The answer is different for everyone because everyone‘s situation is different. If you’re applying, hopefully you will have read much of this thread and will be well aware of the pros & cons.

There are some strong voices on here, both for and against the company. Ignore them all, and make the decision based on your situation alone, not theirs.

And remember, the key to happiness is not just the dollars in the bank at the end of the month!

Good luck with your application.

Generally agree, however, BA has changed soooo much in the 10+ yrs that I’ve been there, unfortunately not for the better good of the employee. If you feel it has more to offer than Easy, than join but do so with open eyes, take heed of all the advice on here and make a decision that suits your circumstances.

The bottom line is:

Is long haul your sole destiny and are you happy to be RHS for a very long time.

The rest is much of a muchness. BA is not the same compared to 5/10/20 years ago. Goodness knows what it will look like in the near future.

With an altimeter in it so it only works above FL200 :O

why on earth as an experienced pilot you would want to join the bottom of a very long list with race to the bottom TandC I do not know. BA used to be the aspiration for many, it is now just another airline competing in the marketplace for what is becoming a scarce commodity, if you are young with many years ahead of you maybe, to others there are far better deals out there.

bluepilot

As you know, it's whether LH is the be all and end all.

Otherwise, the grass isn't always greener.

Good luck to those that are 'blessed'; whilst their contemporaries may be fat, dumb, wealthier and happier.

Because that race to the bottom is going on everywhere, and maybe BA will level off at a point above the LoCos?

It’s not for everyone, I agree. If I was high houred FO or Captain at a regional base with a LoCo (particularly if that base was far from London) with no particular desire to go long haul, I’d probably stay where I am. But if Long Haul is the aspiration, or you buy into the prestige (yes, it’s easy to sniff at it, but it is our nations flag carrier, and that does count for something) then it’s a harder decision.

And it’s not like it’s a prison camp - I’m sure you can put in your notice and leave if it’s not for you, same as any other job.

Have to agree with the sentiments above. Clearly there are a few BA pilots who think only BA pilots are in the firing line.

The truth is the race to the bottom is well and truly on, everywhere. It’s not a BA problem specifically, it’s an industry problem. The latest rumours about design your own uniform or training being outsourced are just this weeks examples. And at the moment it’s all just rumours.

There will be new rumours every week between now and when you retire - none of which are likely to be morale inspiring in their content. Its been like that in all 3 companies I’ve worked for. Even in times of record profitability the next swing of the axe is (rumoured at least) to be just around the corner. If you can’t handle that I’m afraid you’re in the wrong industry. Our terms and conditions will always be under attack.

What I can say with certainty is that the grass isn’t always greener. We have our problems and other companies have their problems.

And as an FO? The BA offer for short haul was a chunk more than Monarch (not exactly known for crap wages) paid me.

As I originally said, if you’re a captain or Senior FO at a regional base, then BA may not be for you. For everyone else, I’d say it’s an option to consider.

TTR - I'm genuinely intrigued....what is the 'prestige' actually worth to you.

For me, the difference between taking a commuting job and BA.

Just for information; I've recently left BA to take a command at Ryanair. Spent several years as a Longhaul DEP but it's going nowhere; BA went from a Legacy carrier to a Longhaul LoCo in the space of several years... And I figured if I'm going to work for a LoCo I might as well work for one that pays more than BA.
It's sad but there you have it.
All of the former reasons for joining are no longer there; bidline, pension, 24 point payscale, early shorthaul command, early retirement and working less than 850hrs per year... And Alex Cruz isn't done yet; not by a long shot. All that's left now is prestige, I tried paying for my groceries the other day with that, but they wouldn't take it.
Obviously make your own decison, but I've made mine; I'm out.

To echo Doppio above, I too rejoined Ryanair as a Capt last year having done a stint as a longhaul DEP at BA.

It’s not just about the money at all but I’m earning 60% more in net salary now I’m back at Ryanair, with only a v.small difference in company pension contributions. Time to command longhaul would have been 17 to 20 years. Bidline didn’t work for me as a pilot at the bottom of the seniority list and I hated night flying. I have more days at home per month now than I did at BA and my quality of life and bank balance is much healthier.

Many of those I joined BA with think along similar lines and I know of a couple of who have gone back to their previous employers.

Having said that, for some joining BA (longhaul) has been like winning the lottery. It’s still a good job but it all depends what your other options in life / career are. Be careful giving up an easy, well paid life elsewhere to have the ‘prestige’ of a British flag on the tail of your aircraft.

I also left BA as a DEP to return to my former loco outfit. Should never have left in the first place. It taught me a valuable lesson not to give up a command chasing the apparent prestige of flying for one’s flag carrier.

Not that it’s a bad job at all. For some it’s fantastic I imagine, but most on my intake are hugely questioning whether to stay or go back.

Good luck to those in the pool though if that’s what you really want.

TTR you gave an answer but I don’t understand it. BA’s ‘prestige’ you refer isn’t you simplying saying that they offer you a job near where you live is it?

For me to join BA I’d have to drive further to work than I do now- would you call a decision for me to go to BA from RYR less prestigious because of that?

Plenty to of people (the majority I’d say) work at LoCo’s live close to their home base. Additionally there are people in BA who commute in from abroad- I’m not sure location of your base in relation to your house is what makes the airline itself prestigious or not...

Reads above, takes deep breath...removes pin...

Is there a general assumption by those here in the know that aspirational bidding for fleet/seat movement will still be existence at BA in anything like it's current form in, say, 5-6 years time...

Retires to safe distance.

Facoff I did not know early or late commands existed. In answer to your question I was granted my bid when my seniority allowed the opportunity to undertake a command course. I am junior on the status but not in time served. The simple truth is BA pays less and rostering is pretty poor at the bottom. There are some benefits of course and if I did not value them I would consider a different fleet and status or a different airline. Would I join from a command position or close to it from RYR or EZY? I would struggle to recommend it, but I would happily say BA is a good employer.

For those long haul DEPs who left to return to previous employers, what fleets were you on? I believe junior life on the Jumbo is pretty rubbish and has left a few friends of mine a bit disillusioned. Similarly, DEP Airbus.

Conversely, the 777 and to an extent the 787 offer a pretty good lifestyle wherever you are on the status list.

Wiggy, are you suggesting that aspirational bidding to a different fleet might become a thing of the past and you might end up being ‘stuck’on whatever fleet you join on?

The following really is just my opinion but:

1.I don't see any reason for the cost cutting to stop,

2. The amount of low hanging fruit on the Flight Ops tree is reducing and the whole Aspirational Bid/PRIAM process in it's current form is still hanging there..

..and

3.BALPA is very fond of hinting the next big issue is the line in the sand...

With all that in mind I certainly think in the near future it is almost inevitable that the company are going to try to reduce aspirational options and conversion frequencies - the Aspirational Bidding agreement will come under the sort of pressure that Bidline suffered...

Worse still if ( big "if" I know ) the current rumour turn out to be true and training gets outsourced to an external company then there really will be pressure to minimise conversions.

As it stands at the moment I don't think people will inevitably get stuck on the fleet they join on but I can see the company really pushing hard in the near future to reduce/restrict seat and fleet changes across a career.

I was DEP 747...lasted just over 2 years and called it a day! Tough decision and BA was a good employer but for those chasing LH go in with your eyes open and prepare to feel like you have mild permanent Flu the tiredness is a constant battle!!
From my short time at BA Cruz will cut costs where he can ...he must surely be asking what value is there to BA for a pilot on one LH aircraft bidding to go and fly another one just because they fancy something different!?

Good luck to all in the pool for many I’m sure it’ll be a good move just have your eyes open. If I was command with a Loco or close to it I’d not even consider BA unless you have to do LH to tick that box.

I’m no more in the know than you Wiggy but it’s no secret it is on Cruz and Gunnings wish list as it is a cost they can hack away at. I can see aspirational moves being limited to something similar to the Lufthansa set up (SH f/o - LH f/o, SH Cpt - LH Cpt) Which would be a massive shame as it is one of the few great remaining features of BA.

I am just totally fascinated by the fact that some BA pilots fly "for the prestige".

What "prestige"?

Reminds me of one of my old F/Es who got two letters of thanks in one month from the MD (who was a billionaire) thanking him for saving the company money.

He wrote a letter to the MD saying "Dear George, Keep sending the "thank you" letters. For God's sake don't send me any money. My bank manager just loves your letters".

To add a little balance to the negativity that seems to be in abundance on pprune.....

Yes things are changing, but let’s try and see the wood for the trees -

1. The pension has just improved by 3% for new joiners and is arguably as good if not better than anywhere else. As an example, the total contribution is 50% higher than easyjet (my previous employer)

2. Yes, bidline as a bidding function has gone, but it has been replaced by a powerful new system which remains better than any other system I know of in any other airline.

3. The hundreds of pages long Bidline agreement (Bidline Rules) which is essentially our rostering agreement, is largely untouched as a result of the new bidding system arriving. It is this set of rules that makes our life relatively easy at BA compared with previous companies I’ve worked for.

4. Once the rosters are published they are set in stone. This is a massive plus from a lifestyle perspective and can not be said of too many other companies.

5. Despite the rumours, we still can bid to move fleets. Aren’t we trained to make decisions on facts rather than speculation? Besides, even if the rumours do come true to some extent, BA still needs someone to fly all of the aircraft types we have. Movement might slow down, but it logically can’t stop....

6. If money is what matters to you, pay might be lower at first, but across a career it isn’t far away from the LoCos.

7. We still get off the aircraft and have time to explore the places we visit all over the world. Personally, I can’t put a price on the incredible experiences I’ve had on company time. It’s a huge privilege.

8. At Heathrow on short haul, we start work a good hour later on average than LoCos do, and rarely finish beyond 10.30pm. We also seldom do 4 sector days. Compared to LoCo or Charter flying it doesn’t take a sleep scientist or a doctor to demonstrate the positive impact this has on health, longevity, mood and happiness.

9. For the most part we stay in nice hotels in city centres, so we can easily enjoy our destinations. Rumours are always that this will change. However, for those without selective hearing there are strong counter arguments to this, and anyway which wise man ever made choices based on rumours?

10. Staff travel, despite its foibles, allows us to take our families on great holidays all over the world for a fraction of the cost, often in premium cabins.

11. As for the prestige, I guess that’s personal. However, rightly or wrongly the public perception is that BA has the best pilots. I personally don’t agree, but that’s not the point. We are all human beings and so if someone is impressed by the fact you work at the perceived “best company” it’s hard not to feel at least a little bit good about it.


I know some people will try to pick holes in the above arguments with nuanced, cherry picked and speculative pointers. I just want to show potential joiners the positives to go alongside the negatives which are so prolifically stated and, dare I say, often exaggerated on this forum.

Good luck to all who are considering their options.

The first FPPs are moving LH or getting commands A320

I enjoy a good bit of BA bashing as much as the next person but I largely agree with the above. There are plenty of positives about working for BA, if you don’t like it or think finacially it’s not good enough then don’t join, simple. And to put things in to context the only reason the debate exists between LoCo and BA salaries is because of the ridiculously short command time at most LoCos, remove that factor and BAs pay is better, let’s face it if your young enough you will retire at BA on close to 200k as a long haul Captain (maybe only for 1 year, but still), it’s hardly insulting money!

I agree the lure of a quick command and instant pay day is very tempting (especially to those of us with a few miles on the clock, so to speak) but for others BA is a perfectly decent option and the endless negativity is slightly boring.

If iphones where crap they wouldnt sell so many, my point is when recruitment opens applications come pouring in......

Also people are very quick to quote salaries at Loco airlines but the facts are that many skippers look towards part time to make it managable long term

Speaking of recruitment... any insider info on if they’ll open again for NTR?

How do you know? It's still being "built".

There are some issues with it and it has been delayed until at least September because no-one wants to take the risk of implementing it during the summer when the schedule as it is looks a bit optimistic.

It may be that it turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread but until everyone is bidding with it simultaneously, any suggestion that it is "better than any other system" is conjecture.

Well said polepilot
 

The negativity towards BA astounds me on this forum. If guys who have been in for 10+ years thinks the T’s+C’s at BA are as bad as you make out on here, what do you think the LoCo’s are doing....Its certainly a race to the bottom but what we have is bloody good in comparison!

Complaining about the new bidding, yes I would prefer to keep Bidline, but did I have any say over my roster at previous? NO, and did my roster stay as what was allocated, NO, it changed every single day I checked out from previous day! I know shorthaul is not everyone’s dream fleet but in 5 years average, +\- you can bid off and spend your months playing golf in South Africa, drinking Beer/eating chicken wings on West coast, and generally seeing the world on a monthly basis! This is not to mention being treated like a professional pilot, left to make decisions in the right seat which is far from the Loco I came from!

How about this feed is used to help the guys that ACTUALLY want to join BA and therefore help them to do so, rather than moan about first world problems that quite frankly are absent at most of UK Loco/airlines today!

And if we’re going to mention money, as an SFO at previous Loco(6 years), I make a lot more at BA. Albeit some overtime, again not an option at most Loco, you roster just gets changed to cover the work!

If your not convicted by joining BA, leave the guys/girls that are, the jobs that they actually want!

Lastly, the majority of my friends that work at my previous, hate every single day the alarm goes off to go to work! The company treats them badly, they work extremely hard and they get nothing more that what’s written in the basic contact they sign. The FO’s I know are probably on a combination of around 6 different contracts.

The proof is in the pudding as you can count the pilots that leave BA on one hand, that in itself says an awful lot, when Loco’s are loosing hundreds when the market starts moving!

If your keen to apply, I recommend you do so, I never looked back...

Just joined, Ellan?

Rusty - just because this outfit is better than your last, don’t preach to us about how good we have it.

We’ve had our t’s and c’s destroyed over the last few years so you can politely **** off. If you think that losing bidline is no big deal then you really need to examine why you joined BA.

I kinda hope your post is just a wind up. Sadly, you probably believe what you’ve written.

TBH I suspect Buter has a point, and I’m sure that if someone had joined from certain airlines where for example rosters instability was rife then for a time BA can appear brilliant, but at some point you have to look over the rose tinted glasses:

Saying we still have a document labelled Bidline is technically true but the “device” is a shadow of it’s former self.....it really is.
JSS....the new rostering system .. well aside from a select few has nobody has seen it function yet.
Hotels...ATM generally good, sure, but there is definitely an increasing downwards tendency in terms of location and quality as IAG screw down on the group hotel budget...
Staff travel.....I’m not sure many with families would describe it in Whickeresque terms...talking to some new joiners I gather the BA version is relatively quite limited but using it can certainly lead to some adventures.

Now most of the above, or similar would probably be standard gripes at any airline but until the last few years it was almost unheard of for people to join BA, give it a try and then return to their former outfit, or simply be mid career BA and decide to jump ship....The fact that that is now happening, even in small number, is a powerful indicator of how the airline has evolved.

If you are joining then like joining any airline make the most of what you have on day one.....I’m sure for many it is a great place to be now...

Cheers, CC.

Far more eloquent than myself, as always.

Buter - No, I’ve been in BA for 5 years having worked at 4 other airlines previously, so I’ve done the rounds.

Some of our colleagues have completely lost sight of what real life is like elsewhere in aviation and in careers outside of flying. The sense of entitlement that some hold is bizarre.

Buter

Why don’t just grow a pair and stand up for yourselves. BAs T&Cs will continue to fall downwards unless and until you threaten and actually do strike, to stop it. You are a bunch of whinging weaklings. There, I said it.

Makes for good reading

Quite - except I too joined BA from another airline. I however find it frightening that so many firmly believe that it’s some how wrong to feel a sense of entitlement simply because, ‘I’ve worked elsewhere, you have no idea how lucky you are, etc’.
EllanVannin - please explain why we shouldn’t be entitled to protect some of our T&C’s? Perhaps you’ll be happy nightstopping in an Ibis and only having enough money to Delsey dine?

Buter

All done and voted for by BA pilots! If loosing bidline was so bad then the union should never have recommended it and the pilots should not have voted yes. BA have taken advantage of a corrupt and week union and they have not implemented anything that has not been arrgeed by BALPA and the work force. And now they have a nicely divided work force I am sure the attacks won’t stop anytime soon, let’s see if BALPA can grow a pair and stop looking after themselves.

Some very negative BA comments here!
Depends what lifestyle you want and perhaps your previous Employer. Friend of mine lifestyle immensely improved. From Ex Military, poor pay, Hotac that would not be acceptable in airline life. Completely random unstable rostering etc.etc.
A couple of years in now after direct into BA LH. £70k ish, mainly 5 day trips with couple of days free down route (plenty of golf if that’s your bag) Mainly high quality hotels in the city.
Small fleet very social, no rubbish destinations. Although junior, complete roster stability after publication, and very easy trip swapping helps family arranging on days off at home.
Obviously plenty of night flying, but helped by one of the best flightdeck environment and crew rest facility in the business.
Some may prefer EZY and Ryan but “horses for courses”