I have been flying for well over 10 years now. For nearly all of that a seat at BA was the dream. Then when it became a reality I chose to stay and move left at my LCC. I am so so glad i did. The corporate greed highlighted by Rex is destroying the brand from the inside.

For those "anchored" in the south east UK maybe, for those elsewhere I'm not so sure and I do think the company needs to be careful..

One or two some of the relatively new joiners I have flown with in the last year have already done homework and have made some interesting plans involving
work outside the UK..We've certainly ended up having conversations you would never have heard at BA even 5 year ago.

Maybe it'll end up like mixed fleet model - lots of churn...

[QUOTE=pudoc;10330424][/QUOTE
Basically bringing shorthaul in line with the worst aspects of Easy/Ryanair and Longhaul with the likes of longhaul charter flying without the seasonal variation and so will be relentless without the pay. The company are monitoring sector swaps (long haul shortening of trips, so another can extend by a day or so) hence a 24 hour slip in LAX, NRT etc. Unfortunately he has seen individuals doing it without complaint. I've been in 14 years and my advice would be, consider very carefully work/life balance. The unions' effectiveness has been discussed on here previously.

I agree Wiggy. BA will be aiming to employ the efficiencies of the mixed fleet model. They cannot give us short haul and long haul, but they can ensure we get a mixture low credit 3 day trips and high credit 3 day trips so we are all up at 900 hours, but not before the end of the year for some and unattainable for others (as currently happens).

Wiggy just described verbatim what happened with us at Cathay years ago one of the many times they pulled the wool over our eyes.

If the 24h LH stopovers becomes a reality I’ll leave the company. Aeroplane 12hrs, Hotel room 24hrs, aeroplane 12hrs is a grim existence (granted not as grim as current situation SH 12hrs aeroplanes, 12hrs hotel room, 12hrs aeroplane and repeat) and not why I joined BA. I get the argument that a couple of days downroute somewhere nice gets ordinary after a while but the alternative would grant me zero job satisfaction. For a £2b profit company why can’t they just accept some hotel bills, look after crews wellbeing by a less fatiguing/more sensible roster by hiring adequate pilot numbers rather than just some well-being posters up in CRC. Another lb of flesh. That ‘recognition’ gala video nonsense that appeared in my inbox was vomit inducing, management seem to think if they just use the word ‘recognition’ in every other sentence that they are reacting to that ‘reality check’ employee survey.

It it could be a good place to work but the company is just out to squeeze everything from their employees. That’s the feeling I have as a ‘generation Cruz’ DEP after just 2.5yrs. Part time is the only way to survive a career here with your sanity and health. Sad as it just doesn’t have to be this way, a few tweaks and we could be the envy of every other airlines’ pilot workforce, as it stands BA is a cold, greedy and hideously corporate beast.

We do a variety of ops in business aviation and the above is the most tiring.

You arrive at your hotel having been on duty for 12 hours, awake for 15 and you are tired. Do you go to sleep for 8-9 hours and then fail to get any more rest for the 15-16 hours before your next 12 hours duty .... its difficult to manage and impacts on safety as you approach the highest work load period at the end of your next 12 hours strapped in to a jet.

This is actually easier (although much less fun), you get to the hotel, eat dinner, go to sleep, get up, eat breakfast and report for duty ... at least this is safer but very boring and not the shiny dream of working in a legacy.

Best of luck in the ensuing negotiations

All of the above sounds horribly fatigue inducing.. How seriously is this taken at BA? Until a raft of fatigue reports come in, with crew stuck down route then nothing will change will it.
As someone above alluded to also there is a fantastic non punitive fatigue reporting system at current outfit, by sounds of it may well need it at BA too.

Surely with every aspect of the business under fire is it not time for the union to grow some balls and balance the power out a little? If you bow down and let them rear end you then you've only got yourselves to blame? Time for LH/SH/senior/junior to surely come together and make a stand. The "I'm alright Jack" issues at the top of the list has to be put to one side because everyone will have the sharks after their t&cs at some point in the future, the top needs the bottom's help and the bottom needs the top's help. Get with it before it's too late.

Couldn't agree more! I've been saying for some time that we REALLY need to start targeting the things that divide us. The company would be fearful of a united workforce IMHO. When the classic divide and conquer is being countered and the "I'm alright Jack" attitude has gone we MIGHT stand a chance. Until then the company will continue to pick off various parts of work force off at will.

I say again, merge all of the payscales into one and start to reduce the myriad of differences between us. Once we're all on ONE payscale we can move forward TOGETHER. KG seems to be very keen on looking things in a "blended' way. Lets start with some blending of our own shall we.

I had a conversation with a colleague at work while the pension stuff was ongoing. It was clear he really wasn't happy and I said we need to all stand together so would support his camp ie NAPS members and vote for industrial action if the time came and those affected felt it necessary. In almost the same sentence his reply was "well don't expect me to go on strike for BARP"....lovely!

Drastic action is required and it's not a case of being agressive towards BA. It's simply a matter of unifying the workforce. I agree it's hopeful to think such a thing could happen but in my humble opinion it's what's required. Until we're more unified the company will continue to pick us off one by one and the Me Me / I'm alright Jack's play right into their hands.

Just to add, this tactic isn't unique to BA. They just do it better than most.

The problem is if the Company has to look at their FRMS processes / trip builds etc then it's only fair that they look at crew members responsibilities also so as wiggy mentioned the C word comes into it (and that's not Christmas). So crew X on a crappy LAX 24hr layover don't operate as their too tired. So will BA look at the layover or what the crew got up to pre-flight - did they comply with crew members responsibilities before the outbound flight and downroute- with this in mind will crews report or keep quiet I wonder...
Yes there are some airlines out there with FRMS systems which are now mature and have been around for some time. Up until recently there was a well known quote "there is no fatigue at BA" - might have to get through the "yee who has the last laugh" before things move in the right direction for both BA and its crews.

I suspect if you asked a senior long haul FO what they had in common with a new FO at LGW, I suspect it might be easier for the list of differences to be highlighted rather than what they have in common within the context of their job. One doesn't need to look too far to see how there are numerous aspects of flying for BA that can create differences between colleagues. LHR vs LGW, Shorthaul vs Longhaul, Carmen vs Bidline (in a historical context of course) and BARP vs NAPS and that is coming from someone who doesn't work for the company, so I suspect more could be added to the list!! The more differences amongst colleagues, then the more challenging it has to be to create any solidarity in the workplace.

Reading some of the previous posts reminds me of an ex BA skipper who stepped into a Flight Ops management position at my last company after he retired. It was rather irksome to see how reluctant he was to engage with management and to address any issues that were passed up the food chain. After a few beverages down route one night, one of the cabin crew actually took him to task over his reluctance to communicate and help create change where it was needed. He admitted he had no desire to 'rock the boat' unless he himself was going to benefit as well. A carry-over from his BA days perhaps?

As I said earlier, I am not at BA but I do have a few friends still there, so I do read this thread from time to time out of interest. I left the UK to become an ex-pat aviator before EASA FTLs were brought in, so my knowledge of them is rather scant, to say the least. Regardless of that, any manager worth their salt will use their FTL framework as a guideline for enhancing crew productivity and I have seen this where I am now. It seems that no airline in IAG appears to be immune from this nowadays either. If 24 hours down route in the US west coast is legal, then it's a case of when rather than if it ever happens before your management consider tweaking with your rosters. Having crews away from home base longer than needed, seems to be a bête noire for management in any airline and it is a very easy way for them to reduce operating costs.

Some of you seem to have suggested that change will be forthcoming for trips that are changed to include shorter layovers, once a paper trail has started involving safety and fatigue reporting. I can assure you from first-hand experience that it is nothing short of a gargantuan task to revert roster practices, back to a level that reduces crew productivity. If a trip is deemed to be legal and if you raise your head above the parapet and shout fatigued and not fit to operate, then I would suggest that caution may be prudent, since BA may find it convenient to view the reporter as the problem rather than the timings of the trip itself. A number of you commute and some involve air travel in this process. The company could take delight in wading through staff travel records and probing into your travel and rest arrangements prior to your trips, so that a cause for your fatigue can conveniently (for the company!) be established. With the company seeming to wish to take a greater interest in how you all travel to work, then I suspect what may seem to be a rather invasive action, is not beyond the realms of possibility. Such actions could also act as a deterrent to those thinking of whistleblowing as well. If a trip is deemed to be legal in the eyes of the regulator, then it takes a lot of people to create a case for it to be deemed to be not fit for purpose.

From reading this thread it would seem that some BA aviators here, seem to have lost hope in your CC as well but this has to be your last line of defence against unfavourable change. If enough of you are disillusioned about your CC as some of the posters on this thread appear to be, then what would the outcome of a petition of 'No Confidence' in your CC be?

Good Luck and I shall be watching from the sidelines!

Much like post above I really think you need to be careful before posting things like this (especially In bold). We are LEGALLY required to report if we are are fatigued or likely to become so during our duty- such that safety becomes compromised. We are professionals and I'm sure the vast majority observe EASA rules regarding commuting and rest before work. Please do not try to scaremonger people into not reporting fatigue. It is the only way some of these dangerous rostering practices will be changed.

Whether a trip is legal or not is irrelevant. Fatigue is personal! Some people find things more/less fatiguing than others. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. I don't know where you work but BA claims to have an open and just culture- we should be reporting fatigue. We should not be punished for it and Im 100% sure the regulator would not take well to punitive fatigue management.

Baring in mind you're not at BA and obviously don't work in an airline with a decent FRMS I'm not sure how relevant your post is to current/prospective BA pilots so please think about what you post and its effects on readers.

Did you CC Balpa in on it Bex? What did they try to discredit your report with?

Please call me tomorrow.

Email if the phone thing scares you.

B