Zero training input,high attrition rate,loud,verbal TCs.
It may be in transition to a better place.

Seniority is everything at BA.

The bottom of the seniority A320 LHS isn’t worth it to me. If you want busy blocks of work out of base for 3/4/5 days at a time it’s great.

IMO the 320 has the largest gradient in seniority from the bottom to the top. It’s like night and day and why many (like myself) are happy to stay RHS for a while.

Hi,

what is the latest A320 course start date at LHR atm?

thanks

Hi! Which website do you recommend to train for the PFD and multitask exercises? Which one gets closer to the actual test?

Hi Phil! I’ve heard that Skytest or LatestPilotJobs are quite similar (not sure which one is better). I’m currently preparing for the Eagle test as well, so if anyone can confirm, I’d really appreciate it!

I used LPJ for my eagle test in Jan and it serves its purpose of giving an idea of what to expect.

Life as a junior FO
 

Hi, don't want to clog up the thread so I was wondering if any junior 320 FO's at either LHR or LGW could please DM me as I have a few general questions to ask about life at BA. I am not entering through the DEP route, rather in the future as a cadet through SPA. Thank you very much in advance!

How realistic is it to pair high credit trips together to maximise days off on the bottom of the 787 seniority list? This is for commuting purposes. How many consecutive off days would be realistic using this method if it was your sole bidding priority? Thanks

Hi, I've recently completed the assessment and used PASS (pilotassessments.com) for my assessment and found it very helpful. The PFD exercise is a lot easier on the real test than what you can practice on PASS and the Eagle test is about the same difficulty. Also, the forum is very helpful at PASS with feedback reports.

Anyone else currently awaiting their result and would like to connect?

Through a combination of bidding, swaps/open time, you'd manage it every now and then, although best not to be fully reliant on it at the bottom of the list.

The 777 has a wider variety of trips you can bid to pair together, including most USA east coast trips as a back to back eg. 3 day JFK immediately followed by another 3 day JFK/EWR/YYZ/BOS etc with no day off in between. These pairings are available alongside the likes of DXB/ABV/JNB/CPT/DOH/BAH. You'd typically end up with 4-5 days off after such a rotation.

Hey guys

Im not a BA or LH pilot either, so I dont really have an actual insight, but reading through this thread I find many people saying it can be tiring with junior triple rosters for example.

(They have every right to do say this, though. It is certainly hard work. Its still only my curiousity thats writing this. + I might want to join at a later stage since my countries flag carrier is non-existant anymore :( )

So basically my question is 5.5 legs a month that bad? I mean basically they are 6-8 hour long sectors with two pilots if Im correct. You get a layover after that, then back to base and two/three days off. So the actual working days would be 10-15.

With a LCC even if you are fixed 5/4 you will be doing 4 sector really long 10-12+ hour days. I mean, 1-2 am finish 7pm report time the same day.

Even with taking jet lag and other factors into account, I still think it is much easier than any other flying job.

But I want to see from someone who actually does it.

It is worth pointing out that this is MY opinion therefore yours does not have to match. I have never ever done it, so I dont have an actual insight as I said. Thats why I am asking this, so please dont take this offensively, because it is not at all.

Clear skies to everyone!

Ex BA, Ex Longhaul (747 and 777) comment follows:

Just to be clear I assume your “ 5.5 “legs” is 11 sectors….

Typically if that’s a roster heavy in eastern seaboard work that’s:
a day shift westbound, night off,
late PM local report for an overnight eastbound…
two days at base then:
another day shift out of base, night off,
overnight eastbound back….

and keep rinsing and repeating…

I agree it maybe doesn’t look like that many days work on the calendar, but the swinging from day shift- night shift -day shift- night etc very very quickly gets very very very tiring….so no it’s certainly not easy.

Hope that helps with the insight.

Thank you, it does help with the insight. I see your point, even tho I did not say its easy.
Every kind of job is hard in its own way, all has its perks and downsides. As of now I think that would suit me better, but who knows maybe I will say something different after trying it

Thank you. That answers the question and confirms my desired commute is all but impossible.

As someone who has done both, I can say fixed pattern short haul is many magnitudes less fatiguing than junior LH (and the SH days are nothing like what's quoted - many consecutive 4 sector days simply don't work, so over the 9 day cycle, (Inc 4 days off), my average is about 8-14 sectors total, rarely finishing after midnight, except during peak summer disruption). 85 minutes from my rural front door to actually being airborne. And the lack of jet lag and chaotic sleep patterns, is not trivial.

It does surprise me the precipitous seniority related gradient for pay and QoL at BA has persisted so long under UK employment law, given the successful tribunal claims which have bankrupted councils around the country from employees who claim unequal pay and terms for doing equal work/value added (and even more so given that NY and the like are both the most junior and the most profitable routes. The council workers shuffing paper or a bit of light cleaning 9-5 in a nice warm office, were judged equal with bin workers out in the rain at crack of sparrows, and freezing cold and knackered warehouse workers, so equating a junior FO doing 5, even 6, east coasts a month, with other sitting by the pool in Rio, and flying far less for more money, should be an open and shut case)! It is amazing that >2 year junior bods haven't already made a claim for back pay (6 years?), which would be both very lucrative for them, cost BA an absolute fortune, and bring the seniority and pay scale legacy tumbling down.

Just to clarify the fatiguing nature of those 777 junior trips, it may not be clear that they are 2 pilot across the Atlantic. I appreciate some other airlines mandate 3 pilots, but you will have at least 5 nights out of bed a month in BA on the 777.

Thank you midnight driver

I just thought that moving from an lcc to such a big legacy airline could be a breath of fresh air. Turns out its not really. So yeah it really needs proper consideration.
Less pay, the same or even more fatigueous rosters, just to be on the seniority list. After quite some time you have some control over it. Then you get your LHS just to start over with it. That means in my case by the time I would be in my fifties with better salary and maybe a decent roster. And then who knows what will happen in 20-25 years...

Just to add to the tiring aspect of the flying. At the bottom of the 777 roster you will be doing 5-6 trips a month and majority 3 day trips either to east coast USA or Middle east/India. Nearly all of those flights are mid morning/midday report, day flights. 24 hours off and then night flight back 2 crew. If you commute to work, that night flight back means that potentially you could have woken up in New York at 7am on a Monday, had some fun in NYC, reported for work to fly back departing at 7pm (12 hours after waking up in NYC), 6 hour flight back landing at 6-8am UK time, then your flight/commute back (20-24 hours awake sometimes). Now its midday UK Tuesday time so you need to have a quick nap and then hold on until 8pm that night to get a big night of sleep. 2 days off and back at it again. The pay I've been shown is good for an FO in the UK.

In reality its not as bad as above as controlled rest is a big part of mitigation and also napping downroute before report. You will definitely learn ways to cope but I just wanted to showcase how it can be.

Which is fine but it’s a big if you can get rest. Napping during the day in NYC whilst every police siren in the country goes off outside the hotel and then closing your eyes for 20 mins just before 30°W and getting startled awake from the SELCAL check. If you’re a night owl you’ll love it.

The posts above illustrate why being senior is now more important to many people than a pay rise, even quite a significant pay rise. Twas oft said that being a senior first officer on long haul was the best job you'll ever have and - notwithstanding the last few golden years of your command if you are lucky - this has never been truer. Once you get into the top half of a seniority list on long haul, or possibly slightly higher, you can start to compress your work into smaller periods with at least 3 crew on every trip. On months with lower work levels this can mean you only do 12-14 days at work a month and of those you're never 2 crew across the Atlantic. On months when you have leave or discharge a modest amount of bank you can work this can easily reduce to 8-9 days. This has all been compounded by the introduction of JSS of course.

It's little wonder that LHS 320 is now more junior than anything else. And plenty of people will, I would wager, delay their move to the LHS even on a LH fleet because of the detrimental impact to their lifestyle & health.