Originally Posted by Ver5pen (Post 12054115)

Hi guys, I’ve read through most of this thread and I’m sure many of you reading this will be thinking most of my answers are already answered but if you’d be so kind to entertain me I’d much appreciate it

currently on the 320 (just over 2500hrs on type and in my very early 30s) as an SFO in the UK, at this point in life/my career I’d only be interested in LH DEP and that too on the 350. yes I know that is very entitled but it’s really the only gig I’d possibly consider switching where I am for and even then I’m on the fence so I’ve got a few questions

1) salary wise I’m on around £100,000 gross minus any bonuses and a ~5% uplift expected from next month. I believe that’s not a million miles from a year 1 LH FO? Is BA in a position where it’ll be giving notable uplifts anytime soon?

2) I know someone adjacently who has just gone from my gig to BA on the 350 but I’ve also spoken to a few who are still in the LH hold pool and some were offered the 320, what is the LH hold pool looking like realistically especially for the 350?

3) obviously this is like asking how long is a piece of string but do you guys think the Middle East disruptions are going to have much of an impact on the LH recruitment process or any fleet in particular?

4) how realistic/sensible would it be to think about commuting even as a very junior FO on LH? I already live in the south but one of the biggest appeals of LH to me is the idea you can commute and live anywhere (within reason) so I’d probably look to go somewhere quite distant (by road). In this vein is it unserious to consider being able to commute using BA/EF/CF metal domestically?

5) what’s the tempo like? I’ve got a mate that dos long haul in the US (earning silly money of course but that’s a different conversation) and he can go months without a TO/LDG and regularly does landing sims when his 90 day currency runs out. Is it possible to do that at BA?

6) what’s the culture like at LH? From the outside I’ve heard anecdotally of quite the barrier/coldness that exists between flight deck and cabin crew within BA, I’m not sure if this is fleet specific or goes all over now there’s mixed fleet. I do have a couple of friends who are SH BA who say they have some pretty lonely trips when they get a skipper whose not interested in socialising and the cabin crew are not particularly interested in being around flight deck outside of work. this is less important but still something I think about when I consider going from a place where nightstops are very rare to when they are the routine, I could see how that would get lonely pretty quickly.


I’ve always been on the fence about leaving my current employer as long term I genuinely do think it’s one of the best places in the U.K. to fly for but I sort of feel like I’m in a now or never position as I’d hope to be starting the command process here within the next ~12 months and as many describe it- those are golden handcuffs and I wouldn’t be willing to walk away from the pay or part time options that come with command here. Hence anything that might make my BA 350 ambitions unlikely within the ~12 months I’d rather know upfront and just give up on the idea from here on.

Originally Posted by White Van Driver (Post 12054141)

1. Thats the ballpark of where you would start. BA & BALPA are very shortly announcing a raft of improvements with a view to a unified pay structure. This will need to be voted on of course, but if it goes through it is effective middle of the year.

2. Not my area of expertise! I would say though, I find it difficult to understand why you would not consider doing a few years on a boeing first then bidding across to the A350 after your freeze, for the remaining 30 years of your career? I don't consider you as acting entitled - you have options and that is fine to know what you would be willing to move across for, i just dont quite understand it.

3. Sorry again not my area of expertise! I have my views about the war and how it might play out but i cannot say what this will do for BA's hiring in the next few months!

4. Very doable so long as the trial 3 days off between LH trips is implemented permanently. Commuting domestically is common and BAEF BACF BA are all one company for staff travel.

5. You would need to be super senior to get a line with such long sectors that you ran out of recency. Expect 3 or 4 landings a month is my guess on the 350.

6. I haven't found this at all, most LH trips are quite social. I can imagine it being less so SH as a min rest night stop in DUS with an 0400 show time for 3 sectors is a different proposition. Also SH swap out cabin crew all the time and it is common to finish the day with a different set of crew to those you started the day with, making a connection harder to establish. But LH doesn't have that at all and I've always found at least some of the crew are keen to do something.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Think what 80 year old you would have to say. If you do decide to give BA a go, there are a few hurdles to get over (wars affecting recruitment, the interview process, being offered 350) so i would advise getting going quickly so you aren't mid-process when your command comes up!

Let us know how you get on.

Originally Posted by bda321 (Post 12054178)

Why would you only consider joining for the A350? Is it a burning desire to fly the model? The route network? To have the rating?

From a quick glance at ibid, within the last year around 18 direct entries have joined onto the A350. For context, BA are recruiting at a rate of ~400 pilots a year. It isn’t impossible, but unlikely I think we can agree. From memory (as of last year) you get to say no to 2 offers out of the hold pool before you were removed from consideration. Insisting on long haul for personal reasons is one thing, insisting on a specific fleet whilst keeping them on side is going to be difficult.

I won’t duplicate white van’s answers, but just to add ..

2 - Nobody can answer that, not even recruitment themselves. I joined before the first batch of Speedbird academy cadets and got the call the same day as the email to say I was in the pool. Start date exactly 5 months later. That increased to well over 1 year for others when the SPA cadets joined Q4 2025 because BA will prioritise their training (they are A320 but their joining means others moving off of it and onto the 787/777/350). It slows everything up. I understand the bulk of their training is complete, no clue when the next batches are due. Point remains, a fleet specific wait time is impossible due to the fluidity of the game. They don’t work on fleet specifics, they see a spot, on any fleet, and match it to the next guy in the pool.

3 - Given the recent big announcements about new routes (non ME) I would say the effect will be minimal. They can very easily shift capacity until the situation settles, for example increased frequencies on already popular routes. BA have a lot of places they could fly to but don’t, where they would still make a significant profit. They simply operate the maximum yielding ones, given the limited number of airframes and LHR slot constrains. The capacity will very easily be moved.

5 - I doubt you’ll come close to the 3 in 90 unless you have gone long term sick or some other significant absence. Of more importance will be the need to be in the operating seat for 1 sector in 35 days .. that creeps up quickly.

6 - I find it totally depends on the destination. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the crew once on an east coast USA layover except for the bus back to the airport, other places like Lagos are great when you all gather in the bar for a post flight drink. The majority of cabin crew are professional, friendly and will take care of you. A minority can be a pain who seem to have a chip on their shoulder, but I stress the word minority.

Originally Posted by Potatos_69 (Post 12054242)

1. Probably a little under 100k year 1 but the pension will probably be far in excess of your current employer.

2. Lower chance of 350 but tbh 787/777 is a decent place to be with a wide variety of routes (350 only has a dozen or so of which a few you have no chance of getting for quite some time). New roster changes make the Boeing rosters not so brutal like they used to be.

3. Little effect unless it all leads to WW3 somehow.

4. Your roster will be close to triple 3 off rinse and repeat as a full time pilot unless you try to get some of the possible back to back flying that can give you chunks of days off. So commuting depends on how far away you want to commute from…

5. You’ll be operating fairly regularly and won’t have issues with 3/90 unless LTS. Sometimes 1/35 might come up. If you want to fly a plane lots, stick to short haul. LH is more for the lifestyle in comparison.

6. Night stops are what you make of them. If you want to be social most crew I’ve found are happy to be so long as you don’t seem like a !!!!. SH night stops are different to long haul as plenty of times we are on different rest to CC. If they’re on 10-12h rest while we are on 15+ they’re generally going to bed and sleeping instead of being social like we can be if not tired as hell.

Originally Posted by Ver5pen (Post 12054260)

being junior on the 777 at BA especially as DEP is not what you want to do. I’ll freely admit this is quite a sweeping statement but the impression has stuck with me

Originally Posted by Ver5pen (Post 12054260)

the consistent message I have had is that being junior on the 777 at BA especially as DEP is not what you want to do.

Originally Posted by clvf88 (Post 12054256)

I'd also add that limiting yourself to one fleet is, in my opinion, a mistake.

The LHR fleets all have their pros and cons ... but if you want to fly LH they're all good options.

Given the choice however, 350 would not be high on my list (small fleet, limited destinations...)

Originally Posted by White Van Driver (Post 12054270)

The 777 ….. has the carribbean out of LGW.

Originally Posted by RexBanner (Post 12054381)

(Also worth remembering the 4 local night MBTR is a trial no guarantees we’re keeping it)

Originally Posted by BobsCousin (Post 12054300)

I heard that warning a lot before joining, but in one year, you'll move up about 15% on the fleet seniority due to the large amount of hiring, which does already make a difference to what you can bid for. Another great feature, as others have said, is the size of the fleet, which means varied destinations and there really is something for everyone and all the pilots have different favourites destinations for different reasons.

Yes, moving from Airbus to Boeing takes a bit of work initially, but once used to it, it's a cockpit like any other and it's nice to have tried both and is much easier to learn while you're younger.

Also, as others have said, the 3 days off between trips has made a huge difference, mainly benefitting the 777 junior crew and we really hope it'll stay. Those saying not to join the fleet are probably referencing the sentiment before the roster changes.

Originally Posted by White Van Driver (Post 12054141)

1. BA & BALPA are very shortly announcing a raft of improvements with a view to a unified pay structure. This will need to be voted on of course, but if it goes...

Originally Posted by GEZUS (Post 12054800)

I would personally be very reluctant to change employer at the moment. With oil quite possibly heading for $200 and jet fuel spiking even higher (already more than double last month with supply not guaranteed if the straight remains blocked) this is not a time to be working your notice, or on probation.

Originally Posted by Propellerhead (Post 12054808)

BA hedge their fuel a lot more than US airlines, so it won’t be biting yet. Obviously if it becomes a full blown energy crisis long term then who knows. The Middle East is not a big market for BA compared to the USA, India etc. They’ve never been able to compete with the Middle East carriers anyway with their low cost base and government subsidies. And now there is a lot less competition on routes to India, Far East etc. There are potential opportunities for BA in this - if only they had enough aircraft, crews and slots. And the Far East routes are expensive to operate due to airspace restrictions - 3 crew now 4 crew and a lot more fuel. While the Chinese airlines go a direct route through Russia.