Agreed, but we have been here before when eMaestro was introduced, what, a decade or so back? Given the current state of play excluding the "whim of the person" in management seems to be the big problem..

Just out of interest, is there an issue with overtime or is there no overtime payment with BA? We have serious limits on my outfit on swapping because of course some try to maximise overtime while others try to maximise leasure time.

O/T is paid at a rate of 1.25 so isn't particularly appealing to many! Certainly when they are desperate the offer of Clash and Protect is there which basically means you go on a trip earlier than the one you were rostered often over a weekend but you keep the credit for the trip that you've been clashed off so essentially you are paid twice which is lucrative if you can get it.! (Hope that makes sense)
It has all but dried up on the 744 in the RHS this year it could well be there on other fleets though but its best not to count on it as its not consistent generally.
:ok:

That may be. However, I recently met a 747 captain who earned £100k IN OVERTIME last year. I believe he is full time??

I don't think he bothers too much with emaestro, but his name is well known to those who 'matter'!

Clash and Protect is the secret!

Yep they are not over crewed with Capt's like they are FO's (currently on the 744 sure this could change) so plenty in the LHS are still able to Clash, as someone joining in the RHS i wouldn't count on it. Last year i did 300hrs this year I've done 45hrs!!!:{

Thanks for the answers. Guess our overtimes rates are quite different.

Overtime is paid at 1.25 x NCP however NCP is considerably less than your normal hourly rate. Overtime is incredibly cheap for the company unless you start getting into the realms of clash and protect which is what has enabled the above Captain to do so well. However, the days of clash and protect are pretty much over. The company obtains incredibly cheap forced overtime through bank withdrawal with immediate pickup of the withdrawn trip, and also through the roster assign process as previously discussed.

Any other guys/girls in the pool heard anything recently for 320?

I recently checked the website PPJN for pay scales and information on British Airways. Someone has updated the information stating that BA will require 300 DEPs for 2017. Does anybody know if there is any truth in that figure? I saw the figure of 170 DEPs quoted on this website.

Alanrobins01, the investor day dust is still settling and we are waiting for the publication of the internal bid results which are over a week late. Some more info may come out then.

I think someone updating ppjn has his numbers confused. There has been no discussion of 300 required in 2017 and the last we heard was that it was a slow year for recruitment. 2018 now that's a different story.

Thanks overstress and RexBanner for the info.

Been in the hold pool a while. Staring to get abit worried about what's going on. I believe I'm near the top of the list. Does anyone know what's happening/any info on what the intentions are on people in the hold pool?

Ea300, hold your horses, keep treading water :)

The very latest news (today) is that there is no news. Any internal promotions/postings in 2017 will only be generated by part-time applications and retirements, the person processing this info has said this will not be finalised until December.

Thanks for the info.

So what does that mean for guy like myself?

There'll be A320 courses for sure, so if you're near the top of the pool then it is just a matter of time. However, reading between the lines from yammer, direct entry long haul may be close to non existent in 2017.

How long are swimmers waiting before being offered A320 courses at the moment? And is route into the pool a factor? Answers might help to gauge whether I'm near the top too. Thanks

Or alternatively why not just pick up the phone and ask them?

They have specifically asked not to do that. Hence why I'm on here.

Not wishing to contradict you - as obviously you are more aware than I of what you have been told - but I know of at least two people sat in the hold pool right now who have been directly told their status by the recruitment team.

If you contact the recruitment team they will be able to tell you your number in the pool.
As to when you are are pulled out the pool they probably won't be able to answer or won't commit too.

Rex when you say 'almost non-exsistant long haul recruitment' can you elaborate on what was said at all?

RexBanner,

Thanks for the info, I/we are expecting an update this month. I will see what they say in that communication first.

I suspect Rex is hinting at the fact that according to some sources there might be several long haul fleets which are not expecting to take internal transfers to the RHS this coming year. If that is indeed the case like Rex I also suspect there are going to be few if any opportunities for DEP recruitment to those fleets and probably, given internal demand, quite possibly only in house transfers to the few long haul fleets where there are projected vacancies.

FWIW it also looks like some form of normality has returned to the time scale for shorthaul commands.

I was offered and accepted a short haul position mid last month. I was in the long haul pool but due to circumstances was happy to accept short haul. From what was mentioned it definitely seems as though there will be very few DEP LH offers made. I was swimming for just over 6 months! Good luck to everyone waiting, hopefully it won't be too long.

We'll see, there's always the overiding caveat of training capacity, and behind the scenes costs. OTOH given demand for Long Haul from internal candidates who either missed out last year or who have have exited their freeze periods in the twelve months even if the projected "closed" fleets suddenly have projected vacancies my guess is there will be much less demand/need for DEPs direct to Long Haul.

My best guess if you're in the pool I'd certainly be planning for Shorthaul.

Short Haul is nowhere near as bad as some on here make out. That's also coming from a commuter.

There will be no LH DEP recruitment next year.

When you say "...no LH DEP recruitment...", do you mean those in the pool will not be offered long haul positions, or there will be no further advertisement for LH openings?

Such a shame if this is the case after all the hype with very large recruitment numbers being banded around the place.

Perhaps they should have advertised for one position as opposed to separate "LH and SH" vacancies.

There's sure to be a large number of disappointed LH swimmers (particularly swimmers hoping to commute) if this news is true.

Thanks for the updates though.

Regarding timescales to SH commands. I presume this might be due in part to the lack of internal transfer of FO's from SH to LH in 2017. However with the recruitment and LH Airframes arriving from 2018, the sudden requirement for quick SH command upgrades could occur again?!

It's amazing how quickly things change. It wasn't so long ago that BA were in DXB trying to tempt widebody guys.

Hopefully 2018 is a better year
for LH DE recruitment.

Didn't they go to HKG as well?

Does seem odd to specifically try to attract guys to long haul, and then say the year your in the pool there will be no or very little recruitment.

Will wait and see what 2018 brings, but if you are already in the pool will you not expire before then?

I think the issue is the fact that BA have potentially recruited for jobs that, if this thread is correct, don't exist.

I think that's a touch harsh Plastic787. People have applied for a particular job, there is no sense of entitlement other than for the specific job they applied for.

As for bypassing people, I am sure that the overall master seniority list see's to the fact that no bypassing has taken place. Very few people join BA not seeing it as a "final" job so surely everyone ends up where they want and it's just a case of how much seniority you have when you get there? I can completely understand people being upset if they have seen out their freeze and can't get the positions that are being given to DEPs, but I am unsure as to if that's actually happened? As for those in their freeze, surely they knew that when they joined so wouldn't expect to be entitled to change fleets before that's complete?

Sadly I don't think there was any such think as a guaranteed job in aviation, let alone guarantees of promised positions, at any airline.. there's a limited number posts and there's the prickly issue that an increasing number of current BA employees have got the seniority for those "jobs"...

FWIW:

Up until recently as we all know there was a need for a lot of recruitment at BA, as we know most entrants went onto the A320. No problem there.

As far as filling Long Haul seats that was a bit unusual (in terms of numbers). Because of type freezes for those recruited to Short Haul at the front end of the current recruiting bulge, and the company's reluctance to release individuals early from their freeze periods (on the grounds of lack of training capacity) the company could "legitimately" deny internal transfers from those wanting to leave Short Haul and recruit DEPs direct to LH without busting agreements. Obviously some feathers were indeed ruffled (as witnessed in a previous post) and I have to say I can sympathise with the POV of those who suffered as a result.

Fast forward twelve months and even more BA P2s have exited their freeze periods and have entirely legitimate expectations of being slotted into the established process for conversion to a Long Haul type. There's a lull in deliveries - the A380 Fleet is now (I think) fully established, the only new Long Haul hull due in the year is a single 787 ...chuck the newly revealed business plan into the mix and suddenly it appears that there aren't going to be anything like as many vacant Long Haul RHS next year as there were this year. As a result it's going to be very hard for management to justify large numbers of DEPs leap frogging onto Long Haul ahead of existing time served/freeze served BA P2s. In conclusion I'd expect the vast vast majority of LH slots next year will go to existing BA P2s..there's no shortage of internal bidders. That doesn't mean there's no possibility of DEPs direct to Long Haul...but IMHO if it happens it won't be offered in significant numbers.

Of course you can never say never, there might be a sudden change of fleet plan, the next run of the "system" might chuck up shortages...but at the moment this does look like being a relatively slack year...

Julietsierra6 May I ask when you did your sim assessment?

I doubt it will make much difference to internal bidders / external recruitment but I personally know two recent joiners to the company on long haul who are returning to Ryanair in the coming few weeks

That's not even the most shocking one. A couple used their right to return to go back to Monarch recently.

Some good posts here recently. I even agree totally with the frustrations probably experienced by SH Fo's being leap frogged by DEP's to LH positions. As wiggy explains though this is just the way of the world really. In my airline there are guys joining as DEP's getting their base from day 1 along with going onto a contract where they're employed directly by the airline. I'm 8 years in and still don't have either.

However I like to think I'm sensible. I did apply via the LH application, and this is my third attempt.. I'm more than willing to accept basically anything they offer me in any base. I'd hate to sink in the pool and am hoping that now I've let them know I'd accept a SH position that i will be offered one at some point.

I also heard the pool duration might be extended to 18 months although of course I've no idea if this is true.

Yes it is.

One of the team involved in recruitment tells me there about 80 odd in the hold pool which will satisfy all BA's needs for 2017. Add this to the recent information out from the postings and promotions department stating that next year recruits will be onto A320 at LHR/LGW.