Hopefully for the better....:ok:

Hey all,

I've been watching from the wings so to speak as this thread has developed, thought i'd share my experience of the last few weeks.

I'm a CTC graduate, finished training there in June. Saw ad for jet2 mid Aug, applied, and had email saying to apply thru the jet2 website when it opened. I dutifully waited for the website to become live, and filled out the app for inexperience FO, non-TR.

I have 260hrs total time, MCC and JOC on 737-300. (last flew 12th August, finished training in June). Got a call about Sept 1st, to organise a phone screening. Phone screening Sept 3rd, this consisted of a 10-15min chat with a 737 captain, mostly seeming to confirm availability and whether i could/would pay for a TR, and whether i would take a 70% contract. 14th Sept I got a call confirming whether I had a JOC, asking how many hours in the sim I had for MCC and JOC.

Thurs 16th, I had a call to arange a selection day in Leeds for either Mon 20th or Wed 22nd Sept.

Attended selection on Wed 22nd, the introduction stating that there were over 650 applicants for the inexperienced non-type rated application band. there were about 20 at my selection day, a mix of newly qualified modular guys, a few oxford int guys, a guy from cabair, a guy from fte, a guy currently working as an instructor...so contrary to pprune rumour, a good mix of backgrounds and experience being looked at.

During the interview at the selection day, I was asked about availability again, as the first TR course was pencilled in for Oct 4th. Things appeared to be moving very quickly with this round of recruitment.

We were told that we'd get a call today, and right enough I got a call about 1400 to thank me for my time, and that i should be pleased with how far I got, but that unfortunately they thought I wasnt quite experienced enough, and invited me to re-apply next time.

Obviously, I'm gutted. However, this was my first application that went somewhere, so I wasn't really expecting anything to come of it. I was shocked i was being contacted, let alone considered.

So why this post? I watched with frustration as people posted "applied, been a week, heard nothing, sorry guys, they arent taking 250hr cadets"
and "they are only taking Oxford guys" and "how dare they not contact me, its been a week, they could have the decency to get in touch" when things couldnt be more different. I felt things moved very quickly, and clearly with over 650 for this band alone, they are going to contact people they are interested in first, and physically cant contact everyone to explain whats going on.

Take what you read on here with a pinch of salt. Alot is rumour and opinion-bear that in mind. I've tried to keep to the facts here, and hopefully you will see that it can be you. Go for it, apply, you never know how it will go.

Good luck all.

Assessment
 

What was the tech quiz like and what did they ask at interview?

Robbo thanks for the good post!

The usual interview questions, and I found the tech paper quite hard. I think that I did fairly poorly on it, it was quite specific. Aorund 40 questions, 30 mins to complete. I'm not going to sit here and list the questions, after all, I didn't have any info, and I'm going to reapply next time...:)

Suffice it to say, you need to know your stuff. To the guys that got the positions, hats off to you. For all the slagging on here, Jet2 seem a good company, and for a 250hr cadet, I think theyre offering a good deal. Granted pay for TR, and 70% contract, but think of it as an apprenticeship. I'm working on an offshore oil platform for only a little more money. I know what i'd rather be doing. Awaiting flak, you may fire when ready...

Assessment
 

ROBBO , Well thanks for not much regarding the assessment day. I have been in aviation a long time now and most people would be as helpful as possible for the next guy behind(team player?). I have personally provided F/O,s with detailed information regarding assessments I failed! May there,s another reason why you failed jet ?

ROBBO - incoming!!! I don't know how enamoured you are with your rig job but did you pay Oil Co £17K for the privilege of working on thier rig and were you on a restricted contract?

Without a united stand (fanatasy, I know) Jet2 and its like will continue to spread the P2F cancer and continue to reap its quite healthy profits at your expense.:ugh:

Anyone who thinks Jet2 are offering a good deal needs a f*cking lobotomy!

Pay £20k to join the company and then only get paid what, £26k?

Are you serious?! I think you are joking.

Tragic
 

No wonder Meeson, O'Leary and whoever is at the top of the orange one are rubbing there hands. To think that this insult of a deal is actually good "cos I'm only a 250 hour cadet" insults the whole of this industry. You probably got the result you deserved but I almost wish you had got the job just to see how long it would be before you started complaining about how badly you were treated.
Word to the wise: it is sop to help others where possible. None I repeat none of us would have progressed an inch in this industry but for those going before us. Shame on you.

Jet2 Recruiting now
 

Got turned down today said no to 20-25k type rating 757 70% rosta and was also asked would i be prepared to relocate up north i asked do i have to pay for the vaseline aswell, shuv it jet2.:mad:
good luck

J

Assessment
 

Thanks for the heads up. Reckon I,m going to be offered same (assuming I pass tech/group exercise) with same response. If most people react same manner is it worth them interviewing until they offer proper t&c s?

JASPA

"Got turned down today said no to 20-25k type rating 757 70% rosta and was also asked would i be prepared to relocate up north i asked do i have to pay for the vaseline aswell, shuv it jet2."

Huge pat on the back Jaspa, :D the more people like you who do this the faster the industry will move out of the quagmire!!!

Robbo0885

I was in your position just 3 years ago and managed to get on a Jet with a similar outfit same type on a much better deal than the one offered by Jet2 as the market was much more buoyant.
I fear after 6-8 weeks of working a full on Summer roster at 100% for 70% pay of 11-13hr days, earlies to lates, min rest back to earlies, changes to your roster, days off recovering........you may not think what Jet2 offer is so good. It is great to have the enthusiasm for the job but don't De-value yourself and what you have achieved by gaining your licence, the investment you have made in time, money and ability and make the mistake of thinking what Jet2 (and others) are offering 250hr guys is good, it is crap!! You just don't realise it until 3-6 months down the line after the novelty of flying a jet has worn off.........:\

All:

Ok, tech questions, very specific. 3 multiple choice answers. Example: Red and white runway centreline lights are found on the last a. 900m b.300m c.150m
Seemed mostly Ops and Perf type q's with a few PoF and Instrs, what do you expect? Theyre all ATPL questions, its a tech paper for an airline after all. What did take me by surprise was the depth to which the questions probed, and i certainly didnt expect q's like the example i have given.

Teamwork, well you need to select your team. I have a group of friends who have applied, and will apply next time too if not succesful i'd imagine. I'm not gonna give the whole of pprune the edge when I can give it to them now, am I? :ok:

Rig job-I hate it. I worked 2 years to get the experience, paid aobut £1000 for certification etc, and got a contract that is paid by the day offshore. No guarantee of trips. This is the way it works for thefirst year, then you tend to be able to get a steady rotation, 2 weeks on, 3 off. (and for the time being, you're on about half the wage of those guys, although you are doing the same job, and more hours).

I was due to do a 2 week trip recently, had check in time for heliport, all job info. 12hrs before my check in, the job was cancelled. No pay, no alternative, just the next two weeks sat at home playing alot of Xbox and waiting for the phone to ring. Would I pay half my average offshore salary so that I could fly for a job, yes if i cant do it otherwise. to earn 26k, yeah, probably, cos I want to do it. Will I be earning 26k in 5 years? Unlikely. Small term pain, long term gain. Get it in perspective folks, nothing is ever perfect.

Thats about all I have, I tried just fact and I'm now going heavily into opinion, so for that reason, I'm out. Take what you will from my copule posts, hopefully some of you find it helpful.

Reload, wait for it....commence fire!

People are moaning about 70% contracts and 25k up front ? However this is where the industry is since moons ago people offered to pay for type ratings or pay to fly schemes at Easyjet and previous airlines that offered such schemes. Unfortunately the rot set in years ago when those keen young things offered 25k up front, strangely those keen young things 5 years on are complaining about the state of the industry. What you sow, so you shall reap.

So you have 250hrs and a JOC course and absolutely no commercial airline experience and are jumping into the right hand seat of a Jet sounds like a great deal to me. In the dim and distant it was turboprops to learn your craft and then get a jet job. It seems now every 250hour cadet feels they are ready to step into a right seat jet and that an airline should be falling over themselves to roll out the red carpet and offer them a right seat ride. Sometimes you have to make a little sacrafice to get where you want in aviation, in the past that was instructing for peanuts,air charter work for even less peanuts and then if lucky a turboprop job on a small amount of peanuts. Remember what you have to offer at 250 hours, a licence and not a lot of experience. So what do you need ? An airline that will give you that experience. Jet2 will give you that, lots of flying, lots of flying to a wide variety of locations,lots of ad-hoc charter work,lots of visual approaches (yes the autopilot is taken out before 1 mile and the aircraft is flown) and the support of a lot experienced captains. There are no old dragons at Jet2 the captains here want you to do well.

Yes its initially a 70% but what has not been mentioned or has been lost in all the moaning, all captains who were 70% this year have been offered full time most of the temporary contracts have been offered full time. What does that tell you ???

The company is expanding, yes people are moving on, people are getting promoted to the LHS, no seniority list of 10 years to command, lots of good solid hard flying that is perfect if you have the grand total of 250 hours in your log book.

So look past all the moaning and see the big picture, i would bet that in 2/3 years time the 70% contract may not be 70%, you will have 1800 hours good solid flying on a 737 and you are then starting to look at how long till the LHS.

This is not a job advert but just trying to redress and balance some of the moans.

Robbo - well done a post of sense.

What do you mean by 70% contracts and what is the pay rate for FOs? At FR the First Officers in STN are all flying 80+ hours a month - do you think of that as 80%.

Did anybody get the job? (Even though you are buying your way in)

RA STN
70% is the pay you recieve compared compared to a full time FO on a 100% contract but you only work 7 months of the year ( Apr-Oct ).

I believe a full time FO gets just over £40K so 70% of that is around £28K. If you have to pay £20K for a TR then you are left to live on £8K in the first year. Its more than the dole but not by much.

I would think that with BA, GSS, and all in the Middle East already recruiting and rumours of many more recruiting soon in the UK then Jet2 will have to up their game in terms of conditions. I expect that they will have some of their full time Capts and FOs will be applying to BA etc which will increase there recruitment needs.

Regards

I think the lesson hidden in here is not to make a move too quickly.
Every dog has his day and 3000+hrs TP will mean something again soon.

Recruiting
 

Hi everyone.

Just wanted to say to all of you that despite having hours these days it is not as easy as you think to find jobs. Unfortunately the industry has suffered significantly in the last couple of years which has meant changes to T&C's. This is just a reality. They will hopefully change but before they do the industry in the UK will need to pick up. J2 are only doing what many already do, the likes of FR and EZY have changed our market for good. Now with FlyBe and J2 going down the route they are all capitalising on the poor conditions.
Ok all with slight differences but remember XL also did the same by taking on cadets and effectively giving them half pay to pay for the rating. TCX do the same. Before anyone shouts as I said all slightly differently.
Low houred guys and girls are very appealing as they are mouldable and very willing to take terrible contracts to get a foothold on the industry ladder.
Where and when it will end who knows. Speaking as an experienced FO there aren't many opportunities if you want to stay in the UK for whatever reason. To name a few the airlines that I can no longer apply are FR, Easy, FlyBe. In a decent market maybe TCX but unlikely with a 73 rating, Thomson and First Choice are out as they are down sizing and have just made 130 odd redundant. Monarch well, certainly not anytime soon. So you see there just aren't the jobs!
My advice take them if they are offered and you can make it financially work for you. I know many will disagree but until the industry changes the airlines wont!

... more pilots worldwide needed in the future ... 600,000 in 20 years = 30,000 per year worldwide! It seems a lot! How many pilots the current worldwide market can train per year?

That means whoever has any experience got the job, who doesn't, will be stuck in training!

Global airline industry poised to soar in coming decades - International Business Times

J2 Type Rating
 

Anybody shed some light on the terms of the type rating deal with J2? Are they expecting you to pay upfront in full and then nothing in return? Or do they pay the type rating back to you over a set number of months once you start on the line? Otherwise, there would be no bond.

73addict
 

Sorry to hear you and many others have found the past couple of yrs v tough job wise however, the info you post is over 12mths old and times are changing.

With Emirates, BA, Lufthansa Italia, Openskies and Virgin all taking on new pilots soon (if not already), and locos like J2 seeking part timers this is a really positive move compared to Sept 2008 - 2009. Air Berlin just took on 50 plus and they pay for the TR.

Once the bigger firms start, those lower down the food chain can expect some crumbs from the table. The problem is the past 5-10 yrs of low houred folk trying to jump the queue to jet airliners through PFTR schemes rather than having patience and working up the old self improver route of instructing, GA, glider towing, turboprop freight etc. Expectations have been way too high from those who recently graduated from "approved" courses. Good luck to them but lets hope airlines recruit those Tfly and other experienced guys and gals first.

Angelorange - nonsense mate, absolute nonsense.

angelorange
 

I'm afraid I do not agree with your comments in response to mine. My post is still very current. All the airlines I stated are in the same situation today as I said.
The ones you refer to well here it goes. Emirates yes they are recruiting but it is Dubai based and I am afraid to say that there does not appear to have been much recruitment as a result of them recruiting. I know directly that Easy and FR lost a fair number of crew and yet will not recruit FO. Yes it will have an effect but not substantial enough for the UK to recover. BA not yet! Apparently 1st Oct though not official until their website opens. Therefore UK still in the same position. Virgin, again not yet and when they do you will need the best part of 4000hrs, also not in the numbers to make a significant change so many an FO stuck again. Openskies think it is 4000hrs again so as with Virgin. Crumbs they will definitely be and they will not change the Charters significantly as thy are a different business model and not seasonal as charter will always be.
Unfortunately the mind set of new cadets is not their fault but a combination of ambition and the sales pitch we are all fed to join them. They have you believing you can complete the training and go straight to jet. This is the way they sell themselves and their "approved" courses. The fact is that it still happens for newbies into the right seat of a jet and until our aviation laws change like those of the US and Canada, 1500hrs, people will always aspire to go straight there.
J2 are only doing what everyone else is doing and for as long as there are surplus crew available to jump in it wont change. Why would they? Yes the T&C's are not good and we are all being devalued however our time will come but not yet.
Good luck to all who accept as they will be in the right place to gain experience and time in the right seat for the market to change.

Happy to be invited for the assessment.
Anybody who can give me a bit of info about the ATPL questions and the group exercises.
Thanks:ok:

Been a member for some years but never posted before.
Don't understand why people wouldn't share info but I will!
Anyway, I was there last wednesday:

Tech (30min):
Hard q's but all performance;
- rwy lights
- climb gradient normal sid and after g/o ( 3,3% and 2,5% ?)
- hold speed @ Fl120
- V2 = 1.2* Vs
- Vref = 1.3 Vs
- Hold entry after course given
- Def. wet rwy and contaminated rwy
- Fwd CG compared to aft
- What alt does GPWS uses
- alt reading 0-2500 0-3000 or 50-2500ft?
- g/a procedure after circling
- what is a stable approach (incl max sinkrate)

40q's and 3 possible answers given...

Group exercise(30min):
Landed on the moon and have to travel 200nm to mothership to survive. List 15 items (most important #1 etc)
First u have 10min to make your own list then 20min to make a list with the group you're in (group = appr. 5)

Interview (1h):
The usual but make sure you know Jet2's background/goals and tell somethings about Philip Meeson/Dart Group.
Know what's going on in the world of aviation as they want you to name 3 things (what was last crash etc)


Anyway, this was my story!
Unfortunately I didn't get the job but hope to be helpfull to others!

Iwashere thank you very much!
I really appreciate the info shared.:ok::ok::ok:

Listen boys be advised that Jet2 management are aware that tech paper questions and assessment scenarios will be and have been posted on here.
Don't be surprised if there are a number of different tech papers as a result. My advice to you guys is hold out as long as you can until superior outfits start to recruit. The last thing you want is to be tied here when the BA's and Easy's start to recruit. I know this is difficult to turn down if it's a first job, but things will never improve until !!!!! offers like this are rejected. When they start treating their exsisting staff correctly, you people just might get a look in.:\

BA to recruit from Friday, need approx 100 guys for the short-haul fleet, preference being given to A320, B737 & B757 guys. Could make things a little more interesting.

Any movement and recruitment is G:rolleyes:;)D

Jet2 is a good company with a healthy business philosphy in my opinion.
I first want to see if BA's entry requirements.

But the bigger picture here is are you really going to accept the offer of 28k having fronted the money for the TR. Yes they may pay it back over time, but you will have a 7.5K interest bill to pay over that time.
Any I 'assume' they will renew your contract for the following summer - or is a perm arrangement?
It maybe an EasyJet one season deal in sheeps clothing....leaving you with a 23K bill.

Come on, they will need pilots very soon. Don't spoil it and delay the better T's&C's.
Mind you, while everyone else gets away with only taking on 200hr bods, what it the bl@@dy point?

Thanks BALPA you toothless wazzoks!
I just hope that when you newbies have 3-5 years under your belt, this happens to you. Not getting a job because you have too much TT isn't cricket.

Had the telephone interview 2 weeks ago but no indication if Im through to the next round. Going to give them a call this week. But wandering if there is many of you in the same situation, as rumoured all interview slots been taken up, so whats going on.

Cheers

mint
757 TR just under 500 Hr on type 1200 TT

Papi-74,
I don't see HUGE changes and improvements in my crystal ball and I will accept the 28K indeed.
Moreover I am very happy to start my Jet2 engines

It was, I suppose, inevitable that J2 would go down this route re recruitment but I still can't help thinking it's a shame. There are about 20 experienced, qualified and current pilots about to be let go by Viking within the next few weeks to my knowledge. In any normal profession they would be seen as excellent candidates. In the past in aviation they would have been seen as excellent candidates. But will J2 see them this way? I doubt it. These days with some outfits it seems you are only useful until your money runs out then its on to the next batch.

Some rumours of experienced, but non type rated chaps who politely declined to pay for a TR, now receiving a second phone call to discuss alternative ways forward??

I know of 8 colleagues who have all turned down the £25k for a £28 grand job so far. All in the 2000 - 6000 hour TP/Jet experience bracket..

Here's a thought for Jet2, how about experienced, type rated people?
Like mintflavour above, had the initial phone call but it's all gone quiet (9000+ with 4500+ on type)

Not a revenue source so am not surprised.

Jet 2 Phone call
 

Had an telephone interview half an hour ago.
I'm a Dash 8 driver just shy of 3000 hours so I wonder if they're serious.

Questions where:

What are your salary expectations?
What base would you like?
Can you pay for your own bond?
Why do you want to work for Jet2?
What could you bring to Jet2?

And then said he'd pass the answers to someone else and get back to me.

Hope this helps

The deal is a rubbish one even by modern standards.

They are chancing their arm. Trying to "hedge" employment costs in advance as the market starts to improve.

To get an interview they need 4 Yes ticks:

1) Will pay £25K for rating.
2) Will accept garbage salary based on some 70% nonsense.
3) Available to start within 4-6 weeks.
4) Will relocate wherever, whenever.

The biggest dissapointment being the pilot characters doing the telephone interviews. Why get involved in a project that helps the employer dumb down T&c's even further?

hello, i had my phone interview yesterday and i was wondering if you could tell me when did they tell you that you had passed after the phone interview? in one-two days? a week maybe?

you know if people who didn´t pass , received the answer inmediately, even one-two hours after?

thanks in advance

Telephone interview
 

Got a telephone interview yesterday 1500z:

- Are u ready to sponsor your TR? No (and she told me "I understand your point")
- Are u ready to move to Scotland in short time? No

After these 2 questions the lady told me that "market management" requires TR to be self-sponsored.
Told I would have been advised of result.
Received a "no thanks" e-mail today.
That's all folks.
Good luck to all!