I’d say I wouldn’t join BA for the money as there are UK gigs that pay as well if not more. However, if you want variety and the ability to see the World I’d say BA is pretty much unbeatable. Try and rise above the politics and you will have a good time there.

If you want loyalty, buy a dog

Experience has some tangible value to operational efficiency and safety - loyalty, they couldn't care less (other than bilking on T&Cs without people leaving, out of some sense of misguided loyalty to a cold hard business)

But presumably the old scale PP16 captain would still be on way more than the new scale PP13 captain? Any idea how much more? Asking for a friend…

From June 2026 precisely £15125 more (in the given example). When comparing same pay point (16) the difference would be £4325.

Thanks for this steview, really helpful for those of us looking from the outside in :)

Please could you clarify what the £19k uplift means and who it applies to? From what I understand, a new joiner on PP1 would currently be on around 79k base.
Also, is there any other information you're able to share on the current proposal being put forward?

Thanks once again :)

I wouldn’t even be looking at these figures. There is absolutely no way that this pay deal in its current form gets past a vote. Balpa has underestimated the depth of feeling on this one big time.

Maybe, but in general I find that it is the membership that overestimates the negotiating skills of the representatives that they elect.

Interestingly there was no need to mix the restructure and pay rise into one. This is intentional.

In terms of predictions, it is a tricky one. I would highlight that more pilots are now on the 34 than 24 scale and in general the demographic is very risk adverse with a relatively recent traumatic experience on industrial action.

PP34 LH SFOs are getting absolutely Donald ducked by this proposal. Don’t count on their vote. It’s absolutely unanimous on all the WhatsApp groups. This is an awful, awful proposal from Balpa which creates even more division and does nothing to deliver on pay except for new joiners and a relatively small number of junior SH P1s. (Oh and ex BMI, surprise surprise)!

On the topic of keeping it relevant to those looking to apply to BA, some drastic changes to the career structure are being proposed, with some pay changes baked in.

Key differences of note:
- The 34 year Paypoint is now becoming a 29 Paypoint. The 24 year paypoint are keeping theirs (bare this division in mind when you read BALPA's statement at the bottom about unity).
- FO and Captain are now becoming Second officer, First Officer, Senior First Officer and Captain
- Movement upward through the above ranks will be subject to a review board and "competency based process", these are as yet undefined in their nature. This is a huge change as previous promotions (FO to Captain) were dished out on seniority .. and the command course was then yours to fail.
- Another criteria for promotion is "satisfactory personal and professional conduct". This is undefined which is causing a fuss as it opens the door of subjectivity to a previously objective (seniority) promotion order.
- Basic pay is increasing but variable flying pay is decreasing.
- Movement up the 29 PP is subject to a pay freeze at year 12 for short haul FOs and year 18 for long haul FOs. Any SFO who does not upgrade by these milestones, for whatever reason on earth, will have their respective basic pay frozen indefinitely. The only way to further climb the 29 pp is by becoming a captain. Even if BA have no requirement at the time then you will pay the price.
- BA are introducing a "Speedbird Compass" initiative, to address "behavioral blind spots" (ad verbatim) as and when they deem necessary among other things .. (now​ remember the arbitrary "satisfactory" performance required for promotions above and you can see where this is going, yes our union think this is a good idea).
- The pension as it is is based off the old (and more lucrative) 24 point payscale, even for PP34 pilots. This is being done away with for all on Paypoint 34 (everyone who joined post 2012). Pension contributions will now be tied to the 29 point paypoint.

It is my view there are far more gives by the pilot body than by BA, in fact nearly all are gives by us. It is my view this deal is clearly bad for the pilot body. I personally think it will still go through regardless, unfortunately. I will be voting no.

BALPA are launching a hard sell campaign over the coming weeks where they will convince the less interested/informed/bothered how they should accept it. Already today we got an email titled "clarifications", where they are trying to gaslight us into not believing what we are seeing and that we have got it all wrong.

As an example, this deal does 0 to hasten about a single paypoint. We were all going to be on a single paypoint (34) when the last 24 pp guy retired anyway. This stated aim of the proposal is not an achievement of said proposal.

Now .. from a BALPA email ..

"Lessons learned by pilot groups across the world are clear: one MSL and a unified pay scale are the best way for a pilot body to protect its interests. BA pilots have one industrial voice at BA, the BACC, and your support and scrutiny, have given us the means and time to present this proposal. Your support made it possible.Your BACC fully supports the proposal – we look forward to engaging with you over the next two weeks to explain why."

Gaslighting anyone? I am absolutely feeling gaslit. Time for the hard sell and to scrape it through.

Anyone expecting to reach a position of having a single pay point system over the short term is living in total fantasy land. The only way that happens is when PP24 dies out. There is no way BA/IAG would countenance moving everyone onto 24 pay points. We nearly went to war over this issue in 2012 with the BMI merger. BA were adamant back then that with the change of retirement age from 55 to 65, they weren’t prepared to suffer the increase in costs associated with people spending an extra 10 years at top of scale. I don’t think theres any amount of IA you could take to move them from this position now. So division will remain however this ends.

Personally I can see the merits in the current deal which would see the vast majority of people earning more money over the entirety of their career. There are of course, like any deal I’ve ever seen, aspects which I don’t like as much. It seems like I’m very much in a minority though so I wouldn’t assume this is going to get voted through.

It’s either this is going to get voted down or the silent majority are as silent as they have ever been. There is near unanimity on this from everyone you come across that it is an extremely poor deal.

Perhaps with the exception of PP34 FO’s who have no intention of ever bidding for a command, I’m not sure I quite understand why. But this probably isn’t the place to go into it in detail. It’s a shame PPRUNE doesn’t have an anonymous BA section anymore since many of us would like to discuss this but don’t wish to do so in the bear pit that is the “other place/places”.

Online assessment
 

Hi guys. Anyone can enlighten me about the online assessment? Tia

Anybody able to share how long induction, B777 type rating ground school last, and if they are mon-fri? And if asking and getting leave during Line training is at all achievable (beginning November)? TIA

I could not think of a worse time to disappear on leave at BA than during line training for an initial joining conversion course.

Do you really want the job or are you going Tom and Dick as well????

About 3-4 months, no and no.

It’s a bit like when pilots join and then complain about having to work weekends. I wonder if some of them actually know what the job entails?

To be fair, most companies ask if you have a holiday booked and try and work around it - subject of course to not delaying the joining date, you wouldn't want that.

I doubt much has changed in the last year.

They will ask you about leave booked but make it clear there is no promise they will match it. If it is that important then delay your join date would be the answer and let someone come through who can commit continuously during the training.

Ground school is 2 weeks Monday - Friday with an exam the last day. The sims are very compact with next to no wiggle room, you’re going nowhere here.

The only chance of getting away would be between phases (say between GS and the sims), ask them well in advance. I strongly advise against any and all leave during line training. It is possibly the shortest line training course out there and going away halfway through will bring the ire of the trainers upon you when it goes wrong on your return. Your flight training manager will bring it up if you end up speaking to them for whatever reason regarding your training and they will cut you no slack (esp the 777 FTMs)

It is 5 trips .. 3 “training” + 1 pre-check + 1 check. I regret to say BA do not “train”, they get you to do it and then tell you how you’ve done it wrong and they aren’t polite about it. A significant number, nearly all, of the trainers have never flown for anyone except BA and that direct entry understanding will often be missing. US, far east, Africa, India, Latin America .. all slightly different ops and your check may be the first time going to a particular region, 2nd if lucky. You need every bit of capacity spared going through this phase.

Just to add, the company are trying to put through a deal part of which includes a rather subjective (at first glance) recommendation for command process. Part of it will almost definitely look at your MOP history. MOP = Managing Operational Performance. Basically you end up in MOP if you do not finish any course within the footprint laid out.