Virgin pilots
Thread Starter
Some of the Va. Pilots above need to get a life and lighten up.
mean while I am way ahead of all in the the general topic area above. Ask me in person why.
mean while I am way ahead of all in the the general topic area above. Ask me in person why.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Any recent FO applicants able to provide a rough timeline on the recruitment process? How long after submitting an application did it take for you to get a response?
Some of the Va. Pilots above need to get a life and lighten up.
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Thread Starter
Hell didn’t realise I was so popular.
Again ask why in person .
I have the answers , trust me, you just have to ask in person.
And hell I can run that Bake Sale , make no mistake.
Again ask why in person .
I have the answers , trust me, you just have to ask in person.
And hell I can run that Bake Sale , make no mistake.
I think your point in principle is VA Pilots are underpaid, overworked, undervalued, under resourced on shift, and on an crap agreement. 95% agree with you on those points. That’s no trade secret.
Just be careful getting too sidetracked when negotiations really start to get heated. Dont get too emotional in regards to that 5%. It’s pretty darn clear the whole team isn’t voting anything in unless the pay freeze is pulled back plus other items. It’s clear as mud, you don’t need to spend millions on new lawyers, you will not find a more angry pilot body on earth. Don’t make this too complicated, the path ahead is clear, everyone knows what is acceptable to be voted in and the results will prove that. The large profit figure recently announced just made everyone even more angry, remember the dialogue a few months back, we cannot afford to pay this and that, we only made a hundred million bucks. The attempt to make out that a hundred million was about as best as it will get, was nothing but lies. The company has afford to reinstate the old deal, the proof is in the numbers.
Talking about seating layouts and stuff is getting too off track from what is important here. Stick to the above key points, and you will get a decent outcome.
Don’t blow off course folks. 3 months to run. I feel like you are rocking the boat the wrong way.
Just be careful getting too sidetracked when negotiations really start to get heated. Dont get too emotional in regards to that 5%. It’s pretty darn clear the whole team isn’t voting anything in unless the pay freeze is pulled back plus other items. It’s clear as mud, you don’t need to spend millions on new lawyers, you will not find a more angry pilot body on earth. Don’t make this too complicated, the path ahead is clear, everyone knows what is acceptable to be voted in and the results will prove that. The large profit figure recently announced just made everyone even more angry, remember the dialogue a few months back, we cannot afford to pay this and that, we only made a hundred million bucks. The attempt to make out that a hundred million was about as best as it will get, was nothing but lies. The company has afford to reinstate the old deal, the proof is in the numbers.
Talking about seating layouts and stuff is getting too off track from what is important here. Stick to the above key points, and you will get a decent outcome.
Don’t blow off course folks. 3 months to run. I feel like you are rocking the boat the wrong way.
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Thread Starter
Any EBA based on productivity for Airline Pilots is at best wrong and worst insane. Pilots should not be on a productivity based wage.
They should be on a time with the company based wage .
Any MCG over 60 hrs on a pay rate for Captains of less than $350,000 is unacceptable, un professional, uncompetitive and so low in the real world it is an insult to their worth.
As I see it , my financial numbers are a dream.
Pilots out there think 65 67 for MCG is acceptable, for a lot less than my K.
Why are some selling yourself so so short and are ok with VA continuing to have a ‘ lend of you ‘
90 percent of the pilots I fly with agree, they are so over the poor pay long flying and duty hrs , generally now at near max duty with min rest , poor food , no acceptable roster system and most Management who are in the many but never come out of the office to the aircraft to see for them selves what is actually going on with the product.
Those here who have a go at me , are either just plain dum and uneducated in business or may be just having fun.
Again I invite them to talk to me next time we see each other, I will. Yes I do know who u are , which is fine .
U have a right to your opinion and voice..
They should be on a time with the company based wage .
Any MCG over 60 hrs on a pay rate for Captains of less than $350,000 is unacceptable, un professional, uncompetitive and so low in the real world it is an insult to their worth.
As I see it , my financial numbers are a dream.
Pilots out there think 65 67 for MCG is acceptable, for a lot less than my K.
Why are some selling yourself so so short and are ok with VA continuing to have a ‘ lend of you ‘
90 percent of the pilots I fly with agree, they are so over the poor pay long flying and duty hrs , generally now at near max duty with min rest , poor food , no acceptable roster system and most Management who are in the many but never come out of the office to the aircraft to see for them selves what is actually going on with the product.
Those here who have a go at me , are either just plain dum and uneducated in business or may be just having fun.
Again I invite them to talk to me next time we see each other, I will. Yes I do know who u are , which is fine .
U have a right to your opinion and voice..
Last edited by farrari; 30th Mar 2024 at 07:40.
Excellent question. Why are you selling yourself short Ferrari? Why are you tacitly subjecting yourself these horrific T&Cs by turning up every single day??? You deserve better…. I know you believe that, you’ve said so!!!
You don’t seem to realise the great contradiction of your whole position and logic. “I know everything”. “I have the answers”. “We should be paid this and that” etc etc ... All said with such blind gusto and arrogance as if you are some how immune to the same realities and choices that everyone else is. But you aren’t immune, you’re selling yourself short just as much as everyone is.
Perhaps it’s time to dust off the resume and apply for the CEO role that just became available… 🧐
You don’t seem to realise the great contradiction of your whole position and logic. “I know everything”. “I have the answers”. “We should be paid this and that” etc etc ... All said with such blind gusto and arrogance as if you are some how immune to the same realities and choices that everyone else is. But you aren’t immune, you’re selling yourself short just as much as everyone is.
Perhaps it’s time to dust off the resume and apply for the CEO role that just became available… 🧐
Last edited by Biatch; 30th Mar 2024 at 11:33.
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While I agree some of the stuff ferrari says is extreme, $350k for a 180 seat skipper is hardly extreme when compared to the rates elsewhere in the world with similar living costs.
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Whilst Farrari may not articulate himself as clearly as perhaps he intends, what he is attempting to convey is largely correct. The day to day work conditions at VA will not improve and the only way forward for staff is money. A base of $350,000 for a captain would not be an unrealistic figure giving the responsibility and risk for the position. Whether this is achievable by the unions is the open question.
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There is no precedent for $350k base salary for a narrowbody cpt in Australia. Not even Q mainline 737. I’m looking at the QF short haul EBA and it states $245k. Given their MCG is 53hrs…
Further there is no logical arguement for $350k from the current $210k base now (@ 57.5 hrs). Even with the logic of an increase of MCG to 69 hrs bringing it to $250k on CURRENT existing T&Cs, how?? How is anyone able to argue for / justify an increase of $100k to the base pay? Again, I’d love it as much as the next driver… but in what reality is that possible?
The overseas arguement is about as valid as arguing that house prices in Aus should be the same as country x, y or z. So what?!? Different market, experiencing different market forces. I can guarantee you there are 737 drivers in a variety of corners at the globe that are looking at Aus with envy. The outflow of pilots has never been high enough AND long enough for them to worry about it. Further, the availability of ex pats looking to come home for their lifestyle / retirement has always been plentiful enough that the supply of pilots willing to come back on the apparent terrible T&C’s. That has always been the issue that drives Aus T&Cs down IMO.
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You lot are getting distracted again.
You have taken pay freezes and cuts to help the company get by, those days are over, so it’s now time to return to the 2018 agreement and adjusted for the time that has passed. So let’s go back to the old agreement minus the pay cuts and see what the minimum would be today…
1 July 2024. 69hrs. Captain. The figure is 290k. That’s on the lower end of the scale also, inflation is a tad more aggressive since that agreement so it’s really much more.
You have basically backpedaled a decade if you don’t go back to what you had. The ball is in your court, YOU helped the company out when it was on its knees (hasn’t it been for the last 15 years though), time to go BACK to what you had.
Virgin has a lot of FOs that have had delayed commands due to the sheer corporate incompetence from this business over the last decade. Think very carefully about what you are going to fight for, haven’t you put up with enough in recent times? Protect your future and final years which have been cut short.
You have taken pay freezes and cuts to help the company get by, those days are over, so it’s now time to return to the 2018 agreement and adjusted for the time that has passed. So let’s go back to the old agreement minus the pay cuts and see what the minimum would be today…
1 July 2024. 69hrs. Captain. The figure is 290k. That’s on the lower end of the scale also, inflation is a tad more aggressive since that agreement so it’s really much more.
You have basically backpedaled a decade if you don’t go back to what you had. The ball is in your court, YOU helped the company out when it was on its knees (hasn’t it been for the last 15 years though), time to go BACK to what you had.
Virgin has a lot of FOs that have had delayed commands due to the sheer corporate incompetence from this business over the last decade. Think very carefully about what you are going to fight for, haven’t you put up with enough in recent times? Protect your future and final years which have been cut short.
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mmmmm we’re having a conversation in the vacuum of space created whilst waiting for a tabled position to be voted on…
That number at least is arguable. It’s in the ball park of what the union are bargaining for… which was based on 2018 plus CPI. A rational, logical, arguable position….
1 July 2024. 69hrs. Captain. The figure is 290k.
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Thread Starter
Those here who are not across why my figures are not up to date with the mood of VA pilots , not up to date with the economy in Australia, not up to date with the cost of living, not up to date with what people are earning in Australia, not up to date with living a reasonable respectable and sustainable life as a pilot. Having both at work and away a comfortable and good life style.
I guess they are union delegates, if not they are plain dumb. How is our current pay and conditions fair realistic and competitive in the work environment. They are not, they are crap , working 70 to 85 hrs a roster to earn a fair wage is totally ******.
And as I have stated, my wage is time with company related , 350k is the time high end.
To them I say , my experience is VA pilots agree with my numbers and they want their respective union to do their job and deliver.
Thats what they tell me . And I ask, I talk to them, that’s me.
And is very interesting, those on the Union delegation once were very outspoken, now they are toeing the Union and Company line , why.
Yes I know why , again ask me not here but in person.
i want to see both the business and it’s work force successful , it can with the right CEO.
I guess they are union delegates, if not they are plain dumb. How is our current pay and conditions fair realistic and competitive in the work environment. They are not, they are crap , working 70 to 85 hrs a roster to earn a fair wage is totally ******.
And as I have stated, my wage is time with company related , 350k is the time high end.
To them I say , my experience is VA pilots agree with my numbers and they want their respective union to do their job and deliver.
Thats what they tell me . And I ask, I talk to them, that’s me.
And is very interesting, those on the Union delegation once were very outspoken, now they are toeing the Union and Company line , why.
Yes I know why , again ask me not here but in person.
i want to see both the business and it’s work force successful , it can with the right CEO.
Last edited by farrari; 31st Mar 2024 at 10:40.
Can you tell us how you get to 350k? You can’t just go any Management with random numbers. Even the union will give you funny looks. Stop wasting everyone’s time. Yes, everyone would love to be on such wages, but that isn’t the focus, the focus is getting the toys back that got taken away. The future for this entire pilot group rests on getting those toys back. I can’t reiterate enough how important this agreement is to the current and future VA Pilots, to who don’t even have a license yet. This is the most important negotiation I’ve seen for a long time, needless to say, the short to long term prospects for this group, is pretty grim if you vote in trash.
When looking at 2018 with all the adjustments to CPI, inflation and so forth since then, at the top end it’s 320-330. And that’s a miracle result. The acceptable figure adjusting for the averages that got approved in 2018, is 290k.
So you really want this 350k? If you get the 2018 deal back plus average increases since, you will crack your 350k in 2032, and perhaps even sooner. If you accept what’s on offer today, you will get your 350k in the 2040s
When looking at 2018 with all the adjustments to CPI, inflation and so forth since then, at the top end it’s 320-330. And that’s a miracle result. The acceptable figure adjusting for the averages that got approved in 2018, is 290k.
So you really want this 350k? If you get the 2018 deal back plus average increases since, you will crack your 350k in 2032, and perhaps even sooner. If you accept what’s on offer today, you will get your 350k in the 2040s
Last edited by nomess; 31st Mar 2024 at 13:56.
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