UK to EASA
 

So I’ve been waiting for some paperwork from the UK CAA which has taken about a month longer than expected. It’s looking like I’ll miss the 4th of September deadline from the IAA to get and EASA licence conversion.

Are there any other authorities that are known to be quick with conversions?

Thanks!

Presumably your employer restricted you to a UK licence? That sucks. Everywhere I’ve worked (with G ref) has been happy with any EASA licence (perhaps wouldn’t all have paid for the transfer but they wouldn’t have objected ).

After Brexit 2021, will g-ref aircraft company accept the EASA ATPL holder applying for a job?

Does anyone know how the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet will deal with Brexit after the transition? As far as I know FR uses Irish reg aircraft in U.K. Those planes will have to become g-registered and only be flown by pilots with U.K. licenses. I guess the same would apply to any other operator that has a U.K. base??!!

Ryanair already has at least one G reg aircraft and last year, they had a UK AOC granted for this eventuality. With regards crewing, the UK CAA have already said they will accept EASA licences for up to 2 years after the transition period. Also, there is nothing stopping EASA license holders from getting a UK licence and holding it alongside their EASA license (again the CAA have said a simple process will be put in place next year). If done correctly, I can't see any short term manning problems for the likes of Ryanair.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it will work the other way round and UK CAA licences won't be recognised at all by EASA next year.

We are are almost certainly headed for a no deal Brexit. A European holding a UK license is one thing, but working rights (to fly a UK registered aicraft) will be another matter.

Not so fast....where is all that stated?

The current working assumptions for the UK CAA's Brexit stance are clearly stated here:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ee215f9787.jpg

I now can't find the text about the 2 year grace period, so I'll happily retract that.

There are some Q and As here on the CAA website. Close to the bottom is an answer about EU state issued commercial licenses being used on G reg aircraft...apparently just an online form is required to allow you validate and fly G reg. Admittedly "conditions apply", and I'm not sure exactly what those will be

Point taken about working rights though, that's another matter

airpasty

The 04/09 (today) deadline is for those pilots who require EASA continuity on 01/01/21. You can still apply to IAA after 04/09 and before 31/12 and the application will be processed but the exchange of licences may happen in early 2021.

Austrocontrol have a different approach where the application must be completed by 31/12/20, after which they can then no longer convert a third country UK licence. Last I spoke to them they advised me to look elsewhere as their current demand sees them busy upto 31/12.

Lots of states are honouring applications as long as they are made in 2020. There is no real way of speeding up the process by carefully choosing a quieter state as one of the major bottle necks is the UK CAA.

LorisBatacchi

Some operators with a UK base are requiring British passport holders to apply to convert their UK EASA licences to an EU EASA licence and will have them apply for a UK validation in January 2021 (and shortly thereafter, a UK licence which will sit alongside the EASA licence. ) This will allow British passport holders to fly both G- registered and EASA-registered aircraft based in the UK. I can think of one operator with a UK base that is doing exactly this.

The legal right to live and work in the UK or EU (as appropriate) remains a valid concern - the UK currently seems to be more flexible with regards to this question than the EU. We will see !

unless they already have settled or pre settled status which many many eu nationals will

Regarding IAA - are you able to link to any material which confirms that IAA will still process applications submitted after the deadline?

IAA website just acknowledges that applications may not be processed after the 4th. You can still try and see what they say!

Emkay

From an email conversation I had with licencing personnel at IAA

Q: Are the IAA still anticipating that UK applications received through the post on or around 04/09 to still be processed and issued with an Irish EASA licence in late 2020 / early 2021?

A: That is correct. Whilst the IAA will continue to process change of SOLI applications for UK licences received after 4th September 2020, the 12+ week turnaround of such applications means that it is unlikely that the exchange of licences will occur before the end of the year. This will obviously be an issue for pilots who need the surety of an EASA licence to continue flying in early 2021. For those pilots not using an EASA licence at present, the timings will be less of an issue.

The statement that the UK will accept EASA certificates for up to 2 years now appears here under the second and third questions. In answer to Q #2 we have "EASA has stated previously that it would accept third country applications from UK Approved Training Organisations. Organisations would need to decide whether, on the basis that the UK’s membership of the EASA system ceases at the end of the transition period and if there is no mutual recognition of safety certificates between the UK and European systems, they would wish to retain both a national and an EASA approval. The CAA intends to continue to recognise current (and valid) EASA certificates for an initial period of up to two years, but no decision has been made about ongoing validity after this period." and to Q #3 "Yes. your training will be recognised for up to two years after UK participation in EASA ceases if you are training with at an ATO or DTO located outside the UK which had their Approval Certificate issued prior to the end of the transition period and which continued to be valid during the training period.". They also now say, as Alrosa says above, that an "EU issued Part-FCL" licence holder will need a UK CAA validation to fly a G reg aircraft.

The actual rule seems to come from a statutory instrument SI 2019/645, Schedule 3, para 2: "2.—(1) Subject to paragraph 3, any other licence, certificate or approval issued by the European Aviation Safety Agency or by the national competent authority of an EEA state which continues to be in force or effective on or after exit day by virtue of Part 3 of Schedule 8 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, is— (a) to continue to be in force or effective on and after exit day for the remainder of its validity period up to a maximum of 2 years (subject to any earlier suspension or cancellation by the CAA); and (b) to be treated as if it were issued by the CAA. (2) This paragraph applies only to documents issued under Regulation (EU) No 2018/1139 and EU implementing Regulations made under it."

Slightly off topic but wondering if anyone could help.

the IAA have recently told me that they can’t complete my SOLI transfer since I don’t have any current rating. Apparently you need at least one current rating to have the licence issued and compete the transfer process.

Does anyone know any SOLI that accepts transfers without current ratings?

Pardon my dim question, but AFTER Jan 1st 2021, can we not apply to any other EASA Member State for an EASA ATPL and also run your UK ATPL in parallel?

Surely having 2 licenses (UK ATPL and EASA ATPL) is the best option.

Just wondering why people keep talking about transferring when this might be another option.

pea size brain back below parapet. :}

fast cruiser

My understanding is under EASA you can’t hold two of the same licence. So whilst UK are in the club you can’t have an CAA and EASA licence. Instead you transfer to the EASA licence.

however once brexit has happened you will be able to apply and gain a second UK licence.

it’s all a bit of a faf, and you need to be careful ratings don’t get lost etc.

fast cruiser

No one seems to be able to provide any clarity on it, more a "wait and see" which may very well turn out to be too late for some. It's my understanding though, that come 1 JAN you would no longer be an EASA license holder so from that point not able to transfer to another state (unless some dispensation is granted from EASAs side). It's a pity you can't get the ball rolling with the CAA for processing the UK ATPL, ready to be issued in early JAN because I can see that taking some time and creating a bit of a grey area. Are there any airlines that stipulate that come 1JAN, you must have a UK only ATPL, despite the CAA saying they'll recognise EASA for a couple of years?

It seems that, if you hold a licence now ith the UK as SOLI, then if you take no action this will become a UK only licence at the end of this year. As some say above there is nothing that says that after this year EASA will treat this as anything other than a third party ICAO licence and, if you wanted an EASA licence after that date you would have to retake all the ATPLs and take an ATPL skill test just like an FAA licence holder would. On the other hand, if you transfer your SOLI now to another EASA State your EASA licence will be maintained and the UK CAA say they will then issue you a UK ATPL on an equivalent basis.

According to the UKCAA website they will issue you with a license validation (if you wish to transfer back from EASA to U.K.) which isn’t a proper UK ATPL license. It’s unfortunate that politics once again are playing with the livelihoods of many...nobody really knows what is actually going to happen come 1st of Jan. All the statements I’ve read only use the term “may” at the moment!

Not being able to work in Europe seems to be a bigger issue than were your licence comes from surely.

Yes, the FAQ says 'can I be issued with', the answer says 'Yes' and then has the word 'validation' in it, which I think is new and for me confusing, older versions just said they would issue a UK licence. FAQ and response below. I do agree that it is now time for the UK CAA to come off the fence, stop saying 'may', and now tell us what they actually will do.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bf16fac3cd.png

Its cristal clear: UK people voted for Brexit, now it looks like no-deal Brexit, even being sorry for many colleagues, but cherry pickig never worked and also will not work in future, saying that, I am aftraid UK aviators without EASA licence will not work in EU, as simple as that, specially after the latest political actions regarding the intention of a no-deal-exit I am afraid none of the above mentioned "transition procedures" will work.

One will certainly be able obtain an EASA license in one way or the other, just like an FAA license, but it won't be of much help if you won't have the right to live and work in an EU country.

It’s all academic at the moment as there are no jobs anywhere, but thousands of unemployed pilots. Not sure if any license makes a difference at the moment!

Ehh just having ONE is the best option.... Leaving EASA is the stupidest thing proposed by Johnson..

:ok: Best advice given on this topic is by Alex who knows his stuff so stop reading the Daily Mail or Sun to get your Brexit advice. You just read it here on Pprune for free by a man who knows what he is talking about instead of reading all the opinions of people who "think" what will, should, could, has to happen.....

Of course, in an ideal world, but we have to play the cards he dealt us, and that looks like a UK permanent resident may be far better placed if they have a non UK EASA licence and cover both bases. How much that is so, depends on whether European operators put EU registered planes based in the UK (can they do that, but if they do, the pilots would need a UK right to work, together with an easa license?). And with a uk valuation, could the pilot fly a mix of UK and EU registered planes as they circulate through UK bases? (eg easyjet, wizz - not at the moment, I believe).

This basically sums up the conundrum for those who are sitting on the fence. Nobody knows how all of this is going to be resolved. Should Ryan, Easy and others decide to have planes being based in the UK(UK registered) and being flown with EASA licenses (although on a Validation) UK Pilots will rightly be up in arms. It’s just totally annoying that politics is playing with people’s livelihoods. I don’t understand why this Government decided to leave EASA when others that aren’t in the EU are happy being members? It’s going to cost the UK far more as we are just being shown with Galileo...completely bonkers...

I guess we can thank the 17.4m well-educated people who have no doubt performed thorough research and voted the way they did in 2016.

I don't think there would be any particular objection - PROVIDED said pilots are UK citizens, or have permanent right to remain. After all, there are several European operator's aircraft based in the UK already, flown by Brits on easa licences. What is beyond the pale is the advert I saw for a UK based crew member, who must have permanent EU citizenship. Errrr; No!

And why not? If the employer wants the flexibility to use a crew member with UK residency or dual citizenship both in the UK and EU, why not? I guess the pool is not exceptionally large, safe for the fact that anyone who relocates to the UK until the end of the year is eligible for protected status and eventually full residency. Same of course is true for the other way round. As it should be.

Even requiring dual citizenship is still a bit dubious under EU law with the UK still subject to freedom of movement/common employment rights. My understanding is that, prior to the end of the transition period, you can't specify/rule out certain nationalities for a job,so it's illegal to exclude Brits (especially for a job based in the UK - that's really cheeky, I'm amazed you think it's ok), and after Brexit, it would be illegal to hire for a job in the UK with no right to work there (which sole EU citizens probably won't have unless they're already resident.) My cynicism made me think they wanted a European citizen quickly based in the UK, so they could keep the uk job after Brexit, and move to Europe if required, or just a client preference. It was only one biz jet post, Gmail address. I haven't seen any European operator's looking for only Brits for an EU basing, no continentals! Strange that!

Hi guys, I am planning on going to Greece this Nov to complete my CPL/ME/IR. I am currently in the process of transferring my licence and medical from UK CAA to the HCAA and will hopefully be issued an EASA CPL/ME/IR early next year. I have done my atpl theory through Austro. I plan to return to the UK so based on the information given above I will get a validation of some sort to operate UK G-reg a/c? Will this validation mean a UK licence at all? I hope there will be no further training involved? Thanks

Joe le Taxi

Well, it is not as easy as that. Every brit born in NI has permanent EU citizenship if he so chooses. And that continues after Brexit. It would be therefore interesting to see a court case brought against that employer and how it is argued. Of course it would be much more correct to require permanent right to live and work in the EU for the job, as that does not discriminate based on country of origin (which is not allowed under EU law, no idea about UK internal law). Both ways to frame it, however, do not forbid those brits that have the permanent right to live and work in the EU to apply, and those are actually quite a few.

Indeed you might be right, it could be that they wanted a non british EU citizen to move to the UK to get residency (again, move on the 31st of december and that is still legal to get residency). However, if it is for a biz jet it might be that there is a high chance that the owner will relocate to the EU in the next years and does not want to rehire his pilots. After all, Euro clearing in the UK will end within a year and a lot of assets and the institutions that use and work with them have to move, financial services are, after all, not part of the current negotiations, everything about them will be unilaterally decided by the EU at their leisure and can be changed with 3 months notice.

I'd suggest you ask Tom Hunt MP, who (when he wasn't an MP) lied to my face in stating that he doesn't believe regulation will change when he was advocating political suicide.

Granted, he didn't know is that I'm a pilot when I asked him the question, however this was one of the few questions he managed to answer in a straight manner that night and he lied through his teeth, just like most from his political party manage to do.

Quick question if anyone can help please ?
Irish EASA Licence applied for from UK CAA one and being processed at the moment .
I revalidated my A320 LPC last week on my UK licence ..... how will I get this to my Irish licence now as all paper work has already been submitted ?
ie: when the Irish licence arrives the LPC on it will have expired although I’ve revalidated it
There must be many pilots in this situation so if anyone can help with the answer it would be much appreciated .Thanks

Not 100% sure. But your last check should be credited while you’re in possession of a UK license. I would contact UKCAA to make sure they process the information. The day you get your Irish license it should mirror your UK license!

Just about to do the process through the IAA also. But does anyone know the answer to the following; (last time I emailed the IAA it took 6 weeks to get a reply, so figured asking here would be quicker)

- Does my medical need to be valid? I currently don't fly on my EASA licence or in Europe, so never bothered renewing it last year. (I do have a current type rating on it)

- This may be a stupid question. But since I don't fly on my EASA licence and not bothered how long it takes to come back, could I just wait till next year to apply? I can't really find anywhere specific where it says that the licence will no be transferable to an EASA licence in the future?

Any info much appreciated.