Would going over there to train for CPL/IR from the UK without speaking any French be as stupid as it sounds?
Have others done it?
I'm just going through my options at the moment with Toronto 'winning the race'. I have been looking at Cargair however if speaking French is an issue ill rule out Quebec!
I think I know the answer to my own question although if I don't ask I won't get anywhere.
I trained over 20 years ago in the Montreal area and am a native of Quebec. I met students from all over the planet including a few Englishmen and they had no problems whatsoever. Transport Canada which is the equivalent of your UK CAA ,offers bilingual services and you have access to everything in English. Therefore French will not be an issue.....good luck to you whatever path you choose.....
Cheers,
RWTY
Hilarious what people will write... anyhow, I have lived in Montreal my whole life, and trained here at the same airport as Cargair, and never needed french (for aviation) until I got my first job.
Albeit I am bilingual, but for the flying portion there will always be an english speaking instructor, the books as you know are all english words, and ATC is bilingual. After a little while you'll pick up the other language quite easily.
Personally Montreal is where it's at, and Cargair likes to give their students jobs afterwards, so that's something to look for.
Thanks for the quick replys everyone! Will keep it in mind, im actually off to Toronto at the end of may to visit some relatives however I will be checking out some flight schools while im there!
I'm looking forward to it at although Cargair and the JAA ATPL course is very attractive!
English is the official and accepted language of world aviation. This is the only language that should be used for aviation so that all users will be able to understand. There have been a number of crashes due to use of a local language that some users were unable to understand. A mid-air crash between a BA airliner and another aircraft over the former Yugoslavia comes to mind. The use of French in Quebec is a reckless disregard of aviation safety. If you are in the air there, whether as crew or pax, you are at an increased risk of being in a mid-air crash or other disaster. Use of French in aviation in Quebec should be discontinued for safety.
I must add that I have flown over many decades in South Africa, a country that is fully bilingual as against Canada’s purely regional use of other than English, and I never heard anyone communicating in Afrikaans. Obviously South Africans have more of a safety culture and are more responsible than Canadians! Canucks lack the guts to stand up for aviation safety and demand that only English be used in Canadian aviation.
Canada, and that includes Quebec, has one of the best safety record in aviation. I have been flying in Europe, Asia, and in North, Central and South America and the use of the local language has never been an issue. In the USA, they are very concerned with runway incursions and, as I recall, the USA has, for now, only one official language: english. Finally Flight Safety programs in Canada, including Quebec, are amongst the best...
OK....I'll take the bite and discuss your outrageous statements about Quebec and Canada...... I don't really know your background but from what you are stating looks like you have not been around the world much. I too have flown in South Africa and trained on the 747 with SAA but would not say that South African is less safety conscious than Canada. Are the French more dangerous than others because they speak French in French airspace!? Are the Spanish also dangerous?! What about the Germans!? Hopefully you are not too thick to understand this.....
Enlighten me as to how many mid air crashes there have been in Quebec which were related to the French language!?!?. I would suggest that you educate yourself prior to making such statements about Quebec and Canadian aviation.... mon osti de tabernak....
I will not say that Canadian airspace is unsafe. It is one of the safest.
But as a pilot that goes into YQB on a regular basis, ie weelky.
I find that my situational awareness is greatly reduced in the YQB
control zone because of the mix in languages. I am usually the lone
english speaking aircraft with 4 or 5 others speaking french, and I have
no idea where they are or what they are doing.
And the guys in the YQB tower are preloaded to be pissed off if you
make an issue of it.
Waiting in position to T/O, the tower guy finally came back to us after a
very long french transmission, and cleared us for T/O.
My partner asked about the position of the A/C that the tower guy had just
spoken with in french.
He was told, "you worry about flying your plane, and I will worry about controlling the aircraft"
Totally unprofessional, but quite typical of the French and their language
attitude. It was more important to him to try and make the language
not appear to be a safety issue, than to provide information to a requesting
flight crew.
Quote: “...........but would not say that South African is less safety conscious than Canada. “
Huh???? Who said or implied that SA is less safety conscious than Canada? If anybody attributes that to me on the basis of my post above then they need to reread and COMPREHEND that post or have a friend explain it to them.
This is not just a language or local politics issue, it is also a SAFETY issue. 176 died in the crash between a BA Trident and a DC-9 on 10 September 1976. A major contributing factor to this mid-air crash was: “The controller was speaking in Croatian to the Yugoslavian plane, which meant that the Trident crew was deprived of information that might have saved their lives.”
Similar concerns have been posted on this and other boards in the past, particularly about the use of French by controllers and pilots in France. Others are unable to understand and lose situational awareness, to the detriment of safety.
There have been other crashes and near misses worldwide because of the use of other than English. Should more be deliberately risked for local political reasons or should everything reasonably possible be done to remove unnecessary risks and improve aviation safety? When it comes to aviation one’s ability in languages other than English is irrelevant as for SAFETY only English should be used worldwide in aviation.
It is a sad commentary on present day Soviet Canuckistan that political expediency takes precedence over aviation SAFETY and common sense. Having said that, I will agree with a poster above that Canadian airspace is one of the safest. However, that safety is degraded in Quebec by the use of French purely for political expediency. This can and should be remedied without delay. Flight crews, the travelling public and (as demonstrated at Lockerbie) those on the ground deserve better.
Flying in Quebec will be an enjoyable experience and I assure you that the "French" controllers are just as professional and courteous as anywhere else in the world.....but as you will learn to know, there will always be an a-hole in these posts... and obviously a wannabe Canadian from some remote hole in South African airspace but hey,just take the good with the one bad....et bon voyage....and enjoy the trouble free skies and landscape of Quebec....Good luck in your budding career......
It takes some serious ear training to understand Quebecois. I've met native French speakers who've compimented me on my French who tell me they can't understand the Quebec dialect.
And I have trouble following Cockney and Glaswegian
If you have the very good fortune to make friends with a Quebecoise, she will teach you
Ah yes, the Quebec problem. Separate ATC union, separate pension plan from the rest of Canada. NAZI-like language and immigration laws that even the French wouldn't consider, but they do want the equalization payments from the have-provinces like Alberta and Ontario. They will never admit to being a have-not province, but it is not really a province, it is more like a huge region incorporating two city-states, Montreal and Quebec City, and the vast, sparsely populated remainder, which is considered an economic and cultural back-water by many sociologists. Montrealers generally consider themselves culturally superior to the rest of North Americans, despite a rather bizarre record of racist and mysoginistic crimes in the city. Quebec City, which relys heavily on the American tourist trade, loves nothing better than to belittle Americans behind their backs. Quebec wants to be a sovereign state, yet they want to retain the Canadian dollar as currency, and they want the federal government of Canada to protect their shores, and administer their northern and arctic region, including the administration of Indian Affairs. Quebec, the 'crazy aunt' of confederation. We love her, but no one has the fortituide to tell her she is crazy. And no one sees fit to let her on her own, fearing her demise.
Last edited by evansb : 6th February 2008 at 16:17.
Good post evansb, you have really summarized the culture accurately.
I lived in Quebec City for 8 years.
I do not feel unsafe in Quebec City or Montreal airspace. The controllers are very good. It is in the uncontrolled regions where a flight service specialist is translating position reports to an english and french aircraft near a control zone. You are both closing at 9 miles a minute wanting to land at same airport. If FSS guy is poor in english or slow on the radio, then it is very uncomfortable.
I think it is the ATC system that is the most important thing. Some countries not only have poor english speakers , but have poor Air Traffic Controllers.
I often think of the Tenerife accident and the poor communication between everyone.
Good luck in your decision on where to train. There are many excellent airports in the Toronto area where one can learn.
J'ai rarement vu quelqu'un d'aussi raciste et condescendant que ça. Pas surprenant avec l'endroit d'ou tu viens. En plus, dans la cinquantaine, tu n'as sûrement pas reçu l'éducation te permettant de comprendre que dans ce beau pays qu'est le Canada il y a plus que de se promener en camion avec un chapeau de cowbou sur la tête. Écoute Lucky Luke, j'ai fait 10 ans de militaire et j'ai dû m'adapter, apprendre l'anglais c'était une question de survie dans cet institution. Si au moins on te demandait de parler en français sur les ondes quand tu voles au Québec, je comprendrais quMil pourrait y avoir un problème de sécurité. Ce n'est pas le cas et les controleurs parlent un anglais qui est très bien ici. Si t'es pas capable de comprendre qu'il existe une nation qui s'appelle le Québec (C'est ton Harper chéri qui l'a dit) et qu'au Québec la langue officielle est le français, et bien continue à chiquer du tabac et à t'amuser avec ton lasso mon chum.
Translation for all the albertains red-neck who agree with EvansB: Go f***k yourself, you ignorant racist.
I have flown for many years in Quebec all over the province I am unilingual English and never was I treated like an outsider by the people with whom I worked and lived with.
Most of the bitterness between the two different cultures has been formented by raw politics the people are no different than anywhere else.
As to the language issue I feel inferior not being able to speak both on a personal level.
...... I don't really know your background but from what you are stating looks like you have not been around the world much. I too have flown in South Africa and trained on the 747 with SAA but would not say that South African is less safety conscious than Canada. Are the French more dangerous than others because they speak French in French airspace!? Are the Spanish also dangerous?! What about the Germans!? Hopefully you are not too thick to understand this
.....
. I would suggest that you educate yourself prior to making such statements about Quebec and Canadian aviation....
mon osti de tabernak....
.Good luck in your budding career......
Or are you just a Quebec wanna be?!
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