Any recruitment likely at Easy?
 

Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on the chances of Easy doing any recruitment for experienced crews in the coming months, given that they are supposedly under crewed now, they must be losing their fair share to the Middle East, BA set to recruit next month, Virgin are rumoured to be looking before the end of the year so Easy will surely lose (as will other airlines of course) some experienced flight deck.

Will these lost crews be replaced with Low houred cadets or will Easy have to replace some of their lost experience?

Would be interested to hear the views of anyone in the know.

Thanks

Short answer

YES

Long answer, only for those who have spent some time already operating on the CTC flexi-crew contract or for those who have paid an extortionate amount through PARC aviation/oxford.

Anyone self-respecting pilots who are not willing to line the pockets of CTC need not apply.

regards

FPS

FPS

Thanks for the upfront info, a shame all the same but not surprised sadly!!

Cheers

SO the rumour that easy have had 250 resignations recently aren't true then.

That is not to say that things won't change. We have already been operating with insufficient crew as has been evident this year. When the exodus happens, we will no doubt have to start looking outside of first officer "cash cows" and recruit people with experience and self-respect.

here's hoping

250 resignations?? I am not in the know regarding recruitment / resignations or anything "managmenty" however 250 resignations from 1500 pilots in the company gives an instantaneous resignation rate of about 16.5% and in my humble opinion seems excessive. Assuming that most of the resignations would be from F/Os and that they account for half the pilots, say 200 from 750 F/Os that is a resignation rate of 27%. Basic maths with wild assumptions but I would say that it highly unlikely. But, then again, I am only a gash shag line pilot so what do I know??

FPS

Well time will tell I guess. I'd actually quite like to work for a company like Easy if they ever go back to offering something decent.

I shall not be doing anything that involves taking the lid off the KY Jelly in order to join!!:sad:

For those holding out hope of DEP at easy I would suggest look elsewhere. There have been rumours that we will be losing huge numbers of pilots to Emirates and others over the last few months simply have not materialized; even after a self inflicted chaotic summer. There are some departures but not enough for the present system of P2F system not to cope with. If this holds out once BA start to recruit is anybodies guess. Dilution of experience in the RHS does not seem to be an important factor at the moment. A long list of suitably qualified SFOs ready for the LHS means that experience levels of newly upgraded Captains has never been greater. This also has the effect of trapping these experienced SFOs as they wait to log 1000+ hours of command time before looking at their next option. Of course when all these reasons start to unwind themselves the company could really struggle but that is not going to happen soon. At the moment there does not seem to be a reason for the company to adjust it's present recruitment policy. That does not mean that it is right but these are my thoughts. I can only imagine the frustration of those pilots waiting for their next step on the ladder at small charter, freighter and flying clubs up and down the country as well as ex military pilots approaching their option points. Reports of Boeing estimating an extra 1M pilots/engineers in the next 10-20 years may be true but the expansion will be on the other side of the earth not in western Europe. Sorry if that seems downbeat but unless you are a newly minted cadet off one of the approved production lines there are very few good prospects available.

And just to clear something up, I am on a Parc contract at the mo, and no I have never spent any money. In fact I take a permanernt position at EZY at the end of October, and I take a huge paycut for that. But yes I agree not a good place to work, and this sort of thing should not happen, but when faced with redundancy earlier this year apart from moving abroard, I was stuck for choices! Please don't confuse an experienced contract pilot with a cadet, wholly different things.

SinBin - you may have ideas above yourself. No one forced you to work for easyJet and there are literally hundreds of pilots queuing up to take your place. From your tone you are clearly one of the BMI guys who faced redundancy earlier this year and were fortunate enough to be picked up by easyJet rather than go to the Middle East or onto the dole. For reasons I cannot understand you and some of your colleagues feel that easyJet is now beneath you, despite being offered preferential permanent contracts. You also feel there is some distinction between 'experienced contract pilots' like yourself and 'cadets' who are 'wholly different things'. You are indeed correct - cadets getting permanent contracts are delighted whereas you just hate easyJet and whine and bleat the whole time about how much you hate working here. Presumably you once had to undergo some sort of flying training to reach your current 'Grand Master' status and were once 200 hour pilots, even if only for a day. A number of our 'cadets' are now getting experienced too - many have had several seasons with us. Feel free to leave any time and return to a company that has, tragically, no strategic plan, no future and little hope. I genuinely feel sad that you and your colleagues have not enjoyed your time here and are desperate to leave. Having had so many negative BMI pilots who now want to bite the hand that fed them I will be surprised if we repeat the exercise in the future. I hope the promised land turns out not to be a disastrous graveyard of broken promises and misplaced hope. EasyJet, for all it's failings, is flying loads of brand new Airbuses, full of passengers, to all sorts of varied and interesting destinations. No, it's not perfect, but you would be hard put not to have at least some enjoyment doing it.

Regarding the recruitment issue, I concur with others - there are a lot of flexicrew pilots on the books now and there is a lot of slack in the system. The numbers of resignations are a closely guarded secret, and clearly there are more to come if Emirates, Etihad, BA and Virgin all start recruitment simultaneously. Nonetheless, my best guess is that we have had around 50+ resignations thus far - not enough to generate a problem.

From my ten aircraft base there has been one - single - FO resignation to go to the Sandpit.

I detect a lot more interest in the impending BA recruitment though.

However, CTC still have a hold pool. Courses in New Zealand have been filled every month and some of the courses are quite large >14. The end result being a very healthy supply of replacement Flexi-cadets. It is highly arousing for the Beancounters when they replace an experienced SFO with a Flexicrew Cadet..

Fair play to CTC, they didn't let any of their hold pool swimmers drown and they seem to have judged the demand side of the curve well enough to avoid a shortfall in supply.


WWW

Yes, not just easyjet, but throughout the industry, accountants are are increasingly exploiting the cost savings of replacing an experienced First officer with a much cheaper and contractualy flexible cadet.

As pockets of expansion appear in regional markets, and movement is stimulated as a result of that and some pent up routine turnover, opportunities for change and improvement can only be a good thing in the short term. Overseas markets will seek and pay for the experience, however in the longer term it is hard to imagine that (the same ex-pat') accountants in those companies are not also casting an eye on taking advantage of similar cost reductions.

Please explain to me why EasyJet are canx flights daily or leasing in other aircraft, being quite clearly short of pilots to run a proper schedule.
Surely they must begin to recruit soon to avoid anymore damage to their reputation.
Seems at though the bean counters are playing with fire!

NSF, I'm sorry but what is your point? How very conceited. Tell me, you say we got preferential treatment, how long was it until you got a command, were you ahead of people who were less experienced but had been in the company longer? In your opinion then you had an unfair advantage too. If you think that unfair treatment of anyone is acceptable then that's your problem, you clearly have a vendetta against me and my friends and colleagues (and thank goodness you are in the minority as everyone I meet and fly with is very supportive), I hope to God I don't fly with you!

PAPI-74
The company have got it wrong this summer. However, do not mistake being undercrewed through mismanagement with a perfectly legitimate use of charter services to ease us through peak demands rather than have surplus crews for 10 months of the year. This is how to maximize your assets, reduce costs and remain competitive. In the case of ezy the recruitment ban was introduced by the previous CEO no doubt to further his own performance bonus. The blame therefore lies with the then CEO and the AMB that supported him. So we can not blame the beancounters for the miserable summer that crews, staff and customers have just experienced.
I would not expect the company to make any kneejerk reaction to the last few months by opening up the recruitment process; there is no need. Expansion has been reduced, attrition is manageable (at the moment) and there is a ready supply of Cadets. The training department stepped up to the plate at short notice to carry out far more initial and upgrade courses than was originally planned. There is a small increase in the number of trainers to cope with a more realistic number of courses being run over the next 6-8 months. I am sorry to say that there is no need for recruiting DEPs at the moment. The harsh reality is that the environment, at the moment, favours the management. Whilst supply of newly qualified FOs exceed demand all companies will take advantage. Those that do not are failing their shareholders. This is a basic business principle.

Oh well that is OK then. I'll just tell the wife to stock up on Super-Noodles then. I'm sure the kids won't mind till the airlines want experienced pilots once more.;)

Utter tosh. Thats the blinkered attitude that bought the world to the brink of financial suicide last year. Most modern MBA's and admin wallahs can't see the world outside of their own very narrow and very poor education and experience. There is quite alot more to running a successful and enduring business than an blinkered obsession on the bottom line. Yes you can make a fast buck like this, but it won't last long.

And yes, I do run my own business as well as flying for a living. And no I don't treat people like piggy banks or cash cows.

Totally agree 757 Driver,well said.I too ran a successful business before becoming involved in aviation,and I'm still shocked on a daily business at the sham attitudes and naivety of aviation management decisions.Not sure why it's quite so bad,maybe because alot of it is made up of pilots or frustrated wannabees,whatever the reason,headless chickens comes to mind.

:eek: !!

So we are recruiting cadets by the hundreds, but we cannot recruit experienced pilots? We have never recruited so many cadets. In fact I am wondering if any company has ever hired so many cadets in the whole history of aviation (except Ryanair perhaps, but they are hardly an example to follow ). Are we sure we are not playing with fire here?

Perhaps there is a reason why most "proper" airlines recruit from a number of different experience profiles? It's called balancing the experience levels, it is the cornerstone of aviation recruitment. Once again our orange managers think they know better - I sincerly hope this will not end in tears, as a still need my pilot job until I graduate from my MBA:E

Another 44 cadets started their type rating last month, and quite a few SFO sent to the command course. This is how they are planning to solve the crew level problem, at least for the winter period.

But rumours say Mrs McCall is upset with the cost of the insurance policy going up because of the low experience level of EZY crew on the flight deck...

Meanwhile, she said the company needs more people, making the share drop by 6% after this announcement on the LSE.

For the moment, the only way in is via CTC or Parc, on the RHS.
If I were an experienced FO working for EZY for 5 or 6 years, I'd be quite upset to see the company hiring DEC to be honest...

......can't deny that reading most of the above is sad indeed - i will admit to having a huge desire to join Easy myself if i made the grade (purely selfish reasons including pay, roster and travelling time etc.) - now from what i read (and hear and interpret myself), it appears that for anyone with any kind of experience (me 860 hrs total, 560 jet/multi-crew), the future is definitely not changing, in fact i personally now believe things will never return to a point where this is a viable career.
As an aside, does anyone recall the conversations you used to have saying the hardest thing to do in this industry is get that first job ?? and how when you accrue approx. 500 hrs multi-crew/jet, that doors then start to open ?? to me, that all seems to have changed and it now appears that unless your a guy/gal with 2000+ hrs with a boeing/airbus rating of some kind (500+hrs on type of course), or a newly minted cadet willing to be raped senseless, the market for anyone inbeetween is effectively - well nothing ??!!! or am i just not looking in the right places ??
So, anyone in a similar position to me agree ?? are you finding a similar situation out there in job land ?? are you looking at other career options ?? just being nosey i guess but curious as well.

Yeh similiar position for sure. 1750TT / 1500hrs+on the 737, door shut at Easy, Ryanair, Jet2 don't seem interested, not enough for Emirates and wouldn't work for my family situation anyway, will fall way short on hours for Virgin too. Ba yes but no question competition will be very tough so if you don't get in where do you go??????

A bizarre industry for sure........:(

As you say it used to just be tough at the start, now you get screwed in order to get into the industry and screwed again when you want to move up too, until the flow of "minted cadets" dries up it is not going to change, the mad thing is those same cadets will be in the same position in 2-3yrs with no where to go either apart from VA or BA in the UK or the otherside of the world.......!! There won't be room at those companies for us all!!:{

Good luck

It occurs to me that there are potential problems, being dependent on large numbers of low houred cadets in the short term. When the companies already mentioned, start to recruit in earnest, there will surely be a situation where experience levels start to affect day to day operations.
If sufficient numbers of experienced commanders decide to move elsewhere, you will require replacements who are able to be 'paired' with the low houred cadets.
Whilst there has been a downturn companies have been able to avoid this problem, due to a lot of people 'riding out the storm' but as the jobs market improves and movement starts to happen, I would suggest that minimum experience levels on specific flights will come into play. Therefore the current recruitment policies may well not be as black and white as the 'beancounters' think.

Hey guys and girls don't shoot the messenger. If you read my posts you will be in no doubt that I disagree with what is happening regarding recruitment. If you prefer I could spin you something like "I predict in the next 6 months we will be offering TRSS DEP contracts to 100 pilots in the pool" but I regret to say that this would be wrong, raise too many hopes and may prevent some from making plans based on better quality information. As for dismissing some harsh commercial reality as tosh - well the facts speak for themselves. Recruiting cadets at the moment is the flavour of the month.
I too run a small business in my spare time but there is no way I can translate any of my experiences by simply scaling it up by a factor of a few thousand and I doubt anyone reading these pages could do so either.
Anyway I have said enough in this thread, I am truly sorry if my words have dashed any faint glimmer of hope but if I was in that position I would rather work with as accurate information as possible. Good luck to all those seeking their next step.

First Officer,

I think you make a very good point. When I was starting out it was the same, how could one possibly get a foot on the ladder without at least 1000hrs experience.. How do you get that experience without having placed that foot on the ladder? It appeared a vicious circle, with no way in..

How many other industries would consider that the more experience you gain, the less attractive you are as an employment proposition? Become a Registrar at a hospital, and find yourself costed out of the job by a junior doctor.... mmm

LIkewise if I was to cross a bridge i would want to know that the designer had had a lot of experience before being allowed to be let loose on such a safely critical item...., not just a university graduate.

It is a measure of the industry, and the skills of the existing flight decks that so many "junior pilots" have been absorbed without any major problems..

I wonder how the Accountants and managers would react if they found out that they were being replaced by graduates with no experience who'd just finished their degrees in Accountancy and Management because they could be paid less for their lack of experience......???!!!:E:E

I'm sure they'd understand it made good business sense and was right for the business and the shareholders!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Mmm...I think not!!

CTC will be training 200+ cadets over the winter to cover the 200+ FO and Captain resignations.

This from a senior CTC training captain I flew with back in July; make of it what you will...............

Im going to open a flight training school... 200 x100,000 = nice early retirement.....

Yes, I guess so.

CTC used to be lovingly mocked as standing for, "Captains Taking Cash".

This would now appear to be truer than ever if it is £100,000 per person !

.....sorry if i appear a little too negative, and certainly wasn't reacting to your post Pitot - was just remarking really on my observations with regard to what has happened out there in the marketplace since i started in aviation 10years or so ago. Admittedly i've only been flying commercially for about 3-4 years since i got my first job and in the biz-jet world and at my low level it can take an awful lot of positioning and general messing/buggering about to get the few hours i have today, hence my frustration at how the goal posts have now moved (again ! lol). Still, that's life i guess - and my only problem now is that with the hours i have, it appears that i am worth absolutely bugger all to anyone lol - i appreciate i am lucky to have a job, i genuinely mean that, but the frustration i guess mainly comes from how i was led to believe as we all gained experience, we should generally become more employable in the long-term etc. - seems now it has more to do with whether or not i can get the cash/loan etc. to move my career forward - and i'm not playing that bloody game for starters !
Anyone else out there agree or am i just a plain miserable old git ??

Craggenmore.

Is that 200 including the 40 odd that ctc are type rating at the moment?

If not, that could potentially be 240 inexperienced cadets at easy in around half a year! :eek:

BA in peak late 1990's were taking 240 ish cadets per year. Given that their shorthaul fleet was, and still is, far far smaller than easyJets.. If you contend EZY are playing with fire then BA must have been soaked in petrol dancing around an African campfire smoking a sparkler..


WWW

But what was the experience level like in the LHS at BA at the time? Ours is rapidly going down and down. Some crew pairings at the moment are not appropriate and new skippers have to spell out the risk to crewing to get it changed, sometimes in small words spoken slowly and possibly written in crayon to get through the " it's legal " and " no violations" standard replies!

Ah yes but did BA at the same time prohibit the employment of experienced pilots? (honest question). Also, can we really compare a BA or LH, or AF cadet with one of our cadets? LH or AF for instance have complete control of their cadet's training from initial recruitment to final line check. What control have we got regarding the "final product". I doubt a LH cadet spends 6 months in the winter doing f-all.
I know for a fact that many colleagues find the CTC cadet product inconstitent: some very good, some quite bad (some of our colleagues have become experts in the TOGA-10 manoeuver:}).

Further more to the BA cadet argument, the BA Cadet Pilot Programme displayed complete commitment from BA. Remember those were the days when BA paid for the training...

The selection was extremely rigorous too, and the ability of the pupil to pay had no say in success... either to get on the course or to pass it.

What I dont understand is where are all these people getting the money from? I could understand it when the banks were lending and property equity was rising but now? Surely there can't just be a never ending supply out there.

To all you experienced pilots who are now finding it hard to get an F/O job due to the whole P2F thing, why dont you do something about it. The unions are the ones that can stop this but they won't listen to the unemployed 200 hour fATPL's and the captains out there don't seem to care as its not affecting them (yet). It would appear to me that you guys are the ones that should be rallying the unions against this before you find yourselves being replaced by a profit making cadet.

I don't know the answer to this question.

easyJet also has a current NTC out asking for interested Captains to put their names down for forthcoming Training Captain upgrade courses.

Something is up........

Prophead

What I dont understand is where are all these people getting the money from? I could understand it when the banks were lending and property equity was rising but now? Surely there can't just be a never ending supply out there.

Interestingly I noticed CTC are now launching a "Take Off " scheme which is part-time Modular to spread the cost!!! Why would they do that if enough people were able to afford the full-time course??

As you say where the hell are people getting the money.....:ugh:

757 Man so you run your own business as well as being an aviator.
Sounds like to much time off to me......:\

If they are only just in the process of expanding the training cadre then they will not be in a position to expand the training commitment for something in the region of 6-9 months at a guess whilst the existing trainers train the new intake of trainee-trainers, and all are in a position to take new intake crews into the training system. Sounds like a bit of a game of catch up to me.

CTC
 

So, I must have been imagining the email today.

Upcoming DEC A320 Captain positions, UK & Europe.

Interesting times ahead.