If summer is similarly ‘hard work’, it will certainly unveil JSS in all it’s glory too! Best put that back to later in the year!

Surely not ANOTHER case of Flt Ops making promises (to network) their department can not fulfil?

I’m happy for you Smokey that you’re chuffed. I’m not at all though. I’d be slotting in around the 78% point on long haul, so I was feeling reasonably happy about that level of seniority.

As for OT and RDW, stuff that for a game of soldiers. Each to their own I guess.

Only trying to suggest a way of looking at the positives. I agree I'm in a fortunate position. Best of luck kind Sir/Ma'am.

I’m not either Ellen. I’m not even that close to a LH slot but it was nice to imagine that we’d be moving further up the Airbus P2 list and gaining the benefit of better bidding power etc in the meantime. Now stagnation looms again after probably a tiny bit of movement next month whilst a load of guys get onto long haul ahead of those waiting patiently.

As a commuter even the most junior 747 P2 is enjoying rosters that are immeasurably better in terms of lifestyle than those enjoyed in the right hand seat of the Airbus. (Yes I know I choose to commute and I’m aware of that, first world problems and all, but my argument still stands).

The argument that we all slot in ahead of these guys eventually once we move to LH is bogus too or at the very least only applicable for the younger guys. With those of us who are more advanced in years that time lost in the Airbus RHS is precious and also with seniority likely to be legally challenged (and probably successfully I might add) in years to come that only compounds the issue.

Sorry for venting but I fail to see the upside here. I’ll calm down shortly and get on with life though.

Oh that doesn’t sound too good for DEPs? Or are these new courses/new white tails being binned in favour of more DEPs?

I think it sounds very good for DEPs...

Any more detail on this Rex? I can see the logic... delaying a course of 6 FPPs releases a huge amount of training capacity that could be used to bring many more DEPs onto the line.

At a guess, each FPP trainee needs half a dozen sims (post type rating) and ~50 line training sectors? Against maybe 3 sims and 10 line training sectors for DEPs?

That course of 6 FPP guys who need 300 (minimum) line training sectors could be pushed and allow 30 DEPs in. That alone should take a bit of pressure off the SH fleet? Not to mention sim capacity...

Ah ok that would make sense....fingers crossed!

Reading across various sources I think FoxChaRomeo and others are probably right...

All the signs are that BA have very recently discovered that they need more Short Haul pilots on line PDQ....

More ITSU, it will help you get through 8o)

Not everyone has the luxury of choice!

Anybody who wants to have a long career in BA would!

BA are delighted to show the door to anyone who doesn’t, and wish them good luck elsewhere. There’s certainly no shortage of applicants behind them!

heli-wings

I’ve already said I’m perfectly willing to wait my time. What does grind my gears though is that waiting time increasing significantly because of DEPs onto the long haul fleets, all of which I met the requirements for when I joined. With the added pain of in the meantime being significantly disadvantaged in my current posting by more senior guys who should have left my fleet in accordance with their aspirations (given the normal sequence of events) being forced to remain.

That’s not exactly hard to understand. And I’m as much outraged for those who are unfrozen or had freeze waivers who are now being disadvantaged by this.

Did you have the option of LH when you joined?

That option was made unavailable to me because of my Airbus rating, Wiggy. I know for a fact there were turboprop pilots who went direct entry Long Haul after me despite never having flown a jet. Hours were not the issue, the rating was. Anyway I’m going to stop moaning about it now because there’s nothing that can be done and I’m sounding like a stuck record.

Those of us in the holdpool have been warned that if we decline the offer made, we will most likely be dropped from the holdpool due to the length of time we have been swimming.... so chances are people will accept anything to get their foot in the door...do the time/5yrs and bid for another fleet if required/desired.

Rex..

I get where you are coming from...I guess the BA POV was they would have to give the turbo-prop pilots a full TR etc, regardless of which fleet they went on. In your case they could save cash by putting you effectively your existing type...but yes I can see how it grates.

Rex,

I understand why you are peeved, I too was only given the choice of SH and joined almost exactly 3 years ago, 9 months later people from my previous company with no jet experience were streamed straight onto LH.

That said we both knew we were to be frozen SH for 5 years so I have no beef about it.

I am now at 40% seniority, one of my friends who went LH is still in the 90% bracket and my pattern of work as a commuter is far superior to his (note - pattern of work, we most definitely work harder but I get more days at home)

With the implementation of JSS and the ability to request working patterns I believe senior SH will be far better placed than junior LH to create and be awarded rosters that work for the , so much so I am seriously considering not bidding for LH this year (for the same reason will not be bidding for command) so I think it’s wait and see time.

From what I understand (from someone in the know) regarding those who had their freeze waived this year, most if not all will get the move but there may be a small number who are refrozen (by no means a given)

Don’t know anything about the FPP courses but if it means more DEPs then we will be working less...

LH will come if that’s really what you want just need to wait, there’s worse places to be - honest.

Can anyone share what the A320 (low seniority) roster at LGW is like? Is it commutable and am I right in thinking it's mostly day trips?

No reason, asking for a friend.

I don’t think it’s very smart to put pilots with no jet experience straight on to LH. Sorry, but that’s my view! Particularly the case if there’s lots of heavy sectors on the fleet. That kind of decision is driven by accountants. Not pilots!

OTOH. Yes, joining on SH puts you at, what some consider as, the bottom of the pile. But believe it or not, there are actually some advantages. As has been explained by a previous poster, accelerated progression up the status list being one of them. Particularly significant one imagines with JSS? On SH, since most destinations are frankly, much of a muchness, pretty much the only significant differentiator between the upper parts of the list, and the lower, are the days of the week you choose to work, and access to one or two significant days off in a month, such as birthdays, wedding anniversaries, night School, sporting fixtures etc. You will get that sort of control FAR earlier on SH! Not to mention Xmas at home!!

Alternatively, join LH at the bottom, and spend your life going to the Middle East in the height of summer, or North America in the winter. West coast of Africa or India. If you’re really lucky, you’ll join a fleet that has decent destinations. But you’ll only get to them when nobody else wants to go. You’ll also work every Xmas and probably New Year, that you can’t protect with leave or duty free week! Oh, and best get used to more people joining your status list above you, than below you!

Those who join BA first will ALWAYS enjoy the advantage of seniority over those who join even the following day. In BA (currently!) Seniority is EVERYTHING! If I was offered SH today, or LH next week. The answer is a no brainer! SH today please!!

Life is full of stepping stones. If you moan about SH, you’re probably the kind of person that will moan about LH! Do your damndest to enjoy wherever you are TODAY. Because that’s where you live your life!

Well said 4468 - thats why I'll be turning down BA and going DEC to Easy ;)

Just received an email that mentions BA recruitment to open again for 320 rated guys.

VJW by 'recruitment open again for 320 rated guys' does that mean 320 rated people currently in the hold pool or they're going to kick off a new round of the recruitment process? Cheers

Don’t cut your nose to spite your face. Opportunities like this don’t come around everyday, 6 months ago recruitment looked very dull. Fast forward to now, looks like LH DEP is back on the cards, I recon this is only the beginning! I feel I was very lucky to get the LH fleet I did but I would have taken a SH offer time and time again! Having worked at one of the UK’s other big airlines I will never look back. I was in the company less than a day and I suddenly felt valued, appreciated and treated like a professional. Maybe it’s my attitude but I would think very hard about turning down an offer, after all the hard work you must have put in to get in the pool. You won’t get the same opportunities elsewhere. I generally love working for the company, which was a very different story at my previous! Good luck to you all, I hope you get what you’ve waited so patiently for!

The email says, 'Initial forecasting shows that the majority of offers for 2018 will be to the A320 with the majority being based at LGW. While we have a number of you in the holdpool who have an A320 rating, the numbers that are being predicted mean we will need more ROT A320 Pilots than there are of you in the holdpool so we will shortly be launching a new A320 recruit on type campaign.'

I understand that to mean that every A320 rated guy in the pool now will get offered a SH position eventually, but as there isn't enough of them and rather than type rate those that have been waiting 12-24 months in the pool, to save time and more importantly money they'll see if they can't get more rated guys externally first.

Yes mostly day trips although there are a fair amount of 2-5 day tours around aswell if that’s your thing. I’m in the bottom 20% and still get a reasonable satisfaction from Carmen (takes a while to work out how to get out what you want though!)

Summer was fairly full on as to be expected. I’d say maybe 12 days off per month on average May-Sep. The winter provides a welcome break with more like 15-17 days off per month. All of the above depends on how you bid of course.

VJW
You illustrate my point perfectly. Many like you are delighted to do exactly the same thing, in the same seat, (of the same airframe?) for 30 years or more. Visiting the same strips of tarmac but rarely experiencing those destinations. Working the same fixed rosters, and knowing 10 years in advance whether they’ll be off for anniversaries/ birthdays etc. There’s a lot to be said for that kind of life. As I’ve said BA isn’t for everyone. So why did you bother ever applying?

Should BA make you an offer, you’ll have the ‘pleasure’ of turning them down, and BA will be delighted to show you the door, before shouting, “Next!”

VJW,

Well done you, I am sure you will be a great loss to BA...

We will miss you on this thread as now you are not joining I assume you will desist from posting.

Depends where from and more importantly how...He/she shouldn’t plan on travelling into base by air on the same day as reporting for duty.

I applied before I had kids and my opinion has since changed. No need for all the hostility chaps. I worked hard to pass BA’s assessment and really wanted to join. All I’m saying and I thought I was agreeing with 4468 in that I’ve had to take matters into my own hands and take/be happy with the actual opportunities I’ve been offered.

It’s a shame of course but for 16 months I’ve only ever had emails from BA that ended with, ‘I’m sorry this might be disappointing news.’

Icanseeclearly FWIW, I'm not sure you need to be at or soon to be joining an airline in order to post on 'it's' thread. I note you've been in BA over 3 years yet you have posted on RYR threads within this time. How is it you've been able to do that?

A320 LGW DEP recruitment now open, come on in!


https://jobs.ba.com/jobs/vacancy/dir...2/description/

Re. Commuting to LGW: as mantioned above there are some tours available, but they're generally quite popular in the RHS as guys try and max out their take-home pay. They're generally more popular for FO's than Captains, and you'll see more uncovered ones for the LHS. And who doesn't like an afternoon bike ride pub crawl in Jersey?

I guess you'd definitely need some sort of bolthole. Generally day trips, and you can expect to do one or two trips clearing after midnight each month in the summer. There will be times where it's 6 on, 1 off, 6 on, and no-one will be too far away from 100 hours in 28 days by the time it gets to August/September.

I wasn't aware that this thread was for BA or BA pool sitters only. Like myself, VJW's situation has changed considerably since entry to the pool. He has a command at easy to go to and with a young family to feed that is a significant difference in short term finance needs. An easy command salary now or sit in the seniority list waiting for years for the same at BA. Given domestic circumstances it becomes a no brainer.

Don't blame you one bit VJW. Just to put the finances into perspective, according to PPJN, EZY skipper is on £104k plus £30 per sector straight out of the box. To make the same basic salary at BA would involve 13 years service, plus approx £10ph flying.

In addition you wont be "junior trash" for years, and might see a weekend off occasionally.

No brainer to me...

Is it really a no brainer though? Yes the finances in the LHS at Easy are wonderful, but if cash was the only consideration then one would also be better off staying put in the LHS at RYR.

I think you'd find a few differences in lifestyle between an Easy skipper and a 13 year BA FO, mainly in favour of the latter... the big shiny salary isn't necessarily always as important as having the control over your life that you seemingly do at BA. Surely a few years slumming it at bottom seniority is worth it in the long run?

Second that... I am a junior 320 skipper @ BA! Not a nice place to be. If one can happily say goodbye to long haul then Easy really is a no brainier.

One word of caution:
After 5 years at EasyJet I really needed part time as there was no way I could keep it up full time.
So those figures only work if you manage to do 13 years full time at EZY. I’m now on year 13 in BA and nowhere near feeling I need part time. Of course it would be nice but that’s another story altogether....

Sorry if I’ve caused a thread drift. All I meant to imply was whoever were to call me first out their pool wins. Both are good jobs but I can’t turn down one waiting for the other, especially when the other has kept me waiting well over a year and still suggests a call isn’t coming this year.

I've worked at EZY across a few bases and I'm now a junior SH skipper at BA after around 5 years.

BA is by far the easiest flying I've ever done.

I’m genuinely intrigued.

When you say “easiest”, what do you mean?

Clearly you can’t mean time in uniform? So do you mean easiest as far as the colleagues you work with? The base you fly from? The destinations you serve? Rostering agreement? Stability? Opportunity?

What is it that’s ‘easier’?

Thanks

Flying 20% less than I used to, excellent colleagues (same at EZY to be fair), decent number of weekends off even at the bottom, days are way shorter, control over the type of flying that suits you (earlies, lates, daytrips, tours etc), rock solid roster stability, weeks of leave in school holidays, helpful ground team that gives you compassionate / dependent leave.

Downsides are the company is enormous so can be difficult to feel at home when you don’t recognise anybody on a 2 day your with 5 different crew. Slighty awkward aircraft changes with 2 hour turns but there’s virtually always possibility for coffee and a decent meal in T5 that’s not crew food.

There’s a thread in the airline of course that SH is terrible and exhausting but it’s way better than the grind of long term low cost flying in my experience. LHR night jet ban is great!

Could all change at the bottom with JSS but I’m cautiously optimistic.

FWIW, non type rated in the pool for a long time, received and accepted the offer for A320 LHR. Happy to be in and settle in for the long road ahead. Most definitely a step up from my current regional gig!!