreement with AAA?
Stratocruiser377
"No, AAA is great and the relationship with Air Arabia is as strong as ever and growing."
Stratocruiser clearly you are from Alpha Aviation management. The GCAA shutdown Alpha Aviation MANY MONTHS AGO from taking any new cadets until the corruption allegations in Sharjah have been addressed and the unacceptable treatment of cadets changes. The flightline was shutdown and will never re-open because 3 crashes in a year became intolerable to the GCAA.
Is AAG-Sharjah still totally banned from new students? If so, how do you reconcile the above statement "AAA is great?"
P.S., still waiting for your (AAG / Clark Aviation management) reply regarding the AAG-Philippines disaster where you have 3-4 aircraft to share between 30 plus CPLIR students each needing 200 plus hours flight time. Are you still doing the maths to work out how many years each cadet will take to get their CPL?
Please dont send me a link to the Alpha website as the response, it does nothing in terms of credibility.
Bennyboy1 February 2012 The GCAA has placed a ban on the intake of all new cadets until such time as a they address the corruption allegations regarding back dating of contracts (with new conditions) forced upon cadets who were 4 months into the program and already paid their tuition fees, the numerous allegations of allowed cheating during ground school exams and the non existence of a proper and thourough pre-entrance pilot aptitude testing regime.
kinda busy but i have time to make a post with some info regarding australia!
Stratocruiser377
I know somebody on the programme and can assure you that AAG doesn't do anything on the cheap. The Ground School uses world class materials, the flying is carried out in conjunction with a first-class training school in Australia and the FNPT II and FFS are state of the art.
The ground school is first class?! In which dream world are u living in?! I have completed my ground school which is a converted hanger. When i joined we did not even have decent toilets! Our ground school was closed for a day of two when they upgraded the toilets. Which first class company allows for that to happen? Secondly the captains who teach us are good yes but the facilities they get are below par. They found it difficult to teach us stuff in AGK since they did not have prototypes for certain items. They always said that a turbo prop which is no longer in use would be useful for teaching purposes! They asked the alpha management for it but it was never provided.
Taras B
2. Alpha was asked to organize travel insurance for the MPL cadets before they arrived in Australia. However the majority of these MPL cadets going to Australia for training are arriving without any insurance, which makes it very expensive when they have to go to the doctor. The students who have arrived with insurance, have done so at their own expense. If those uninsured are involved in a barroom scuffle or a slip on a banana peel and break a bone, is Alpha going to pick up the hospital bill? Not likely. It is also unlikely that Australian Immigration is unaware of the students' uninsured status--and they are very strict about this sort of thing.
and
3. Alpha was also asked to organize formal winter uniforms for the students when they arrive in Australia. However this was not done, and the students are arriving in the cold weather, and expecting to be issued winter clothing from AAPA. And I can tell you, decent winter clothing is very expensive in Australia.
I can agree with that! Especially the latter one. The students from the first batch mentioned how Alpha never gave them winter clothings when they went to Aus. Alpha promised it to them but never got one. Then when they went to Aus with their own winter clothing they were all banned from wearing it since it did not match the uniform! AAPA ended up giving each of them coats and jumpers which only makes AAG end up paying more money. BAD BAD planning. If AAG had given them jumpers in the first place they would never had to pay extra to AAPA.
Lastly Taras B
4. Alpha recently received a phone call from a student in India who has already done 40 hours of C172 flying in India, and wanting to join the MPL course. They told him that he could join the MPL program in Sharjah and be exempt from flying 40 hours due to his previous experience (which is not true), and also told him that he can continue his training in Australia in the Cessna 172 with AAPA (which again is not true – AAPA have a fleet of all Piper PA 28’s). Furthermore, they also told him that when he finishes the training in Australia, he can work for AAPA or Regional Express in Australia if he wants to (again, if he is not an Australian resident – no chance).
Yes, AAPA does not have any C172 and some 25 Piper PA 28's but the flying school next to them has a Cessna 172. I am guessing that this student will have to pay to hire that aircraft which will only be more expensive for them And Rex will not hire him. From what i know (and i know that i am right, asked the AAPA students) Rex makes the students which they select to join AAPA sign contracts to make them work with REX for several years. The student only pays 2/3 of the total fees and the final 1/3 comes from their wages. Since this student has not signed a contract with rex from the very beginning he will not get a job.
On a different note, considering the current circumstances of AAA do you think that there are opportunity at Airarabia for pilots who have a CPL from elsewhere?
Yes, AAPA does not have any C172 and some 25 Piper PA 28's
Honestpilot, I don’t think AAPA has 25 PA28’s, I think it’s more like around 14 – 16, and a few Seminoles too. And last I checked, they cannot train private students on C172’s, especially when they have a fleet of brand new PA28’s. Considering insurance and cross-hire conditions, this would not be cost effective. I will have to confirm this, but I think the Alpha students currently training there will have to do some kind of upset training on the C172, because the PA28 is not capable of doing what is required by the GCAA, however this is only one flight.
Good luck to the 14 cadets if they started their training in Sharjah. They would need it if they have joined Alpha after reading the 352 negative posts. Wait their happy days will soon be over when after 5 months Alpha will come up with the contract which will be forced upon them. This is exactly how they work as there is a deliberate attempt to hand down pre dated contracts to cadets. This contract is one sided and goes in favour of Alpha where by cadets lose their right to take legal action on Alpha. Cadets do not take this contract lightly. Do go to GCAA and appeal to them that you do not want to sign such a contract where your sponsor airline is not even mentioned. Tears will follow soon after Alpha has made all the cadets sign the contract. Process of elimination will begin. At every stage cadets will be entrenched. Alpha has no plan to take all their cadets upto line training. Beaware you were warned in this PPRuNe and inspite of that if you wanted to gamble away your money good luck to you.
Captain Weird believe me they are all true. We were happy hard working cadets with hope in eyes when we joined Alpha looking towards a bright future as promised by the management. But they were dashed soon and killed by Alpha and our money gone. The irony is that this PPRuNe existed then but I was made not to believe it by the management. Once you set your foot into that office you for sure will be lured into the programme because you will begin to trust them. Then you are taken for a ride. All present cadets know but are trapped in as their money is with Alpha. The ones who come to defend Alpha are the cadets who are extracting extra favours for themselves and of course the management are ever ready to defend Alpha. Look no other thread or rather any aviation academy has so mant negative posts as Alpha
