BA is a simple beast. You work the system as best you can to your advantage. You make your choices and deal with it. I work pretty much every weekend and take blind lines. My choice, I work a little less and use every trick I can to maximise my time off etc. I could have had LH or been close to the top of the FO SH list and chose my work but I took LHS and the positives and negatives with that.

I come to work do the best job I can and go home. The company gives my family a good income and when I have needed their support for a personal problem they have been fantastic. Training is very good but you only get out what you put in. BA is impersonal and that's good when I want it to be. I can however pick up the phone to ops and ask for a favour for a favour and it's then quite personal. Win win.

What's crap? Loads if you enter into conversation with some. I don't get involved (although for some reason I read this) and I am much happier for it.

Is BA the dream ticket? Not for me but the dream ticket nearly went bust, the good gig did go bust and the one that reliably pays but demands a lot from me is BA. Maybe that says something

As for the manual flying etc. You can do what you like just remember the standard caveat applies "don't F&£k it up"

I think there is a very balanced view above from my original post a page back. I didn't expect it to provoke such a reaction! For me i stand by what i wrote, at no point did i advise don't join just come in with your eyes wide open about what it is you want BA to be.
For me there was no Due Diligence as i was getting made redundant and needed a job! I always knew BA would be very hard for me due to the time away regardless of SH / LH as i have young children and a son with special needs so home life for me is hard at the best of times. I am also the wrong side of 40 which is not an ideal age to join BA, again this is my personal situation. I can totally see someone in their 20's / 30's with no children would perhaps have no issues at all.

I find LH pretty exhausting compared to 2 sector days due to the night flying and not being someone who can fall asleep anywhere! I would describe it as feeling like i have mild permanent flu most of the time unless i have a good 4 or 5 days off. Again this can be a very personal thing but i know many that feel the same.

That said i was and still am glad to have got into BA given the alternative was redundancy or forced part-time and for the security it offers.
The lifestyle that Monarch offered me over BA was better (for me personally) and was for others i know. I wanted to point out to those that may have rose tinted glasses that BA is not perfect .....but where is.

The differential between BA and other airlines is getting slimmer all the time why else would they have to go to the ME / Far East to get the numbers they needed. As stated above they cannot stand still and will no doubt continue to lower terms to compete, i think this contributes to the lowish morale within BA as the realisation that cost cutting will continue and things will be squeezed further.
To conclude join with realistic expectations, accept it will take time to settle especially if coming from a smaller company, you do feel more of a number at BA but i have also had great support from BA when i needed it with my son they really were great if you have a genuine problem...
You will be away from home and for me that is the biggest factor and i miss the lifestyle of being home most nights, I have had many conversations with guys who admit when they were 25 BA was brill now they are married and have children its a different job and if they could get out they would!
I have found almost everyone i've flown with at BA to be just like everyone else at my previous airlines, great guys and good fun.
If i could go back to Monarch how it was i'd go tomorrow ......but hey life doesn't always give us what we want! :{

Pork chop express- agree with you. If only I could have added security to my perfect job. A imperfect world.

Sounds like you know where fleet team is and they can be your biggest friend. I have always found BA have had the attitude of "what can we do for you" during times of difficulty at home. We are big enough as a group to look after those who need to support family due to accident, illness, injury or special needs etc. Often it just needs us to put our hands up and ask.

I would echo your points. BA is hugely unfair but it's not the fault of the company. It's alright but I have told a few friends who are LHS at other airlines not to come as they will regret it in the short to medium term.

The really great news for those here not happy with BA, is that one look at this Terms and Endearment section, show a number of other airlines are recruiting.

I imagine those in the pool won't be too disappointed with the prospect of a few more vacancies at BA, after folks move on to a better option.

EMB145
CPFC I hope?!!:\

Are you seriously grieving for monarch? A company that nearly went bust several times? And whilst I agree the work there may have been a lot less and "suited" your lifestyle; maybe, just maybe, the inability, or slow pace of change there has something to do with it's likely demise.
I've been in BA 17 years and I too wish I could go back to the workload on the 757 in 2000. 500 hours per year and a nice mix on LH&SH. Times change and companies adapt or die; I don't particularly like it either, but maybe in your case nostalgia is rose tinted?.
The trick in BA is to peddle on that hamster wheel for 20 odd years and not stress the crap you can't change, then hop off and enjoy your pension.(what's left of it).

I know it's hard to believe, but senior people joined at the bottom once too you know. Remember 9/11? Life as a bottom feeder wasn't a bed of roses as a new joiner then believe me.
If you don't like it that much in BA then why not rejoin your previous outfits? Or did you burn bridges there perhaps by whinging how you want this mythical dream job?

I met a chap who was on the same Ryanair induction course as an ex BA co pilot. More than one in the pipeline too, apparently, and not just retreads.

Have to confess that JS post strikes a chord. Whilst most of this discussion has been conducted in a mature professional manner, every now and then the BA arrogance poked its head above the parapet. Are BA SOPs really so good everyone else has to admire them? If CTC trainers think they are crap maybe, just maybe, they are !

The main points made are that BA may well for many be the best gig in town but for some it is not the holly grail. This is reflected above but none of the posters are hinting that they plan to depart.

JaxofMarlow I've spent a couple of years now listening to that guy (now firmly in the ignore list) denigrate everything about this industry (this goes back well before I got to BA). When he left aviation I thought that would be the end of it and we were spared his rubbish but no, he has continued to come back to pprune making more and more comments, which are purely intended to get people's backs up (and could never be construed as anything else) before I finally reacted to it.

Go back and look at some of his comments on the role of pilots and the nature of our job (and some in this very thread) before you judge the context of my remarks. Enlighteningly enough you'll find I'm far from the only person to have reacted to him and I almost feel like I've failed the test and given him the reaction he craves because of that but a forum for professional pilots should be above the kind of childish trolling that he exhibits.

Anyway, back to the topic of BA recruitment I feel.

Is BA the 'holy grail'? No.

Is it the best gig in the UK at the moment? Only person taking the leap can know. I am in BA, have been for 10 years. The first 18 months I wondered what I had done! After about 8 years I got used to it and sure enough, I now think it is great. (Bottom 20% of my current status)

Dont stress at what you can't change. Expect to be in the RHS for at least 10 years. Enjoy the lifestyle.

If you expect either a quick command, to be home every night, or to be anything other than a number, you will be disappointed. If on the other hand you are prepared to work hard and be happy to leave the complete mess that LHR is behind you when you leave the car park, then you will survive it.

One thing is for sure, this industry isn't what it used to be.

ATTCS..... It is the 10 years to command that causes most concern when you already have 10 years under your belt.

I think you have to work on it being 10-12 years for LHS. Last year was abnormal and a large number got early commands on SH. I don't think it will be repeated like it was because all those new commands will have a 5 year freeze. Retirements are not in any significant number and the fleet growth is fairly flat over the next 4-5 years.

The grass is greener at BA it's just our brown patches are in different places. A friend of mine is a captain at a LOCO and he is happy with his deal. Yes there are issues which are different from BA but he earns a better salary and is home each night. He decided BA was not for him and he is probably right. As for me I have learnt the skill of ignorant bliss and I feel fortunate to fly for BA with all its rights and wrongs. If you take it back to basics the job that pays fairly/well or "market rate" and continues to do so is a good one.

Jax - just to let you know I do plan to depart. Will be rejoining my old outfit in the spring. No complaints at all about BA. It was my choice to give up my command and go to BA. It was a gamble and I haven't enjoyed it. Have no grumbles whatsoever about anyone in the company or gripes about SOPs and the like. It's BA's train set so who am I to question it? Over and out from me.

Edited to add that no one I met in the company has been arrogant - contrary to some posts on here. Training was top notch, very fair and relaxed.

Tommytailwind

Great post!

I am genuinely pleased that folks can come and take a look at what BA is like ON THE INSIDE! Then go back to their previous employer. My best friend in life did exactly that, and I understand his reasons for returning to the big orange! Everyone's happy! Even the person able to move into his vacancy!

Lot's of comments I could address here, but hey the warm beer, open fire and (non flying!!) friends are calling!

One thing I won't accept though is this. People paid by a customer to teach new joiners the customer's SOPs are unprofessional if they are calling their customer's SOPs, rubbish! They are also speaking from a position of ignorance if they've never used those same procedures in anger.

There's no more wrong with BA's SOP's than are wrong with anyone else's.

That unprofessional and ignorant behaviour definitely needs feeding back to the customer. So thanks for that.

Aviation is a cyclical business. Seven years traditionally from peak to peak. Trough to trough. (With other factors in the meantime!) Make sure you're standing by a good chair when the music stops!!!!

Everyone is looking for different things and BA may not be for everyone, I am ex military and ex loco captain / training captain and TRE and personally I enjoy BA, I joined 2 years ago at 46 and am a commuter on the minibus fleet, I get one of my top 10 choices every month and get on average 12 days a month at home (in EDI) that said I do bid for llong tours.

I believe that you could pilots in a pub with free beer and free lap dancing (or whatever our female colleagues would prefer!) and as a workforce we would complain as we want lager not bitter and blondes not brunettes...., it's human nature to always think the grass is greener elsewhere.

As an aside I was one of the first to go through CTC, on one occasion the instruction was so bad we (my sim partner and I) stopped the sim ( wrong technique for an EFATO being taught combined with an extremely aggressive attitude for the instructor) he had also spent most of the time slagging off BA and their SOPs so some people may have a bit of a chip on their shoulder.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that experienced this! I was starting to wonder whether it was just me! I reported it to BA at the time and they said they would speak to CTC. I never heard anything back in that regard.

For me, joined 6 years ago on the 320, far and away best airline I've worked for in terms of work/life balance (worked at two others), now occupy the left seat, have done for 18 months, and still enjoying it! Europe in the summer is fabulous! But then again I'm a positive chap! I do fly with "moaners", who generally just have a negative view on life. BA is NOT a nirvana, how could it be? Nowhere is, but it is better than anywhere else, with so much choice on offer! It's a career job.

As an aside, I'm on blindlines as I'm 88% from the bottom of the C320 list, at stage 1, had the last 3 weekends off, do bugger all flying (50 hours a month). Swapping is easy, as long as you've something to offer the other person.

How does it work with Easyjet Trainers at CTC then. Surely they must be ex Easyjet TRE's.

They are generally self-employed consultants as I understand it. Certainly a few guys at my airline are "BA checked" and teach BA pilots at CTC. I flew with one a few weeks ago who said they are also required to go through a standards check with a BA trainer before being let loose at CTC, presumably to avoid situations like EMB describes.

Icanseecearly: Good for you, I would have walked out too - far too many people are putting up with sub-standard instruction at CTC.

Been in two years, BARP, PP34.

Never missed an important family occasion, earn good money, rarely fly at night, home almost every evening and I'm on a run of 11 weekends off in a row.

Not sure about sounding indignant, but I am certainly happier with my life now than I was before joining BA!

I have to echo Stocious. Been in just over 2 years, right place right time and now I'm LHS Airbus. Home pretty much every night and being paid 30% more than my previous LHS role. Can't complain, with at least two weekends off a month.

I doubt anyone else will get that lucky, it's no wonder your happy but realisiticly people joining now are not going to have the same experiences as you!

I've no doubt, that's precisely what stocious would have been told 2 years ago too!

Just as easy to say, don't join Monarch, as the future's not bright!

Any 'prediction' in this business, is no more than a guess.

I see what your saying and predicting along time in to the future is pointless. But it is fairly clear that for at lest the next few years recruitment will be a fraction of what it has been over the previous, meaning movement up the lists will be much slower so weekend work, nights away and slow command times are a fact of life for any new joiner. Anyone joining 2 or 3 years ago was joining at the begging of a massive wave of recruitment so I doubt they were told the same thing.

For the comments from before that said "If you're based abroad, say in the ME and want to come home, BA would be like a dream." I would just like to say that the wanting to come home bit would be the important part. In Dubai at least, car parking and bus is not of any consequence (chauffeur drive both ways) and the money is excellent despite what's trotted out elsewhere on this forum :) the truth is that everything is a compromise indeed, and the culture may not suit everyone. As an expat I feel much more at home here than I do in the UK. It's simply a matter of what's important to you.

Excellent post African Dude. As a BA pilot, I like it at BA, but I do fly with some pretty miserable people, who moan quite a lot (and not just the ex-BMI folks!).

I hated my last airline, some people loved it. Personally I'd rather look at the sun through a pair of binoculars than fly for the Arabs. But some folks love it.

no sponsor - Do you have a problem with the Arab airlines or the Arab people?

Bloated Stomach, that's not really relevant to this thread, however, having spent many years in the Middle East, I prefer the hard won employment rights and judicial rights we enjoy in European airlines which are absent in those countries.

Enzo I think you're somewhat overstating the case of a trickle of recruitment. Recruitment was always plannned to slow down in 2017. You've basically discounted the fact that retirements stopped for ten years in 2006. They're now going to return to normal and make no mistake there is a bulge. Add to that the fact that many senior guys are also preparing their notice because they can't go part time. I think the non award of part time is part of a company strategy to rid itself of a few of the PP24's out there.

It (recruitment) may not be 350+ (and certainly not this year) but it's not going to be a trickle either. There's only 100 or so people joining the company this year but bear in mind that ALL of those people are going to be on the airbus, meaning that all existing A320 P2's will move up the list 15-20% by this time next year. That's not far off what this year's new joiners on the airbus achieved in 2016, because this year there were significant numbers onto other fleets too.

Yes us Airbus P2's won't be moving up the Master Seniority List as fast but what ultimately matters to your quality of lifestyle in the short term is your seniority in your seat/fleet.

And of course nobody knows how JSS (the new rostering system) will work out, or how that will affect the 'satisfaction gradient'.

And I DO mean, NOBODY!

Anyone have an upcoming sim assessment in January?

Has recruitment opened again? Did I miss something?

I'd guess there are still people trickling through- probably all 320 rated and about to jump over people who've been in the pool 8 months ;)

Definitely slowed down a lot this year though. I'm 320 rated and have been told to expect to hear nothing until late 2017/early 2018.

Indeed might be some rated folks being assessed. Maybe anyone can shed some light on the recent intake of sim candidates. Still hopeful on a phone call sooner than later, seeing as my sim buddy is starting in 3 weeks (though he is rated 320...) Fingers crossed!

As I understand, the January sim assessments are for the final few candidates from the interviews held in 2016. Unfortunately I have no idea when recruitment will start again.

Good luck to those heading to the sim this month!

Chaps/chapettes,
Just for context around where I might sit in the scheme of things, when did you do your sim assessments? Saab0409, did you come through the long haul recruitment campaign this time last year, or through the short haul that started mid-year last year?

FACoff - when/from whom did you hear that? I've literally had nothing official since the congratulations email, and have only gleaned from others that start dates for rated swimmers might be around July.

Cheers.