LSM, "agitprop" means the old Soviet practice of agitation and propaganda, one of the methods by which their overseas agencies tried to spread communism throughout the world.

Or put another way, sticking your oar in where it doesnt belong and trying to stir up dissent and wind everyone up. Modern day, think of anarchist scumbags trying to hijack student fees demo and turn it into a riot.

On the other hand I like assymetricdrifts suggestion. Does anyone know a cheap snatch team?

BACon issue resolved in favour of the flight crew, posted on Balpa's company forum this morning. Still more :ugh: things that could completely banjax this though

six-sixty, you don't have to read my comments if they're winding you up. You're free to ignore.

As it is the company can afford to be more generous, you deserve more but if this offer is accepted then you are selling yourselves way too short.

I hope you're not considering a yes vote so you don't appear to be too militant. If it takes dissent and a more aggressive stance then so be it. It'll stop the company walking all over you again and again and again and again. You have the perfect opportunity to put an end to it. Don't let it pass.

So far they have squashed the threat of IA with a lesser offer than was originally asked for by Balpa. Seems to me the company are winning, still.

I don't think LSM or any other outsider is trying to stir anything up - but it can/does take an outsider(s) to be able to take a detatched view and simply suggest that your demands have not been met - period - and furthermore, those of you who are naive enough to deem this offer as acceptable in the hope that French will be gernerous (and he hasn't with this one) in any future negotiation are urinating into a very strong wind.

Judge is right - demands not met, French pretending to care, - none of it adds up. We are still in a strong position but will give it away if we vote 'yes'. Then there will be more dissatisfaction when we realise how we have been shafted, again, and more whingeing. Not a good place to be. But all pilots whinge, all workers whinge, but I don't think many professionals whinge. We need a deal that encourages professionalism.

six-sixty.

Totally agree with you.


And to be honest, I think that when the next negotiations come in 18 months, then we´ll be in a really good position to ask for a lot of things. The fleet will have quite a few more e-jets, they might already have a european deal by that time, and most of all the economy should be growing faster and people should be getting jobs around the country instead of loosing them, and will be SPENDING money. THEN! you can negotiate a proper deal.

I think this has gone on for far too long, and if we say NO to another "strongly recommended" offer (agreed that the first one was a joke) then I don´t think there´s much room for more negotiation and come back to the table saying oh actually turns out we liked it yesterday but not today. It´s going to seem like BALPA don´t have a clue of what we want, and everything is going to feel like a joke. And I too agree with the fact that voting for strike might not get us very far, in fact it might backfire big time....but hey what do I know....

It´ll be a YES from me, enjoy my backpay with a nice holiday, enjoy my 5% increase this winter (yes I will enjoy it and it will make a difference), and will plan to spend it on my 60 hour weekends. Let´s just freaking close this chapter and start thinking about the next one....it´s actually starting to get really boring to hear the same moooooooooooaning all the time.....:ugh:

That "can't be bothered/bored with/just want my back pay" attitude is exactly how to get the best deal.......for the company.

You are NOW in a really good position to ask for a lot of things. Strangely you're not asking though. You are about to accept a worse deal than Balpa originally asked for. That is the product of 18 months of negotiating. What makes you think that the next 18 months will be more succesful? Sadly I think you are setting a precedent for future negotiations if you accept this offer.

Just to reiterate. Flybe have just made their biggest profit ever, in the middle of a recession.

Are you implying that the current deal isn't a "proper" one? Yet you are still going to accept it?!

Flybe pilots will never be in as strong a position again, certainly not for a very long time. Make use of it.

The 'take it for an easy life' attitude is rather depressing to read. I hope some never get involved in long-term or strategic planning for a living because the end of next week seems to be the extent of their forward view.:{

Sorry.... I have bit my tongue too long. Yes I am no longer Flybe but have a vested interest and many friends there.
Just saying 'Grow some' is a bit rude but judge11 puts it very well. If you have principals ...stick to them.
Good luck

oops looks like someone hasn't seen the news...been on holiday old chap? (BA are recruiting no one gives a dam)

........but the majority of you will still be working for flybe for the foreseeable future so best you get the best possible deal for those remaining. All of you busily putting your BA applications together may think 'you' are god's gift to aviation; BA may have other ideas so plan for that event.

I didn't know it was a requirement. Did I miss part of the application?:ooh:

All gone quiet while the ballot takes place ( and BA applications are filled in).
Lots of umming as to whether this is the start of a new improved management attitude?
Can a leopard change it's spots??
How many loop holes will they find in the new agreements, if passed?
The longer it takes the more doubts people seem to have.
Surely doubts = no??
Thoughts??

You guys need to get with the program.

The company has not made big profits, its all gone, nowt left
due to bad weather and Iceland scewing us over (again).

Those that pontificate about standing firm and all that bs,
what a load of crock, we are NOW in the best position by
accepting this deal, we have shown the mismanagement
they cant push us around, lets get our ducks in a row
for the real fight, in 18 months time. :E

Poor soul, you obviously dont get out much :=

Its a serious issue son, if you have nowt to add, say nowt!

Well you obviously know nothing about business spouting drivel like that.
Underlying profit, is just that, before being used for right offs, but thats
too hard for your little brain no doubt.
Look, we have to get over this, agree to the deal which the CC have
worked damn hard on, then give the mismanagment another kick
in the nuts in 18 months time, you know it makes sense, well maybe
you cannot understand it as you seem to be deviod of basic business
sense. I can suggest 'business for dummies', my misses vouches for it... :ugh:

For goodness sake son, you need to grow a pair.
Your retort showed your lack of knowledge, if you
cannot accept that without responding with insults
then thats your problem, not mine!

Back to the issue in hand, vote YES for a bright future,
next time round the CC will have the mismanagment where
we want them.

Not at all son, backbone intact!

So we get less days off than the average worker? Doubt it!
And we get more holidays too, other than Teachers perhaps!

I do not think this is a bad deal, its the best we can get at
this time, we need to draw the line somewhere, and you should
also be aware if it is rejected, New Road will NOT support a strike,
perhaps some IA, but a strike, no chance.

Regroup and fight another day, we have the upper hand. :ok:

Leg old son, you make me smile if you want to vote yes do so! But if you want a life before 2016 you won't have a leg to stand on ;)

Two good legs to stand on thanks son :p Maybe getting a little knackered now though, its the knees you know... :uhoh:

Lots of private messages thanking me for speaking the truth, thank you
everyone, no need to message me, just mark a X at YES :D

Well, I'm going to put my neck on the line here and say that I've actually voted in favour of this deal.

I don't like the scheduling side of it as it relies on too much good will being risked in order to get good will back (and as far as I recall, this has never happened!). And also the agreement uses terms which are open to incredible amounts of interpretation, and leave gaping holes in our defence. BUT... we do have the ace card here. If the company do not live up to these rules that they have set, then in 6 months time, then we can ballot for the strike then, on the idea that the agreement has been broken, or was never intended in the first place.

In reality, the pay side of things - well how much do you want? We all want more... and not a single one of us would turn down a 15% payrise if we were offered it? But is it correct? No. It's not... When the initial ballots came out, most of us said "We want RPI". So we get an offer at RPI, and now people are saying that it isn't enough. We'll never be able to extract more than 2% for the year that we've lost - there's no chance that will ever budge. I don't like next year being capped, but there's going to be little chance of getting that to budge too.

But we've also got to consider the Holiday pay which will add another little bit onto our figures too.

I'll be the first person to be critical of financial incentives offered to directors and high up management and the company. But in this case, we asked for an RPI linked payrise, and that's what we got.

It takes good will from both sides to make this work, let's just hope that it is shown from the company. If it's not, then we ballot for the strike and hit them then. It will give us a much firmer ground than the one we are on right now!

Enjoy the next 5 years. Losers.

Very mature.

Our terms and conditions are not going to go from second or third rate to BOAC overnight. If viewed in the context of an incremental improvement it is a fair (albeit not stellar) deal. As previously stated, if in six months time we - the union - are not satisfied that the company are adhering to the agreement, we can vote for IA.

When we go back to negotiate in eighteen months time I imagine we will find the management more willing to engage in meaningful talks. If not I will be looking to the CC to get tough a lot quicker than they have done this time around.

What you on about second or third rate?! It's fourth at best.

Just wait until all the FO's leave and your flying with a load of spotty MPL holders. Then it'll be fifth rate. Like I say Enjoy it! I'm sure half of you can find some positives in all this.

Also it's going to be good fun flying with Thomas cook B757 FOs I'm sure they'll have a good laugh at the flymaybe T&C's...

I don't see how flying with some MPLs affects terms and conditions.

What do you want? Three days off and a disruption payment after flying with one?!

No I just dont like the idea of the stick shaker going off every other sector, taking off with the wrong flap setting, alt busts, not being paid to act as a TRI, bleeds off at FL100, gear down in the cruise, flap 35 go arounds etc

Look son, if you feel that MPL holders are in any way unsafe then
address your concerns to the CAA, they would like to hear from you... No? Didn't think so, you would rather come on here and spout hogwash.

Good to see some sensible responses to my common sense.

Time to stand up and be counted and take control of our own destiny.

Have we recently had a bellend-specific recruitment drive? The quality of this thread appears to have nosedived.

So anyone want to hazard a guess as to when DEP might get a call from HR? :hmm:

Complete speculation but at a guess DEC Sept 2012

DEC? You sure speedrestriction?

SpeedRestriction is right about Sept, I heard a massive rumour stating the same, but DEP of course :O

Okay, thanks for that. But puhleeease say, it was a typing error and September this year? :eek:

I'll be voting in favour of the deal. It's probably as good as we're gonna get. I doubt it can get any more fatiguing to be honest, and any improvement is something in the current economic climate.

Mine went in the post today. :)

As good as we can get, for now.

Its up to us (not the people on this thread who do not even belong
to the flybe family), to get a CC elected who will fight for the
improvements we deserve at the next pay talks.

This company has expansion plans, just read through the
info which PBM's have provided in the crew rooms, you will see
that Flybe Nordic alone will be nearly the size of the UK operation
in as little as 3 or 4 years. There are other deals in the pipeline
too.

By accepting this offer we are seen as team players, but then we
can get our ducks in a row for the next talks, the economy will
be improving by then, other airlines will be recruiting, everything will
be in our favour, right now the environment favours the mismanagement.

Vote YES, but if you have not by now you are too darn late!

My guess is Winter this year
 

I have no specific info from the inside other than as a line pilot I know the majority of FO's/SFO's I am acquainted with and a moderate % of Captains have been polishing their application forms for BA. As other carriers open their doors too this Winter I would expect an significant number of current Flybe pilots to apply to Easy/exec jets/charters etc.

On this basis I think it highly likely we will be reopening the doors to recruitment this year, however I wouldn't expect many DEC's because there a huge number of command ready FO's already here so expect recruitment to be FO level only

[quotewill fight for the
improvements we deserve at the next pay talks.
][/quote]
As mentioned above it's a real shame to be accepting this derisory offer when you are already looking ahead to when it can be improved. Do you honestly think that by rolling over now at the first sign of actually having to do anything other than put a cross in a box you are sendig a message to the management which says you won't be messed with? Or are you in effect saying that you're a weak group so string us along for a while then make the offer you no doubt had in mind from day one.

Do you honestly think that having not accepted any offers until now management think you are 'team players'.!!!! Do you think they care at all? Given your sceduling agreement I would think not. And common sense would contradict your argument re future recruitment. If I ran a small airline where people traditionally moved up to bigger and better things I would address the package now to try and stop people even looking. But Flybe is a training airline in the management eyes, always has been and will be so I suspect you'll find they won't care what the market does.

DP I hope you're right. But given the level of respect you have been shown by management, and given that it will be generally skippers who leave first as better airlines snap up your experienced guys, don't be surprised to find that there is a need for Captains immediately, leading to DEC recruitment to fill the gap.

Anyone who thinks that the crew have scored a victory here is an apologist. Flybe are making a fortune, buying up airlines where the crews earn a lot more, and keeping you on low pay. Whilst the management reward themselves massively. Now I accept they take the risks hence they have a right to better remuneration, but come one, where does it stop when JF earns more than Willie Walsh. BA pilots wouldn't stand for what you do, grow some backbone for your own sakes.

What a load of drivel :mad:

Like I said, ignore the uniformed tosh from people outside.

The future is bright, the future is a sky blue colour... :p

(Good luck to those that want to go to BA, Easy etc,
but it will be f/o's they recruit, maybe younger Capts,
the crusties are going no where, so I am bugg@red). :*

Leg your an idiot. Bet your based up in Inverness, shaft everyone else keep your cushy lifestyle. I hope the company close these pointless bases.