Flying in Quebec - Don't speak French
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Bon point Menard, but the CPDLC use are where HF voice was, 90% of the time was position report, and who was keeping radio watch on that anyways ..
For the VHF voice on approach difference use of frequency for A/C who are on a different star/sid or rwy just just remove unwanted RT thus improve situational awareness dont you think??
For the VHF voice on approach difference use of frequency for A/C who are on a different star/sid or rwy just just remove unwanted RT thus improve situational awareness dont you think??
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In the future, CPDLC/ADS will also be used on non-HF airspaces. (Example, Yangon's airspace, Burma).
My point is:
The fact than another language is used on a freq. is not worst than having other airplanes around you, that you are not aware of, because they're using a different frequency, or CPDLC. Same thing.
My point is:
The fact than another language is used on a freq. is not worst than having other airplanes around you, that you are not aware of, because they're using a different frequency, or CPDLC. Same thing.
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Menard, for some years technology has also supplied the answer to replace the loss of voice based situational awareness or to alleviate its failings: eg TCAS. Do you believe ALL aircraft down to the size of a flying lawnchair untralight should have TCAS and is it fair to make the private owner incur such expense?
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I'm sorry but the use of different languages on RT has been a contributory factor in a number of accidents (in the air and on the ground). That is a fact.
Why do French Canadians resort to arrogance, profanity and insults? It doesn't make your point any clearer but it reveals SO much about you!
Why do French Canadians resort to arrogance, profanity and insults? It doesn't make your point any clearer but it reveals SO much about you!
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You clearly don't understand how arrogant you appear to the rest of the world then?! (Try posts 19, 30 & 39 for starters.)
Would you prefer it if everyone was bilingual because of Quebec? I found it really frustrating (as did many others) to go to a meeting which was held up because the translation system failed and the French speakers (who were paid an extra premium to be bilingual) refused to continue.
Personnally, IMHO, leave Quebec to be independent. That means truly independent, however, without any support from the rest of Canada. Still want to be independent?
Keep smiling!
Would you prefer it if everyone was bilingual because of Quebec? I found it really frustrating (as did many others) to go to a meeting which was held up because the translation system failed and the French speakers (who were paid an extra premium to be bilingual) refused to continue.
Personnally, IMHO, leave Quebec to be independent. That means truly independent, however, without any support from the rest of Canada. Still want to be independent?
Keep smiling!
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Menard,
CPDLC is an enroute communication service typically used in remote areas to replace HF. Fair deal.
The dual language communication thing is more of an issue in hi density controlled airspace around airports in terminal areas where having a picture on where you are to other traffic is much more important. Not really comparable for this discussion.
CPDLC is an enroute communication service typically used in remote areas to replace HF. Fair deal.
The dual language communication thing is more of an issue in hi density controlled airspace around airports in terminal areas where having a picture on where you are to other traffic is much more important. Not really comparable for this discussion.
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I'm sorry but the use of different languages on RT has been a contributory factor in a number of accidents (in the air and on the ground). That is a fact.
In France, ATC is provided in English & French.....without a problem. Keep that in mind...
Some Latin American countries also provide bilingual ATC. Correct if I am wrong, but I was told that ATC is bilingual in mainline China.
I fail to see where the problem is?
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tbaylx
Try LHR approach/Director/tower, or FRA approach/tower.
At peak, nobody from left rwy/right rwy is on the same frequency.
Understand you fly for EK, if we fly together I'll show you. But don't worry, I won't speak french to you, to make communication clear. But if we fly through China, France, or over any other country where another language is used, please don't panic, I'll be there.
Pulling your leg...
menard.
Try LHR approach/Director/tower, or FRA approach/tower.
At peak, nobody from left rwy/right rwy is on the same frequency.
Understand you fly for EK, if we fly together I'll show you. But don't worry, I won't speak french to you, to make communication clear. But if we fly through China, France, or over any other country where another language is used, please don't panic, I'll be there.
Pulling your leg...
menard.
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Why would it surprise me that you fail to see the problem........
I refer to my previous post about insults.
By the way, in 2002 ICAO recognised the use of mixed languages in ATC as a contributory factor in runway incursions in the SAM/CAR region. There's a PPT presentation if you Google it. I have to apologise though as it is in English.
So I guess it's ICAO being narrow-minded then?
I refer to my previous post about insults.
By the way, in 2002 ICAO recognised the use of mixed languages in ATC as a contributory factor in runway incursions in the SAM/CAR region. There's a PPT presentation if you Google it. I have to apologise though as it is in English.
So I guess it's ICAO being narrow-minded then?
Last edited by Number2; 1st Mar 2008 at 15:23.
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Menard,
I guess you aren't getting my point...anyway i find it much harder to develop an air picture if i don't know where the aircraft are that are landing at the same airport AND runway that i am...for LHR i could really care less how i fit in with the aircraft on the other runway. I do care how i fit in with the one i will be in conflict with landing on the runway i am using. If they all are speaking the same language then it makes it easier.
I'll take you up on the offer as well, if we fly together you get to do all the radio work in China, India, Cairo and anywhere else i have to get ATC to say again more than once a day. Deal
I guess you aren't getting my point...anyway i find it much harder to develop an air picture if i don't know where the aircraft are that are landing at the same airport AND runway that i am...for LHR i could really care less how i fit in with the aircraft on the other runway. I do care how i fit in with the one i will be in conflict with landing on the runway i am using. If they all are speaking the same language then it makes it easier.
I'll take you up on the offer as well, if we fly together you get to do all the radio work in China, India, Cairo and anywhere else i have to get ATC to say again more than once a day. Deal
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Quote: “So if you are Number2, who is Number1?”
At least we know who Number Six is.
Nuuk, I suggest you nip round to the nearest video rental store and see if you can obtain a copy of the 1960s TV series “The Prisoner”, starring Patrick McGoohan, particularly the final episode. After viewing it, please let us know who you think is Number One.
Be seeing you!
At least we know who Number Six is.
Nuuk, I suggest you nip round to the nearest video rental store and see if you can obtain a copy of the 1960s TV series “The Prisoner”, starring Patrick McGoohan, particularly the final episode. After viewing it, please let us know who you think is Number One.
Be seeing you!
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This thread is going nowhere!
It's to sad to see how people claim that language barriers are the primary cause for runway incursions!
Is it not proven that most runway incursions happen due to congestion at busy airports?
Aiports like YUL, YQB, YOW, YHU, etc... have been providing bilingual traffic service for years without conflict!
The people who discriminate against other languages, are the same type of people who only know one language and are humiliated because of it! Instead of accepting it, they create bogus arguments......
This is how ATC works......they give you an instruction/clearance & you do it. It does not matter what language the controllers uses with other traffic. It's as simple as that!
It's to sad to see how people claim that language barriers are the primary cause for runway incursions!
Is it not proven that most runway incursions happen due to congestion at busy airports?
Aiports like YUL, YQB, YOW, YHU, etc... have been providing bilingual traffic service for years without conflict!
The people who discriminate against other languages, are the same type of people who only know one language and are humiliated because of it! Instead of accepting it, they create bogus arguments......
This is how ATC works......they give you an instruction/clearance & you do it. It does not matter what language the controllers uses with other traffic. It's as simple as that!
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Number two said: "'this thread is going nowhere...'
Thank you for that valuable and insightful input......"
ça me fait plaisir/my pleasure...
four pages of "dialogue de sourd"... happens every six months or so and never achieves anything except name calling and senseless comments... apart for one or two sensible posters, the rest is pot stirring at its best.
Thank you for that valuable and insightful input......"
ça me fait plaisir/my pleasure...
four pages of "dialogue de sourd"... happens every six months or so and never achieves anything except name calling and senseless comments... apart for one or two sensible posters, the rest is pot stirring at its best.
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Yes it's sad, for a little while it was pure profesional/political debate. But it's seem that on a forum people have the tendency to use there feeling intead of there head when talking...
I give up........
I give up........
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Quote by flaps2billion: “they create bogus arguments......”
Flaps2billion, are you unable to read and comprehend the following that I put in post 11 above?
“This is not just a language or local politics issue, it is also a SAFETY issue. 176 died in the crash between a BA Trident and a DC-9 on 10 September 1976. A major contributing factor to this mid-air crash was: “The controller was speaking in Croatian to the Yugoslavian plane, which meant that the Trident crew was deprived of information that might have saved their lives.”
Do you consider the deaths of 176 passengers and crew to be a bogus argument? If so, I can only express my disgust at your political expediency and outright callousness!
Who said language barriers are the primary cause of runway incursions? There is reference to the use of a language other then English being a contributory cause to runway incursions, but there is a significant difference between it being a contributory cause and it being the primary cause. You would seem to have a severe comprehension problem! (Perhaps the sort of comprehension problem that causes runway incursions, altitude errors, turning the wrong way, etc.)
Why wait until there is another crash due to the use of other than English in aviation? Intelligent and responsible people do everything reasonably possible to learn from previous mistakes and prevent the same thing happening again. Doh! There is even a similar motto in every issue of Canada’s Aviation Safety Letter. It’s too bad there are too many Canadians who ignore such responsible attitudes.
Note that the use of English in aviation is not specifically anti-French. ALL other languages should not be used in aviation. Like it or not, English is supposed to be the international language of aviation and for SAFETY is the only language that should be used in aviation communications.
Also, like it or lump it, English is the de facto world language of international trade and commerce.
Flaps2billion, are you unable to read and comprehend the following that I put in post 11 above?
“This is not just a language or local politics issue, it is also a SAFETY issue. 176 died in the crash between a BA Trident and a DC-9 on 10 September 1976. A major contributing factor to this mid-air crash was: “The controller was speaking in Croatian to the Yugoslavian plane, which meant that the Trident crew was deprived of information that might have saved their lives.”
Do you consider the deaths of 176 passengers and crew to be a bogus argument? If so, I can only express my disgust at your political expediency and outright callousness!
Who said language barriers are the primary cause of runway incursions? There is reference to the use of a language other then English being a contributory cause to runway incursions, but there is a significant difference between it being a contributory cause and it being the primary cause. You would seem to have a severe comprehension problem! (Perhaps the sort of comprehension problem that causes runway incursions, altitude errors, turning the wrong way, etc.)
Why wait until there is another crash due to the use of other than English in aviation? Intelligent and responsible people do everything reasonably possible to learn from previous mistakes and prevent the same thing happening again. Doh! There is even a similar motto in every issue of Canada’s Aviation Safety Letter. It’s too bad there are too many Canadians who ignore such responsible attitudes.
Note that the use of English in aviation is not specifically anti-French. ALL other languages should not be used in aviation. Like it or not, English is supposed to be the international language of aviation and for SAFETY is the only language that should be used in aviation communications.
Also, like it or lump it, English is the de facto world language of international trade and commerce.
Last edited by Carrier; 4th Mar 2008 at 17:36.
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“This is not just a language or local politics issue, it is also a SAFETY issue. 176 died in the crash between a BA Trident and a DC-9 on 10 September 1976. A major contributing factor to this mid-air crash was: “The controller was speaking in Croatian to the Yugoslavian plane, which meant that the Trident crew was deprived of information that might have saved their lives.”
Do you consider the deaths of 176 passengers and crew to be a bogus argument? If so, I can only express my disgust at your political expediency and outright callousness!
Do you consider the deaths of 176 passengers and crew to be a bogus argument? If so, I can only express my disgust at your political expediency and outright callousness!
Once you make initial contact in English, the service you will receive will always be in english. Not French nor Croatian!
My arguments are not politicial! Just stating facts about the reality of things. The bottom line is, the system works in Quebec for all pilots.
Bilingual ATC is not the danger. I strongly believe the bilingual problem arises in the CzE, MF, ATF zones & 126.7. That is where French & English pilot have to communicate & make conflict resolutions.
I was once told on a MF to speak French because other private pilots would not understand me......
But A,B,C,D zones are different. You get your instruction/ clearance & you do it.
It doesn't matter what language the other traffic is speaking in a control zone. You get your instructions from ATC & you do it!