Are easyJet going to reopen applications to non-TR'd experienced guys again next year?

GTIIB
 

So your an experienced pilot who is excited to pay 24k for a type rating to go on a salary of 38k a year?

Wow.

Antonov09,

As mentioned many times, its not £38k a year, its £38k for the first year.

Circa £53k years 2 and 3 (100% FO). £63k year 4 onwards (100% SFO). Approximate figures.

I am excited about the proposition of joining a successful and stable airline, flying a useful type and modern equipment. No, I don't want to have to pay for a rating, but show me anywhere else that is offering guys like myself, who fly RJs or props, the chance to move on to bigger, better paying equipment?

I've kept my posts to a minimum and I agree that certain topics on this thread are getting rather long in the tooth. After a lot of communication with easyJet I wanted to try and clarify, one last time, what has been offered.

On offer for the UK were two options, depending on assessment performance.

Flexi crew for 12 months with CTC then the possibility of permanent at the end of the 12 months. This is subject to completion of a second assessment and satisfactory performance over the year.

The other option is permanent employee from day one with the first 12 months as SO fixed at £38k with no sector pay. After 12 months move over to the FO pay scales.

As a permanent employee you can only join a UK base, so far only LGW offered to my knowledge, on a SO contract. It is not possible to go straight in as an FO or SFO. Obviously this is all applicable to non type rated guys!

easy:

What facts?

This whole debate is about possibilities or probabilities.

In the world where I live, I'm free to speak openly and express opinion. It's called expressing a democratic right.

Debate serves to expand the mind. You may want to try it some day. Normally there are two sides in a debate though, so you may need to get used to that part.

Let's see where this all heads in a while from now.

Good luck to all.

Narrow Runway - just to clarify, nothing in my reply accepts that easyJet tried or is going to try and reduce Captains' terms and conditions. It is totally self-evident that any employer only wants to pay what it can get away with. The key thing is what protections are in place - we have a lot and an undoubted willingness to fight any changes of the sort you believe will happen. A discussion of this kind is like saying, 'The reason an atom bomb did not drop at 2.00pm this afternoon was that two fairies appeared at the bottom of my garden'. It is not really provable one way or the other, and the statement therefore has to be evaluated on the balance of probabilities or past experience. All I can say is that at this stage, easyJet management are openly saying they will not attack UK Captains' salaries. We can debate this until the cows come home - that is what is being said and I see no change in sight. As an aside, I have personally heard it said among the highest easyJet managers that 'UK salaries are about right'. You can obviously choose to believe what you want about that, but at this stage all I can say is that I stand by my view that for the foreseeable future UK Captains' salaries are safe.

no point replying to someone who will not believe the facts unless they fit his own conspiracy theory.....

Justagigolo77. You are rapidly getting a reputation as bad as NR's. that of being delusional.

"Tossed aside"? Better to look a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt. Speak not of what you haven't a clue about.

The significance of this one line will not be lost on some:

Paraphrased, should it say

"As long as you don't touch Captain's contracts, offer what you like to new-joiners?"

Suffice to say, I know first-hand this is not an easy industrial issue to deal with, but I'm curious....

Phensocks: I'm not delusional, I'm a realist.

How can I be delusional when you look around at the industry and see the trends?

You've allowed Pandora's box to be opened and generally, it has unintended consequences.

I'm not going to argue with you. As I said, let's see what happens.

Stucano - you have to be on a permanent contract and have the minimum hours to apply for the command process. You do not have to hold a particular rank, although in practice you are more likely to be an SFO, but that is not a stated requirement. There are then a significant number of hoops to jump through before you become a Captain. None of them are based on who your mates are, your colour, race, beliefs, nationality or anything else. You need to be very competent and a credible future Captain - nothing more and nothing less. It is not therefore automatic, but we have we have more promotions per year than any other airline in the world that I know of. Every last one of them go on to the standard Captain's deal, despite the constant warnings from the likes of Narrow Runway. The only variation to that is those guys that take up the Lisbon deal, which is not very good but offers the advantage of getting a command sooner than might otherwise have been the case - horses for courses etc.

For practical purposes we run a seniority system for command, although the word 'seniority' is banned from our vocabulary! The seniority system comes into play when you register your name for pre-command and get the appropriate interview. At that point you are frozen on a list and the date your name was placed on that list determines the order in which you will be offered a command course subsequently, subject to successful completion of the assessment process. It is about as fair as you could hope for and the vast majority of people are successful. The downside is that you have to go where the command vacancies are - that is more often than not Gatwick. If you have a wife and kids in Milan or wherever, that can be a problem. If you are waiting to get back to a popular base, you may wait a long time as vacancies only rarely occur. To change base you just put your name on the Transfer List, and when your name comes up you can accept or decline the offer. As you might expect, tensions can arise and there are not always easy answers. For example, when the Madrid base closed the guys there got put ahead of all the transfer listed people to move to bases of their choice - a great deal if you are in Madrid, but pretty grim if you were Number 1 on the list and found 10 guys now in front of you taking up the only free slots that had appeared for years! This is a vast subject that is largely outside the scope of this thread, but I hope that helps. No system is perfect but it is very transparent, and no more can you ask for.

You remind me of my gran. "£1.39 for a coffee?! You could buy a bicycle for that in my day!"

Times have changed. It's great that you never paid extra for a type rating but the unfortunate truth is that nowadays airlines don't offer what they used to. I honestly don't know what they offer in Canada, but right now, in the UK, it is all but impossible for someone without a type rating to get a job. Nobody is fooling themselves.

So is exaggeration, and the prisoner's dilemma. Neither of which you seem to have grasped.

Haha you've given me a good giggle, thanks. The "prisoners dilemma" is just an example in game theory applied to group decisions like refusing to pay for type ratings. The circumstances are interchangeable, it's not actually about going to prison! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/embarass.gif And you say I'm dumb?

Prisoner's dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It very obviously applies to this situation and explains how individuals rationally make decisions in their own best interest (not necessarily selfishly) by following a logic path, that cause detriment to the group as a whole. Ie, if everyone refused to pay for type ratings yes things would improve. But you can't guarantee everyone does it, so the best decision for any one individual is to pay for type rating.

But sure, you keep swearing and insulting swathes of pilots with each post you make :D

It's a tough situation over here though. UK doesn't have the GA route to the airlines that N America has (which is a huge shame). Going to Africa won't get UK pilots into a jet job. You'll get some valuable experience building your skills for sure, but generally airlines require jet time on type or contribution to type rating, so once you get back you're in the same position you left with.

AirFrance is a major. So following the gigolo's logic, the passenger would be safer on the 49€ flight than the 250€ one.

36 years old and 20 different types. Stable career :rolleyes:

justagiglio77 - At the risk of seeming rude, may I politely suggest you are over-contributing to this thread. From what I can see, you are a 36 year-old Canadian gift to aviation, with a stroke of genius, who has blessed numerous airlines with your presence and gained countless type ratings in the process. Awestruck as we all are, this thread is for people who want to know about joining a humble little outfit called easyJet and who want to discuss terms and conditions with informed people - of whom you are not one. I am not a genius, and nor am I a gift to aviation. I do, however, have one critical asset that you do not - I know all about easyJet as I have worked there many years. Perhaps you may grace us all with your 'insights' on another occasion, and allow others with a more realistic likelihood of working here to have their say.

What a horrid, cliche spouting sort you are. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Blantoon,

Just a small point, you say that the UK doesn't have the GA route to airlines.

Well, it did until really quite recently. Then the whole thing changed in the blink of an eye.

What started as a trickle, soon became a stream, then a river, then an out of control torrent of individuals willing to accept the "easy" route (no pun intended) to the RHS of a Boeing/Airbus etc etc.

Just an observation, but GA was a way into the regionals until recently and from those regionals, those pilots could move up into the more mainstream, even occasionally, major airlines.

Not any more. That valid career path is dead. Forever.

And that is a shame.