I have no dog in this fight other than to note how depressing it is to read that if I joined the UK flag carrier at 30 I'd be 45 before reliably getting control over my roster as a long haul FO/SH captain and age 60 as a long haul captain! That's just about long enough to miss a lot of events in a kids entire childhood. Seeing as I'm older than 30, it really doesn't seem to add up.

Is pure seniority dictating your roster/leave really the best way?

The alternative is "merit." Do you really want to open THAT Pandora's Box?

It is true that the top of the seniority on each status potentially has excellent roster control. It is not true to say no control exists until you reach the top 30% or 50%.

I can't help but think that strict seniority disproportionately helps those who've gotten in via parental funding (at least when the Speedbird Academy or FPP schemes weren't recruiting). It's very difficult to truly self-fund and get in before late 20's, the extra years gained by having funding available at 18 clearly help a lot in getting a good roster. Aer Lingus have 5/3 on the A320 fleet and AFAIK random roster on the A330 fleet. I do wonder if BA will ever be tempted to go mandatory fixed roster on short-haul?

It'll also be interesting to see how the aforementioned rumours of a new payscale develop, I did hear it suggested nearly a year ago that there may be the possibility of having faster increments for short-haul with a lower cap later in one's career but that doesn't seem to have occured, at least yet anyway.

Absolutely right. There are numerous ways of gaming the system to your advantage and I don’t mean via sickness. I’ve just dropped a trip next week to get me a week off, slid a single block of leave by two days to achieve 18 days off at the end of June, more leave in August that I’ve extended entirely legally (so will be having a very quiet summer) and I’ve barely worked a Sunday all year. I’m at 70% on my fleet.

(The secret is not being junior on the 777)

JSS is a computer programme. It therefore builds you the rosters you have bid for. The problem for most people is they have no clue how to bid appropriately, and the more junior you are, the more important it is to have a good understanding of the system. I was about 95% when JSS first arrived, and I have always been satisfied with the rosters it has given me.

There is now a swaps system and a swaps marketplace for people to advertise available duties in each base.

Exactly.

Certainly on LH from those I have spoken to with smart bidding you can have huge chunks of time off. Even SH. I didn’t get some leave I wanted but with some smart bidding a couple of swaps I managed 6 days off in a row before some leave plus a day after. Ended up with 17 days off in a row using only 1 week of leave.

Likewise for my August. 2 weeks off and will use reserve to get a couple extra days before leave.

That’s a very good question. And one that will continue to do the rounds at BA. Personally I don’t think the disparity between junior and senior is sustainable under JSS (current rostering system), and the way BA expects its pilots to patch over work coverage holes via poorly paid overtime also has a limited shelf life. Something is going to have to give as the current status quo is going to cause big problems with recruitment and retention - across every fleet and nearly every seat. Junior pay and rostering isn’t going to attract the numbers of pilots BA needs over the next 5 years and that’s me thinking very short term. Longer term if the world stays the same/all things being equal, there likely will be an even greater shortage.

As always, market forces dictate everything and the next few years will be interesting. There will have to be significant changes.

I shall add to this that if you are sub 30% and manage to mess up your bid by trying to be too clever you are able to build a roster that you hate but is EXACTLY what you asked for. Ask me how I know :}

Minded to agree . The demographic of the BA pilot population has and is changing and with that, less appetite for “that’s the way we’ve always done it”.

Equally I don’t think a perfect system exists - I’ve experienced BA seniority and no seniority, along with rotating seniority or rotating priority being used for leave and bidding .

BA is a good choice for those in their 20s….after that I’d say there are possibly better options depending on what you want (or don’t want) . And that’s before we get into the tax debate …

In general I think it’s still a good place to work, but there are also other good options out there that don’t involve being part of what some people might consider an outdated seniority system. Horses for courses.

A fixed pattern will not work on BA LHR short haul. Aer Lingus short haul can get away with it because they only night stop in 2 places (or thereabouts) whereas BA night stop nearly everywhere. Now if you take BA Euroflier at LGW as more equivalent to an Aer Lingus schedule in terms of night stopping, BA are indeed able to provide that fixed roster (albeit not a very attractive one from what I understand).

I think there will have to be a payrise at some stage, I joined and I'm not in my 20s, I was happy to do so and happy I know what I'm getting into. Many others in my/our circumstances though wouldn't have, and BA seem to know this. The Speedbird academy this year are seeking a record maximum of 200 cadets .. that tells us something. I do think they need to be careful on that front though, I have a feeling the "loyalty" of those to come won't match those that have gone. They may very well find they have funded ATPLs and given first jobs to a lot of people who just go off to the highest bidder once bonds are served.

For long haul, does the idea of “roster control” mainly concern working/not working certain days of the week/year or the destinations?

I would happily work every weekend and Christmas until the day I retire, but I think I’d struggle flying to the US East Coast five times a month for 10 years, which is the main thing that’s putting me off applying.

I’m 787 rated and would probably only be interested in a 787 (or A350) position, mainly due to the 777 rosters. However I assume that the new aircraft order means that the 787 will ultimately be swallowing up the 777 routes that make being junior on that fleet so unappealing, with more senior 777 pilots slotting in above.

If you’re happy to work weekends, your relative seniority in terms of which trips you’ll be able to get, increases significantly.

My experience seems to be that there’s more an acceptance on longhaul that you’ll be working some or all of the weekend simply due to the length of trips. Higher credit trips mean more days off so these tend to be more senior. Only the very senior can get them and departing on a Monday so you’re back in time for the following weekend!

Ironically when you’re junior, the relentless trip/2 days off/trip pattern means that you’ll get the odd weekend day off simply due to roster optimisation. However, you’ll either be too knackered to enjoy it or doing mundane tasks getting ready for your next trip!

I’m on the 777 with middling seniority. I found last summer brutal yet my winter was very civilised. I was flying the same number of hours (roughly) but the mix and efficiency of the trips meant I had a lot more time off and visited some lovely places. I’m desperately hoping this summer isn’t as bad as last summer because it’s not sustainable especially if you’re a bit older or have kids at home.

Ei also night stop all over the East Coast USA on the 321, with a majority of pilots getting a trip a week. So it’s certainly possible to have a fixed pattern with trips thrown in. Whether that would be popular with BA pilots is a different thing.

As already alluded to, comparing the BA short haul network, with its route network and nightstops, to Aer Lingus' far more limited network and lack of nightstops is a bit like comparing london bus to an airport shuttle service.

That's what I did. Took me 3 evenings. Absolutely worth it! I also did the same with EF and CF threads, as the process is very similar.

VISA SPONSORSHIP
 

Hi, regarding VISA SPONSORSHIP,

Yes, company has been lately offering part-funded visa sponsorship where they cover about £5k expense of Certificate of Sponsorship for 5 years and the candidate bears approximately £7k for visa application fees, NHS surcharge and biometrics for 5 years. This will be paid by BA and deducted from your take-home salary over a period of 2 years, and you have to pay them this even if the visa is rejected. So be ready to get £300 less in terms of money every month for the first two years.

Virgin on the other hand takes 100% sponsorship of the visa where all costs are covered and no money goes out of the candidates pocket, but at the same time bonds you for a £30k bond reducing £10k each year post line release.

An effective payrise would save them all these costs :E