For those saying BA is a European airline because it’s owned by IAG are missing the point. It is a UK airline for all intents and purposes. Due to the ability of other foreign nationals speaking level 4 English or better, there has always been more EU nationals working in the UK than the other way round. I can’t imagine there are more than a handful of Brits working for Iberia.

You clearly underestimate the number of UK nationals in easy and Ryan based in EUland (and not willing to go back).

I don't think anyone is underplaying that fact. There are many but not a greater number than the opposite. I've had the fortune (or misfortune) of being based out of 10 Euro basis, Stansted and Gatwick. When operating out of the above two UK airports, all you need to do is open your eyes and ears to see what percentage of the pilots queuing up for security in the morning are Brits. Less than 40% at Stansted and about 60% at Gatwick. Now granted, Europe is 25+ countries but the conclusion is obvious. Britain serves up many more pilot jobs to Europeans than the other way around.

No, they (both EU and UK nationals) don't unless they comply with national requirements.
The British people voted to leave the EU and stop free movement between the island and the continent, you can't ignore that.

CW247 the only obvious conclusion is that you can't extrapolate "data" from two airports and state they're valid for the entire country. It's like saying that FR has a lot of foreign pilots in DUB, so that must also be true for Cork. Furthermore, your "survey" doesn't tell us anything about the number of UK pilots in the EU.

All rather sad and avoidable had the usual suspects (politicians) not sold lies and vague notions of “reclaiming sovereignty” to the voters back in 2016.

We are now outside of Europe and we have to accept that. Many of our colleagues voted leave for quite understandable reasons. Whether they were right to do so will take years to work out, not weeks or months with the attendant short to mid term pain inevitable. I work for an EU airline but based in the UK with no automatic right to live and work in the EU any more. I transferred my UK EASA licence (as was then) to an Irish EASA one in summer 2019. There is huge uncertainty in our industry and it’s a real pity that the EASA issue could not have been handled way better.

Maybe, just maybe one day we will rejoin the EU but before that we really must understand how we ended up here in the first place! It goes back many decades and has its roots in the decline of Britain as a global power post WW2.

Nope.
They'll need to get a recognized "settled" or "pre-settled" status (which is subject to an approval/denial process) and in most cases has a time limit.

Any thoughts on what's going to happen with regards to work rights now that the deed is done? I currently hold a UK passport and an IAA license and I'm noticing gradually jobs are being advertised here and there across the European market. A lot of them specify "The right to live and work in the EU", how does one interpret that? Would that rule me off of being considered for a job, or would I be able to apply for the appropriate visas/permits should I pass the selection process. I have a slight bit of relief as I've held an IAA license for the last 3 years, however the right to work is a bit of a grey area as given the current circumstances I haven't really seen any UK nationals apply for jobs abroad so it is really hard for me to tell. Cheers folks!

You need an EU passport or a valid work visa in order to be able to "live and work in the EU", there is no grey area. A company would only be able to sponsor you for a visa, if there is shortage of qualified applicants for the job - hardly the case in current circumstances.

Try it and see and let us know how it goes. My guess is one of the first questions will be ‘do you have the right to live and work in the eu?’ to which the answer will be ‘no’. ‘Thank you for your interest Mr CessNah, good luck in the future’.

I’m being flippant because it’s the only way I can deal with Brexit - the the gift that keeps on giving.

Good luck

I'm going to state for my own selfish purposes that the only way I'm going to be flying any time soon is if our government issues an outright ban on foreign charter operators doing business out of the UK on behalf of UK operators. Mark my words, the usual social dumpers are already sharpening their tools to pick up the slack because the horrid one way trade agreement allows them to.

If you haven't read the trade agreement. Do so and then hammer your local MP demanding an answer...
EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement on Aviation with respect to “Leasing” (section 7, PDF page 232). In the text it is stated that :

“air carriers of the United Kingdom (can use) aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Parties”

“in the case of air carriers of the Union, using aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Union"

Backed up by a few UK owned airlines:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ness-to-brexit

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-b1802841.html

Does anyone know of any of the national authorities in Europe that are still accepting license transfer as they were pre Brexit? I hear rumour that some are still accepting a straight forward paper transfer without the need to resit the ATPL exams, but cannot seem to find any further details. Any help gratefully received.

I sincerley doubt it, on EASA's website, regarding Brexit they say this

Your UK issued ATPL license will no longer be valid to operate an aircraft registered in an EASA Member State as of January 1, 2021. Unless you were able to transfer that license to an EASA Member State before January 1, 2021, you will need to convert it into an EU license in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723. You can apply for that conversion to any of the EASA Member State competent authorities.

I hate to say this, but this has been a long time comming, you have had plenty of time to change it, its not like the local intergalatic planning office on Alpha Centuri.

Unfortunately some of us were unable to SOLI prior to deadline day due to reasons outside of our control.

I received this from the IAA recently, I can't find any other information about it online but may be worth keeping an eye on:

The EU has published this document: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...31(01)&from=EN
Part 2 refers to Aviatino etc and there is, somewhere in there, a section about equivalences re qualifications, licences etc.
Pour yourself a stiff one and settle down for a couple of hours!

I worked for a UK airline last year and as everything was very unclear waited with transferring my UK EASA Part-FCL ATPL(A) license to one of another EASA state. As I could possibly shoot myself in the foot and lose my job if I did transfer my license and then it turned out I wouldnt be able to fly G reg airplanes anymore. You simply didnt know. Was all hear say and vague statements. Even the CAA told me on the phone to wait and there would be a grace period when all became clear. Obviously not!

I am from another European EASA country and did all my flight training there and got my EASA Part-FCL license there. I changed my license to a UK EASA one as my British employer requested. No problem under EASA, right.

Now to KEEP my EASA license I have to do all the same EASA exams again that I already did in my home country, EASA state, before? How ridiculous is that? My license doesnt say anything else nor has been converted to a national license yet and says European EASA license on it. So does that then have any value anymore at all? And everyone who has such a license cant fly any airplanes at the moment as those licenses arent good for anything and basically expired. As when one would get ramp checked now they hold a non existing type of license.

Better hope there comes a solution for this soon.

There is a petition out there that might be useful and do something or have some effect.

Good luck with that, and i do mean it.

Currently the UK is doing quite a bit to antagonize the EU where it can, so good will from the EU, and it would require good will, is probably in quite short supply. Not to mention, that currently many business areas are hurting under the new rules and all are lobbying for change.

There was ample warning about the loss of EASA license privileges, i believe EASA published their first advice in 2017 for a possible hard brexit. Which did happen for services now. And that was clear from the negotiation direction of the UK since around a year ago, which is while some UK companies actively switched their pilots (and Flight Attendants) licenses to european in preparation for that, like the orange bunch for example did. Including some UK based trainers from what i hear, as it was quite clear from the UK CAA pretty early on that it would accept a conversion from EASA to UK licenses in the beginning.

It was all hear say and not solid. I specifically asked the CAA last November if they would accept EASA state licenses to fly a G reg airplane and they said they didn’t know what was going to happen exactly and was better to wait as there would be a grace period after it would be clear how it would all settle.

I couldn’t take the risk to lose my flying job in the UK due to a hard Brexit with me holding a flying license in any European EASA state and then not being able to fly a G reg. Nobody knew what was exactly going to happen.
If it means I have to do a few exams and another LPC so be it, but it is of course ridiculous.
My license was issued when it was fully IAW the current EASA rules and my TRE on the last company LPC was not even British, but an EASA state TRE. So what if that TRE fills out paperwork of an EASA state now for that same check ride?

My license is and says it’s an EASA Part-FCL license. It’s not a national license, yet. That a nation moves out of the organization doesn’t mean the license isn’t anymore according to the regulations. Wouldn’t that be discrimination? What if I would get ramp checked in the US or Asia. My license as it is now doesn’t exist?

It’s weird. And doesn’t seem right.

By the way, many airlines set up European AOC’s and all due to not being able to otherwise operate in both Europe and the UK. Not because they knew EASA licenses would be accepted in the UK. They separated the two.
My airline/ employer operates in the UK and Europe and didn’t know what to do with crew licensing really and separated them and also the AOC’s.

That was bad luck then, apparently the person at the CAA did not know what they were talking about, the CAA brexit microsite already had the acceptance of EASA licenses for 2 years on it by that date. Which is why so many, very well documented on this forum, have switched their license elsewhere, many to Ireland as the IAA apparently was very professional and fast about it.

Well, if flying a G-reg is the main point, of course there is no change for you then. The only change is when coming back to the EU, obviously.
He can still sign any EASA license. No idea about a UK license. But of course, a UK licensed TRE will not be able to sign an EASA license anymore. Same as an FAA examiner cannot sign a UK or EASA license.
Again: good luck, but hopefully ramp checker do know those things by now. And yes, regardless what it says on the paper, it is not an EASA license anymore, from the EASA it is a normal non-EASA ICAO license. Nothing more, nothing less.
I can understand that it doesn't sit right, after all, at the moment the UK has not yet diverged from the EASA rulebook (how could it? It is not a competent authority yet as it does neither have the personnel nor the infrastructure to fulfill all regulatory functions again). However, the UK did chose to leave the EASA, and that includes licensing. It was not forced to do so, it was a conscious choice by the UK negotiators. Services were not part of the negotiations since at least march 2020, and aviation, after all, is a service, which meant that all hard brexit advise was extremely likely come into force, as it largely has. Of course, a frank discussion with your employer probably would have alleviated the fear of losing a job, talking to ones responsible manager is often easier and yields better results than most pilots seem to think.

Hp.

Not sure who you work for, but if I read it right you currently operate Greg ac on a UK licence? So that’s ok so far and it would only become an issue if you went to a non uk airline.

If that’s not part of your current master plan then perhaps sit tight for a while and see what happens - it’s not impossible that there will be mutual recognition of licences in the future.

Bit of detail on TRE stuff. As EASA TRE I can sign EASA and UK licences. UK at least until end 2022 or expiry of my current certificate. Now that the CAA is going to allow UK licence issue to previous holders from (I think) Apr this year my company will doubtless ask me to do this for full flexibility. So, having surrendered my uk licence at the end of last year for IAA I will probably soon be going back for a reissue. Hopefully with my old CAA number.

Good luck

I totally hear what you say and agree. If I would have know for sure the EASA licenses were going to be accepted in the UK I would have transferred it in a blink of an eye. Thing is you just didn’t know for sure as Brexit was and is strange and not logical. There were zero guarantees. So what is the safe option then to assure your job?

It’s easy to look back and say what the best thing to do was. As always.
It is what it is though and I will keep my UK license and probably will apply for a European one as well as that should be doable as my written exams were all done in the state that’s still EASA. So theoretically and hopefully just an ATPL checkride and possibly a LPE and it should be good.

dh, I just want to keep my options open in times like this and it’s better to have a license that doesn’t restrict you to one country. You are right though. Although who says licenses will be transferable or recognized in the future again and when would that be? Everybody is good friends with the US, but that never really happened with the US FAA license as well and the UK has the same status as third nation now.
Maybe the UK will come back and say they will go into EASA again. If that’s possible at all. Time will tell.

In my opinion one is currently better off with an EASA license as then you can work in Europe as well as the UK, the other way around one can’t.

It just stays all silly how it’s all done, but I suppose that covers most of the Brexit dealings are. Unnecessarily difficult.

Do you have the right to live and work in the EU? Because I don't see how UK pilots will be employable with only an EASA license, or am I missing anything?

EASA UK licenced pilots maybe have been European citizens.....Just saying....

I agree with what Deltahotel said above. One more thing that I think is worth a mention in all this saga. There is one EU country that UK citizens have the right to reside and work in without any visas or hassle, and that's Ireland (and visa versa). I'm sure many are aware of that already. I thought maybe mentioning it might open up some possible avenues/bases of employment for UK guys. Cheers.

​​​​​​https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-area-guidance

Only problem with Irish airlines, in particular the large blue and yellow one is that they may still require you to have the ability to live and work in the EU (not just Ireland), which now rules out UK Citizens. Even UK citizens that were previously resident in an EU country eg Spain or Italy, don't have the right to live and work in the EU now, just that one country.

This whole thing will really need to be sorted out but can't see it being done any time soon until emotions have calmed down and cooler heads can prevail.

It’s almost a game EASA plays as a sort of punishment to the CAA and the UK. The UK CAA accepts EASA licenses still, but other way around they don’t.
No authority seems to understand why EASA doesn’t just recognize everything that happened before 1 January 2021. Instead they just make everything invalid.
Victims are all the crew in this case. I also hope they sort it out as it makes no sense at all and is bad for all involved.

It definitely feels like the kind of thing that could and should be challenged in a European court. By a disadvantaged European. It's entirety reasonable that someone from Europe who took their exams in Europe, did their flight training in Europe and took their LST in Europe with a European examiner (but was issued a UK licence) should feel entirely discriminated against. Or someone who SOLI'ed from French to UK who is now being told they can't SOLI back. Madness...

Anyone in this forum who‘s still waiting for his/her transfer from UK to EASA to be completed? Looks like due to Covid some CAAs are super slow with the transfer. And the UK seems to have moved the goalpost now and set a deadline for the 31.3.2021 by which the transfer should be completed. Does anyone else have the same issue?

Is there any truth to the rumor that EASA have agreed to accept EASA ATPL exams completed prior to 01/01/2021 for new licence issue?

UK CAA form 159
 

Mcflyer101

Better check with your new EASA state, I just got an email from the IAA after a gentle prod. Looks like the UK CAA didn’t email over form 155 whatever that is.....Dear Sir, Madam,

“Please see below request sent 12/09/2020. It appears we have not received the DOC 155 for the above named pilot.”

PapaEchoNovember

I wouldn’t say it’s a rumour. A group of us received it in writing from EASA after a few months of challenging the validity of them. They have now updated their website to reflect this change under the Brexit FAQs.

Thank you, I hadn’t spotted that.

Looks like this is geared towards CPL/IR students who completed their exams before 01/01/2021 rather than ATPL holders, if I’m correct this still means we need to complete the 14 exams to convert over as per (EU) 2020/723 and the full third country licence conversion process. (If the exams were completed more than 36 months ago, which I suspect they would be for most ATPL holders.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1e18790f96.jpg

This seems to be another victim of EASA unity. I know at least one authority that is telling me that the revised guidance is applicable for trainee pilots only and does not cover someone who already holds a licence, therefore not valid to go from UK to EASA. They claim this was direct guidance to the authority from EASA. I know of at least one OTHER authority that says this is acceptable and are happy to accept the exams for UK to EASA purposes.

With regard to the exam validity as per FCL.025, if you look at your screenshot at FCL.025(c)(2)(i), you will see that this point should keep the exams valid for the majority of ATPL holders.

Thank you for clarifying Let's hope common sense prevails. At least if we can get ATPL exam recongition it will give us the option of an EASA licence in the future, if we should need one.

Hey guys, Hope things are okay with you all,

Has there been any updates or new agreements for the conversion of UK CAA ATPL TO EASA ATPL, are our previous 14 theory exams not recognised and do we have to do them again in order to obtain an EASA ATPL?

Any info and help of how to obtain an EASA licence is highly appreciated.

Thank you very much.

This is what you can see on the EASA homepage in their Brexit FAQs: I am a holder of a UK issued ATPL and would like to convert that license into a license from an EASA Member State. How should I proceed?From January 01, 2021, your UK issued ATPL license is no longer valid to operate an aircraft registered in an EASA Member State. Unless you were able to transfer that license to an EASA Member State before that date, you will need to convert it into an EU license in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723. You can apply for that conversion to any of the EASA Member State competent authorities.
The description of that Regulation is:

Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2020/723 of 4 March 2020 laying down detailed rules with regard to the acceptance of third-country certification of pilots and amending Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011

Therefore it appears that no agreement has been found. Which is not really surprising that all of the 19 committees contained in the TCA have not been working until May 1st, as the UK was not willing to convene any of them as long as the EU had not ratified the TCA. There might be some work in one of those committees about that issue, but i see no real enthusiasm on the EU side in that regard as long as the UK is still not applying the TCA and the WA in full, see the arguments about the NI Protocol (WA) and cutting Jerseys electricity supply off (TCA).

747AC,

EASA have agreed to allow ATPL theory exams undertaken in the uk pre 1/1/21 to be valid for the purpose of obtaining an EASA licence. As of yet nothing further has been agreed but theres significant pressure to make this process simpler.

No, EASA has actually not agreed to that. The only exceptions is for student pilots who did their exams in the UK prior to January 1st. Some local authorities do see that as a blanket approval to accept all exams, but that is actually not in agreement with EASA guidelines at this time. Local authorities do have a limited leeway in interpretation of rules, however those could be open to legal challenges, not that i see a huge chance of those.

Current EASA guideline is:

The UK CAA is developing a simplified application and validation procedure for recent holders of UK-issued Part FCL licenses. Does EASA plan to implement a similar application and validation procedure for recent holders of EASA licenses?

Source: UK CAA

For the time being, there is no plan to develop a simplified application and validation procedure. Accordingly, any validation or conversion of a UK issued license should be done in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723