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Old 20th May 2010, 21:40   #3221 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: london
Posts: 9
Giza - I agree! Whatever the rights or the wrongs of this dispute - and our family is firmly in the Backing BA camp, it is cringeworthy to watch these 'so called' professionals embarrassing themselves both outside the court and also on the open topped bus. What a rabble. I certainly look at crew with VERY different eyes now when I travel.
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Old 20th May 2010, 21:41   #3222 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 92
Unite/BASSA have chosen to go for the "nuclear" option whilst WW has been using kid gloves so far.
He has been very patient, has avoided making personal comments about any UNITE officials, even stating that he respects them.
On the other hand BASSA have made this a personal issue, and it seems that all they are capable of is to hurl insults at everyone who does not agree with their twisted logic, They are totally unable to articulate a coherent argument.
It will be interesting what happens when the gloves come off. after 12 June.What will be his "nuclear" option??? The city, the shareholders, the board and the vast majority of BA staff will want him to do something drastic.
BASSA, you should be very afraid!!
Sadly, I agree with an earlier poster that there is likely to be collateral damage to the majority of decent, hardworking and caring CC.
One way of mitigating that is to turn up for work on Monday. The more of you who do so the more likely that BASSA will lose their power base and hopefully their facilities agreement.
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Old 20th May 2010, 22:23   #3223 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lalaland
Age: 45
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Wings
Ha ha ha!!!! The BASSAmentalists could only fill up 2/3s of the top deck of the bus. And as for "Willie Willie Willie out out out".....yawn.
Currently down route and the clip being played repetitively on the local news station shows the BASSAmentalists in their toy-town bus singing 'I'd rather shag a loader than a scab''

Well Done Bassa! - you just can't help yourselves - first it was the engineers and the ill-maintained aircraft comment, now your picking on the loaders.
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Old 20th May 2010, 22:30   #3224 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 71
I am becoming more and more bewildered over this whole affair.

I witness on these boards and speak to many, many crew who are against this strike and don't like the way things have turned out.

Well, the bottom line is that a lot must have voted "yes" in the ballot.
So, what is the position. They voted "yes" but didn't mean it really? Or voted "yes" not realising what this would actually entail?

I suspect the latter and things have snowballed to a position that most of them feel is out of hand.

So, forgetting the "mandate" that BASSA/Unite have, this is still their union.
Surely they could lobby their reps to register dissatisfaction - get a change in policy.
Whatever the legal rights of the unions mandate and what they can do with it, surely they should still listen to their members.

I do sympathise with Crew that have got "caught-up" in all this either innocently or without foresight.

But bottom-line is they voted to go down this line - isn't it up to them to try and halt it?

Maybe I'm being harsh and/or missing something, but those cheering outside court today didn't make me cringe - far from it, they made me seethe with anger because they were basically laughing at the rest of us. Cheering that our attempts to keep the airline running will be challenged once again.
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Old 20th May 2010, 22:36   #3225 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Quote:
But bottom-line is they voted to go down this line - isn't it up to them to try and halt it?
I agree - but how? For example can the line members arrange/hold a vote of no confidence in their Company Council? Does the BASSA constitution allow for such a vote? What pressures would be put on the line members to desist?

From my limited experience of Union politics I'm of the opinion the Reps have a much better knowledge of the Union rule book than the electorate.

You're right though, this is getting very ugly and it will get worse. There are perhaps 5000 BASSA diehards threatening the jobs of 30,000 plus other BA employees.....
wiggy is online now  
Old 20th May 2010, 22:43   #3226 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 71
Quote:
From my limited experience of Union politics I'm of the opinion the Reps have a much better knowledge of the Union rule book than the electorate.
Agree - but there must be some ex-reps or even current ones that feel the way the rest of us do. Can they not whip something up?

I had hopes that the PCCC would do something similar - but it seems to be a softly, softly - hope they come approach.

I'm an Engineer, but I'd happily walk round crew centres and car-parks garnering support for a vocal opposition.
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Old 20th May 2010, 23:29   #3227 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere in between
Posts: 109
I am starting to doubt the master plan. Even after a full year WW is still negotiating. He's even giving back (partial) staff travel after being on record saying he'll NEVER give it back. I've heard so many times "after ... the gloves will come off" or "NOW he's going nuclear" or "after this courtcase blah blah". The lastest being: after record losses are announced tomorrow he will push the button and all will become clear.

Will it? Where is it going to end? Corporate clients, small business clients, holiday makers, everyone is slowly starting to avoid flying BA. I can't blame them. The company is slowly but surely being killed. BA has no right to exist. Take a step back and think before you jump for joy at being able to use your "civil right" to strike.

Even if some sort of agreement will be reached the company will be stuck with about 3000 people who will do anything to disrupt, discredit and damage BA.

I've worked for a couple of airlines, but I am honestly shocked by the attitude of employees in this company. It has got to get rid of this state owned, I-have-a-right-to-be-here attitude. If you're not performing as expected, you are out.

I have always really enjoyed working with cabin crew, but please WW, it's about time you took control of this mess. Dismissing a couple thousand striking cc and paying for an unfair dismissal claim has got to be cheaper in the long run then letting this situation continue to fester.

SACK 'EM and let's make BA a great airline with people who care.

Rant over
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Old 20th May 2010, 23:47   #3228 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere in between
Posts: 109
Peter,

As a BA pilot, unfortunately, I have to agree with your sentiments. See my post above yours. But let me just make one point in favour of BA: it's "only" around 3000 out of roughly 14000 cabin crew that are trying ruin your plans and my company, so although it might feel like it, please don't assume BA as a company is to blame. Just about everyone in BA would love to see the back of them.

After this is over, please remember most cabin crew are doing their best to make your flight a great experience, so don't give up on BA completely
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Old 21st May 2010, 00:29   #3229 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 92
Currently down route and the clip being played repetitively on the local news station shows the BASSAmentalists in their toy-town bus singing 'I'd rather shag a loader than a scab''

Classy!!!
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Old 21st May 2010, 02:18   #3230 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 17
A piece from WW on the intranet today before the court decision. I can't see where anyone else has posted it but the line towards the end is significant where he says

"Should this strike go ahead it might not be the end of industrial action by BASSA but it will be the beginning of the end."

Apologies if someone else already posted this.
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Old 21st May 2010, 06:05   #3231 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 343
So how do the die-hards see this ending? Do they think WW will roll over and leave them untouched? Human nature being what it is...do they think WW would do this?
If I was a striker, I would be weighing up what I stood to gain/lose by continuing on my present course of action vs the risk of losing my job.
Would it be fair to say that the BASSA die-hards don't believe that they could lose their job over this? If that is the case then I understand your present strategy.
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Old 21st May 2010, 06:33   #3232 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lalaland
Age: 45
Posts: 129
British Airways in record 531m loss

BBC News - British Airways in record 531m loss

So BA announces record losses of 531M, I wonder if this news will put any crew off from striking?

BASSA will probably claim that BA has lied and that really the company actually made a profit!!
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:21   #3233 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: up up up
Posts: 369
531 million lost this year.

401 million lost last year.

Share price drops 17% in the last month.

Company worth 2.2 Billion.

Pension deficit 3.7 Billion

and Now BA management are playing macho over cabin crew perks?

Wake up.
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:27   #3234 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Woking
Posts: 103
BA gave in on staff travel. It was there if you wanted it back.
In light of all those losses you could equally say BASSA is being macho over a bit of seniority.
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:41   #3235 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sussex
Posts: 80
Wirbelstrum wrote:

Quote:
I seem to remember that the figures in the press came from the CAA not from BA. Willie Walsh has never, as far as I am aware, publically given exact figures. He has simply re-iterated that BA Cabin Crew are amongst the best paid in the UK industry.
Incorrect - a personal letter from WW was printed in full in the Daily Mail. In that he quoted LH CSD's averaged 56K per year (impossible)...I had two Gold ECH's on a JFK - LHR flt show me this while passing in the cabin along with a couple of snide comments as well. I took the article into the CRC to show a CC Mgr who was equally as shocked as I and my colleagues were.

He has deliberately(or his PR dept.) misled the UK public. In fact the highest a CSD earned was 84K and that was printed in the Independent....lie,lies,and more lies.

Mmmmm...who is the highest paid CEO of an airline worldwide?

Walsh must GO now.
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:43   #3236 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: up up up
Posts: 369
They're both being stupid but ultimately it's the management that are answerable to the shareholders.

In most airlines, the employees going on strike would lead to people in management being sacked. Prolonged industrial action is a failure of the management to manage their employees. It doesn't mean giving them what they want but it means reducing costs in a way which takes the employees on board. Most other airlines seem to be able to do it.

BA have an industrial dispute which will subtract millions from next years figures. Most people I know won't even book with BA if there is an alternative. It's time for WW to sort it out NOT prolong an industrial dispute by playing hard ball with an employees union over perks.
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:54   #3237 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lalaland
Age: 45
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Odeboyse
DJ only one person needs to be sacked to give us a chance of returning this proud company back to the number 1 airline in the world
The face at the top may change, but CC savings still need to made - the only chance this company has if both sides sit down and talk.
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Old 21st May 2010, 07:59   #3238 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 943
Angel

Just been listening to Lord Tebbit on 5 Live and he was critical of Mr. Walsh and felt that public opinion was moving towards the union because of Mr. Walsh going to court over a 'nit picking' issue with the vote.

Now, as I said earlier, I voted No. I came to work during the strike and I am so upset with all that is going on but I do feel it has been handled badly by Mr. Walsh. I never thought I would see the time when someone like Lord Tebbit took such a balanced view. It is worth having a listen to him.

I just want some of you to realise that not all crew are in the union. From the start of this over !/3 were not in the union. Now even less are. probably less than half now. Many have left but this actually makes any future vote worse because the vote is for union members only. As people leave and many have the proportion of yes votes go up!! When you leave you no longer get a vote. As I said in my last post the current mandate was taken just after Christmas and this was a time when untrue info was being fed to the media and when boards were being put up all over the company for people to write nasty comments on about crew. Even though I voted No I found it hard listening to the way Mr. Walsh talked about crew and this is what gave such a high vote for a strike.

Many crew who said Yes wish they had not but Mr. Walsh is not allowing a way out of this and that is making everything worse. The mandate the union are using is from way back and as I said earlier, if it was run again it still might be a Yes because so many crew have resigned now from the union.

I really am finding it hard to read some of the vitriol on this sight. It sadens me to hear some of this hatred. I work on eurofleet and I always have a great relationship with all the pilots and I hope none of the ones I fly with hate me the way some of you seen to hate all cabin crew.

I want this to end as much as anyone else and I know how damaging it is but wanting lots of nice and kind but misguided people to loose their jobs is not a good thing to be saying.

People need to step back and see what is really happening. Crew are just worried about their jobs just like everyone else but they have been badly guided by their union. By the way BA actually encourages Union membership on the traning course when people join the company.

We just need both Mr. Walsh and the union to step back abit.

Many thanks for listening. I probably wont post again because some of the postings on this sight are not nice and not helpful either. I am finding it very upsetting to read such hate for crew.
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Old 21st May 2010, 08:02   #3239 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 86
Lost days of strike

Noted that Unite haven't added another 5 days to the end of this strike to recover the ones they lost this week. Is this because they don't want to edge themselves any closer to the 12th June? It seems odd that they haven't ceased the opportunity to inflict more pain where possible?
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Old 21st May 2010, 08:24   #3240 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere in between
Posts: 109
Angry

Whatdoesthisbuttondo:
Quote:
and Now BA management are playing macho over cabin crew perks?
When will the message get through? They are managing their company. YOU are playing macho with the rest of BA

Quote:
Most other airlines seem to be able to do it.
Yes, have a look at what happened to another intransigent cc group (Google Aer lingus, compulsory redundancies and new contracts)

BA has just announced another record loss and you are still ignorant enough to blame WW and intent on striking?

I've lost hope and I am getting so desperate I would ALMOST agree with the diehards. Let the company go bust. See how you like that

BA has no right to exist. Look at history, Sabena employees we're still striking on the day the company went bust. I can tell you personal stories of people waking up to find they ruined their company. A lot of them thought "it would never happen"...
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