seen some mentions above that new upgrades get paid less than at ryr...is this true?! what are they taking home now? thats a sorry state for the industry

I see, yet you think long haul and short haul, captain and first officer, are equal in all of those things?

BA is like a super tanker, any change will never happen overnight, even though its obvious that change needs to happen.

So many of our T&C's a based on legacy and out of date reasoning that simply do not match the current reality.
For example:
Why is LH pay more that SH, Why do LH get larger potions of food, Why do LH get pre-departure sandwiches when SH crew are the ones running around between aircrafts all day. Why do widebody fleets get duvets on LH flights when the equivalent narrow body LH flights doesn't, why is a 4-5 day trip on SH, flying every day, worth less credit than a LH trip with several days off down route, how come a LCA day trip is worth the same credit as 2 full days at work and 6 sectors, why is it okay for a SH 2 man-crew to fly 4 sectors, on a 11h duty day, which sometimes can be very challenging, if the weather is bad, or even a 2 sector night DME, yet on LH we need 3 crew to do one sector... I could continue. Our T&C's are totally out of date and most definitely favor LH. (Some of the above are obviously trivial, yet the duvets on LH was recently improved, which was proudly announced by the chief pilot... I challenge anybody to highlight an area where SH trumps LH? Apart from ones desire to sleep in your own bed. (This requires you do be very senior though), and perhaps the increased work satisfaction.

It can never be the individual that needs to turn down an opportunity, for things to change. That is simply crazy to suggest. It is BALPA's job to argue that certain parts of the work force has fallen behind the market rate. And yes this may mean that certain groups are rewarded more than others in a pay review, (btw I have no skin in the game, as I have passed the point on the pay scale where it matters) however nobody is stealing from anybody. The reality is that, certain work groups have been hit disproportionately compared to others, for a long period of time. Doesn't this require correction? This combined with NAPS is the reason for SH commands being so junior.
It's madness to have a workplace where employees taking on a large responsibility, i.e the legal responsibility of jet, yet someone on LH can just enjoy the lifestyle on more money, as it financially unattractive to go to SH.

I take my hat of to the junior colleagues who chose to challenge and better themselves careers wise, even though the pay isn't what it should be. Its a great achievement to get a jet command. And had the pay and T&C's been better, well then maybe the opportunity wouldn't be there, but then at least these individuals could have enjoyed some seniority on LH as the naturally progression would have worked like in the old days.

BALPA need to review every work group individually and compare them to the market rate. An RPI+ payrise is relevant across all the fleets, but other T&C's need to reviewed based on individual fleets. Just like maternity pay needs to be reviewed, as its well below what should be expected from a big employer like BA. And yes, that may mean that BA will be unwilling to increase the package for some of our more privileged colleagues, but looking at it from the top of the tree and say I am not giving anything up, even though others are paid too little etc, seems to be detrimental to a unified work force.

As mentioned above. I do not have skin in the game as such, as I have passed the point where it really matters if the deal is improved further down on the list. So the above is really just my observation. It my be naive to suggest that some work groups can be rewarded whilst still maintaining the market rate for others, but that should really be the mission of BALPA. Sure lets give the TSC on LH pay point 24 a 10pct pay rise if we can, but other areas may need some attention first, especially if his or hers T&C's are market rate already...
Anyway, I will get my coat.

As I commented on post earlier about overtime making things overall worse for the community this seems to be another 'issue' I recognise in BA. Ive flown with several SH Airbus captains who comment 'on how good they've got it' but yet are paid less, work more and spend countless more hours sat in uniform in T5 than pretty much all other short haul companies in UK. As Bex refers to fixed rosters and salary at other UK carriers how can we seriously sit and say 'how good we've got it'. Take away the so called 'kudos' for working for a flag carrier and suddenly the contracts for short haul pilots are pretty poor in comparison. If I didn't want to give LH a go I would have already gone back to previous. SH at BA is not a nice place to be.

Great post BAP. If only more senior pilots recognised this we might actually get somewhere. Seems as though everyone is willing to jump over one another to make sure they're better off personally. Total lack of unity and thats why the company will continue to do as they please with little/no response from BALPA.

Having flown with a rep recently he raised a good point. How can we ballot to strike when the mentality is as above? Are LH pilots going to walk out over a ridiculous duty rig on SH and totally un-sustainable rosters? At least JSS might see some of the SH summer horror rosters replicated on LH. Then again- it will be junior pilots flying them. Will the guys/girls higher on the list care if they're getting the first choice trips and the days off they want?

N.B not suggesting LH is easier than SH- but as mentioned in post above a lot more protections and better conditions seem to be found on LH.

These posts make grim reading. It may be worth summarising why BA pilot T&Cs fell so far so quickly (IMHO). It would seem that the previous BACC prioritised keeping all BA pilots on the same seniority list and resisting any plans to set up a low cost BA operation at LHR. They achieved these aims and the rapid growth in BA pilot numbers and commands is the reward. The downsides are numerous as so much was sacrificed along the way; the introduction of a B pay scale, the loss of a final salary pension, SH working to EASA rules and perhaps worse of all, the erosion and eventual loss of BidLine. Numerous other quality of life measures were also given up. A BA manager famously remarked that the "BACC were far more effective at controlling pilot costs than BA management."

Anyone contemplating joining BA should seek as much advice as possible from mates on the inside. In particular anyone aged about 40 or over should seriously think through their likely career path. A first LH command aged 55+ and the consequent severe deterioration in lifestyle may not be a realistic option when the opportunity finally arises.

Anyone living more than about 2 hours journey from LHR should also think carefully. BA are focusing on commuting time for a number of reasons. BA pilot fatigue reports have increased by a factor of 40 since EASA rules were implemented and are likely to rocket far higher if the new JSS rosters are anything like the trial runs. BA will examine whether commuting time was a significant factor in generating fatigue, they would much rather we all lived in Slough or Staines and travelled in by bus (reducing their never ending car park issues).

Sadly it is no longer a "happy" place to work and that is unlikely to change.

Does anyone know whether BALPA already did some proposals for salary improvements? and are there some rumors? I think that it would be good if they look to the other legacy carriers e.g. at Lufthansa and Air France - KLM? Despite the relatively weak profit (compared to Lufthansa and IAG) Air France- KLM pilots got 4% pay rise and company agreed on more off-days for trips.
To be honest I think BA should not compare itself with Ryan Air and easy Jet but with the legacy carriers.
Then you see that BA pays less for CPTS on SH primarily and First officers LH. Considering the good financial results, profit share would be appropriate. From a financial perspective BA currently is best in class compared to the other legacies, this should go hand in hand with improved pay and more days off. This is a market trend and BA should follow this. Pilotjobsnetwork. com gives a good indication about payscales among the legacies.

6 on 1 off, 5 on 2 off, really? That sounds dreadful and harder work than the summer just gone at the orange loco.

Another here about to join the LHR sh ranks. Fully aware it wasn't going to be a cake walk and with family situation similar to others weekend work doesn't bother me at the minute. However, that sounds particularly punishing.

I understand the roster restructuring is causing uncertainty for the future but how do typical (if there is such a thing) winter/summer CAP translate into duty/block hours?

I plan to go in 2032. I won't ever use the third runway.

Brexit
 

How are BA communicating any possible issues with Brexit on the horizon? My employer is making a fair bit of noise regarding possible changes to the pilot establishment so it would be interesting to see how other airlines are viewing the future....

Can't comment on which type they use these days. However I can comment on the first bit. Don't believe those people. There is no truth in it what so ever. Even looking from an economic point of view, the assessment isn't cheap for BA. Why let people go through all the stages of the selection if they only want rated people to save costs while we need people ASAP. I guess for those who unfortunately didn't make the grade this time around it is easier to blame it on the system.

During the assessment they will verify the earlier assessment stages (your personality), see how you interact with your colleague and lastly how quickly you can learn new things.

From what I remember when I did it, it is hard work however the instructors are going the extra mile to make it as pleasant as possible.

Good luck!!!

I am not rated and so was my buddy during the assesment. We both passed and got offered a starting date (sim was nov 24 and we got a starting date offered today so there isnt really a holdpool at the moment). If you have a rating or not does not matter. It is a very fair sim assessment in a relaxed atmosphere. For now the sim assesment is still done on the 767. I also did it on the 767. Mainly because that one is/was most available. The assessor said BA was trying to sell it, but failed to do so due to lack of interest. So it could change at any stage in the next few months I guess. Better study all pitch settings ;-).

They'll be over-run with applications with news of our wopping pay rise :ok: (well the ambitious starting point, anyway :E)

Agreed. It'll depend what can be negotiated bonus wise but tbh I'd rather just have to cash in my pay rather than have a bonus linked to figures that can be manipulated.

The backstop of 5% is OK but fairly unambitious given our current unprecedented levels of profitability. I'd have gone in at 10% with a view to being chipped down a bit to 7% or so. Given the rapid deterioration in our fundamental t's and c's over the last few years I'm more concerned what the company are going to make BALPA give away in return. That said, there are limited big ticket items left to go for.

The 767 sim will be kept and used up until the point we need another sim bay - they already have started installing the 350 sim, so nothing on the imminent horizon